trial thread: 3/13/2012

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Even with this testimony there will be those who will still believe in the innocence of the defendant. Was Rafferty a chauffeur to TLM that day or did he want a little girl for his sexual pleasure knowing that she would have to be disposed of? I think the latter. JMO
 
images


I can't even express what I really want to say, but ...

Tori, you beautiful gift from God, you are everyone's child -- we love you sweet girl. RIP angel.
 
Cross examination should be interesting. I wonder what MR will confirm/deny.

Thinking back to the earlier days in this case, I wonder if the following will come up:

-TLM walking her dog the day before, past the school.
-Other attemped abductions in southwestern ontario just days prior April 8
-the back seat and its location????
 
matou said:
Even with this testimony there will be those who will still believe in the innocence of the defendant. Was Rafferty a chauffeur to TLM that day or did he want a little girl for his sexual pleasure knowing that she would have to be disposed of? I think the latter. JMO
Click to expand...

The fact that he's sitting there and having Tori's family relive this nightmare is just evil.

I have to admit I am somewhat shocked that TLM killed her. I was convinced he had a part in her murder. Not saying he's innocent because he is just as guilty for his part (if what TLM is saying is true) but my God, how could she? How could she do that to an innocent child?
 
just got home and caught up. So sad for Tori.. So much horror she had to feel before they killed her.

The case is heading it seems ( Imo) in the direction of him not knowing and it was TLM up until the end ( Could it be possible ) . His story will be complete reverse of TLM's details of the event. From what i gather so far there is NOT much physical evidence for MR and the crowns case is based on TLMs confession

As for the physical evidence on MR could it all be explained as MR being the unknowning boyfriend, who gets wrapped up in something that went seriously wrong?

Did any report mention if MR had a criminal record and what for if he did?
 
Thanks to those of you who posted the tweets. I was trying to read them from work, but couldn't log in. So hard to read. :(

I realize one of the articles posted earlier says the blows to the ribs and liver could have been fatal, and that MR said they couldn't keep Tori or bring her home, but I don't see where the crown is going with this: TLM says she placed the bag over Tori's head and used the hammer, so how does that implicate MR?

I am not a lawyer, but I'm not sure how this testimony helps with their case against MR. It is still early in the trial though. I hope there is evidence to convict him on all counts.
 
brighidin said:
Thanks to those of you who posted the tweets. I was trying to read them from work, but couldn't log in. So hard to read. :(

I realize one of the articles posted earlier says the blows to the ribs and liver could have been fatal, and that MR said they couldn't keep Tori or bring her home, but I don't see where the crown is going with this: TLM says she placed the bag over Tori's head and used the hammer, so how does that implicate MR?
I am not a lawyer, but I'm not sure how this testimony helps with their case against MR. It is still early in the trial though. I hope there is evidence to convict him on all counts.
Click to expand...

He was there!
 
brighidin said:
Thanks to those of you who posted the tweets. I was trying to read them from work, but couldn't log in. So hard to read. :(

I realize one of the articles posted earlier says the blows to the ribs and liver could have been fatal, and that MR said they couldn't keep Tori or bring her home, but I don't see where the crown is going with this: TLM says she placed the bag over Tori's head and used the hammer, so how does that implicate MR?

I am not a lawyer, but I'm not sure how this testimony helps with their case against MR. It is still early in the trial though. I hope there is evidence to convict him on all counts.
Click to expand...

Accessory to murder qualifies for 1st degree murder charge. If they can prove he was there when Tori was murdered, he is just as guilty as TLM. They will have proof of all charges including rape. I have no doubt. IMO
 
matou said:
Even with this testimony there will be those who will still believe in the innocence of the defendant. Was Rafferty a chauffeur to TLM that day or did he want a little girl for his sexual pleasure knowing that she would have to be disposed of? I think the latter. JMO
Click to expand...

I believe he did it but I can see the defence's case in my mind before it unravels ( Him being the chauffeur and not knowing ) and unless the crown has serious physical evidence against MR showing he was involved willing.


MY Opinion only Nothing creditable below this NOT REAL JUST A POSSIBLE SENERIO

Is it possible ( I DOUBT IT ) that he was with TLM that day and hanging out and TLM started this whole series of events and she was the twisted person who planned it in her mind an led MR along for the ride.

They could say MR and TLM were hanging out getting high and TLM asked MR to drive her to the school to pick up her friends kid that she had to babysit and since TLM had possibly already knew Tori , went to that school and saw Tori and started talking to her, told her to come with her for whatever reason and Tori knowing TLM went along willingly since from what we have gotten so far, no one witnessed Tori being pulled/dragged ect into that car.

Once in the car, TLM tells MR that she has to go to Guelph to pick up some prescriptions and they head that way, stop at timmys for driving drinks and proceed to wherever TLM needed to go in Guelph, MR figures since he is in Guelph he will see if he can get more drugs and calls up a friend to get them, He arranges for it and heads there and gets his drugs ..

At this point im not sure how it would have transpired but maybe TLM decided she wanted to kill/rape Tori ( There are some sick people in this world and nothing would surprise me ). Maybe she convinced him to drive this way and that way and ended up by chance where they were or had been there before.

Maybe when they parked the car, TLM told Tori they were going to look at the area and TLM went off in a rage on Tori.. and at this point MR is already involved unknownlingly ...

Anyways I been on the road all day driving to Toronto and got to listen atleast to most of the trial on the radio updates, and caught up here and just wanted to throw a possible senerio out there of what its possible defence might be
 
~n/t~ said:
Accessory to murder qualifies for 1st degree murder charge. If they can prove he was there when Tori was murdered, he is just as guilty as TLM. They will have proof of all charges including rape. I have no doubt. IMO
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't know that. Thank you for answering my question ~n/t~.

ETA: Thanks as well, flipflop. I didn't know that accesory to murder qualifies as 1st degree. That's why I was asking.
 
The Crown alleges McClintic and Rafferty kidnapped Tori outside her elementary school in Woodstock, Ont., and drove her more than 100 kilometres north to a rural area, where they say she was sexually assaulted and killed.

Tori's body was found naked from the waist down in garbage bags under a pile of rocks in a field near Mount Forest, Ont. She died from multiple blows to the head with a hammer, but she also had blunt injuries to her body that lacerated her liver and fractured her ribs injuries that could have been fatal on their own, court has heard.
Click to expand...

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/72348/Convicted-killer-takes-the-stand
 
brighidin said:
Ah, I didn't know that. Thank you for answering my question ~n/t~.

ETA: Thanks as well, flipflop. I didn't know that accesory to murder qualifies as 1st degree. That's why I was asking.
Click to expand...

Gowdey said Rafferty will also be linked to the crime through DNA evidence found in his car, and records of calls made from his Blackberry that were relayed by a cell tower near the crime scene. The jury will also hear about the close relationship between Rafferty and McClintic before and after the Tori’s abduction.

Gowdey said the jury will not have to decide who actually killed Tori, only that McClintic and Rafferty act together in commiting the crime.
Click to expand...

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2012/03/05/michael-rafferty-trial-updates
 
myzzy said:
I believe he did it but I can see the defence's case in my mind before it unravels ( Him being the chauffeur and not knowing ) and unless the crown has serious physical evidence against MR showing he was involved willing.


MY Opinion only Nothing creditable below this NOT REAL JUST A POSSIBLE SENERIO

Is it possible ( I DOUBT IT ) that he was with TLM that day and hanging out and TLM started this whole series of events and she was the twisted person who planned it in her mind an led MR along for the ride.

They could say MR and TLM were hanging out getting high and TLM asked MR to drive her to the school to pick up her friends kid that she had to babysit and since TLM had possibly already knew Tori , went to that school and saw Tori and started talking to her, told her to come with her for whatever reason and Tori knowing TLM went along willingly since from what we have gotten so far, no one witnessed Tori being pulled/dragged ect into that car.

Once in the car, TLM tells MR that she has to go to Guelph to pick up some prescriptions and they head that way, stop at timmys for driving drinks and proceed to wherever TLM needed to go in Guelph, MR figures since he is in Guelph he will see if he can get more drugs and calls up a friend to get them, He arranges for it and heads there and gets his drugs ..

At this point im not sure how it would have transpired but maybe TLM decided she wanted to kill/rape Tori ( There are some sick people in this world and nothing would surprise me ). Maybe she convinced him to drive this way and that way and ended up by chance where they were or had been there before.

Maybe when they parked the car, TLM told Tori they were going to look at the area and TLM went off in a rage on Tori.. and at this point MR is already involved unknownlingly ...

Anyways I been on the road all day driving to Toronto and got to listen atleast to most of the trial on the radio updates, and caught up here and just wanted to throw a possible senerio out there of what its possible defence might be
Click to expand...

Your senerio is possible, but I think they BOTH planned it and BOTH carried it out. As for who did what, does it really matter as they were both present!

I believe that both MR and TLM talked about abducting a girl for MR's sexual purpose. MR being the manipulator that he is, talked TLM into helping him out with this plan, and TLM agreed to do anything her newly found boyfriend wanted. After all, she seemed to want to do anything to please this guy who was giving her attention. When the time came, whether she had second thoughts on carrying it out or not does not matter, as she did go through with it. I think the original plan was to rape her, but murder was not talked about. I have a feeling that MR did the raping and TLM was told to murder her as they couldn't let her go. She then went into a rage as he was making her do so.
 
Sailor Bug said:
Thanks n/t

OMG I WAS McClintic who actually kicked Tori while Tori was on the ground

From your link
Later, McClintic told the court that she started kicking Tori in the field
Click to expand...

Yes and she put the garbage bag over her head and brutally hitting her over the head with the hammer. :tears:
 
~n/t~ said:
The fact that he's sitting there and having Tori's family relive this nightmare is just evil.

I have to admit I am somewhat shocked that TLM killed her. I was convinced he had a part in her murder. Not saying he's innocent because he is just as guilty for his part (if what TLM is saying is true) but my God, how could she? How could she do that to an innocent child?
Click to expand...

BBM

Actually I am not shocked that it was TLM...at all. I think the key thing TLM was attempting to get across today was that she felt she had do something to end it. She knew that Victoria had to die. They couldn't keep her and they couldn't let her go. She likely knew that MR wasn't going to be able to do it. She ended the repeated sexual assaults and the whole ordeal really by being the person to take on the task of killing her. I'm not sure actually, if all that we heard about MR's "sensitivity" and weepiness is correct, that he could have done it himself. He may have had this fantasy but he needed someone with that extra "rage" factor to help him carry it through. I guess you could say he found the perfect partner in TLM. I said a long time ago that separately these two were likely somewhat harmless but together they were deadly. Their meeting was the perfect storm of perversion and evil.

You know I thought I was ready for this testimony today. I wasn't.

MOO
 
Kamille said:
BBM

Actually I am not shocked that it was TLM...at all. I think the key thing TLM was attempting to get across today was that she felt she had do something to end it. She knew that Victoria had to die. They couldn't keep her and they couldn't let her go. She likely knew that MR wasn't going to be able to do it. She ended the repeated sexual assaults and the whole ordeal really by being the person to take on the task of killing her. I'm not sure actually, if all that we heard about MR's "sensitivity" and weepiness is correct, that he could have done it himself. He may have had this fantasy but he needed someone with that extra "rage" factor to help him carry it through. I guess you could say he found the perfect partner in TLM. I said a long time ago that separately these two were likely somewhat harmless but together they were deadly. Their meeting was the perfect storm of perversion and evil.

You know I thought I was ready for this testimony today. I wasn't.

MOO
Click to expand...

I wasn't either. I don't know how Tori's family can stomach it. I know this is not the first time they hear this because they've already been through it when TLM confessed but it must be unbearable to have to listen to it again.

I keep thinking of Daryn. They were so close. I just want to hug him. :cry:
 
I'm just horrified and sick over everything that was said today. I just read through all the tweets again and I'm not so sure Tori was even alive when TLM hit her with the hammer. I see tweets that say she was laying motionless on the ground but then I see another tweet that says Tori yelled for help. <modsnip> Chances are we will never know what really happened. I hope to god neither one of them ever gets out of prison.

I was thinking today that there is nothing we can do for Tori and nothing to make her family feel better. But we CAN do our best to force the government to change the laws about this. I encourage all of you to start phoning and writing your MP's and MPP's to let them know how you feel about this. It would take a lot of calls and letters but it really might help.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 164 more.
Total: 4,037 (members: 165, guests: 3,872)

Online statistics

Members online
165
Guests online
3,872
Total visitors
4,037
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,582
Messages
17,971,328
Members
228,829
Latest member
LitWiz
Back
Top