Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[matou]

We'll likely find out lots of interesting info about TLM and MR after the jury is called to deliberate. The publication ban will be lifted any info that was thrown out will be out there. JMO

 

[Ardy]

A lot of healing to be done for so many people over this case on both sides of the family fence. Truly terrible. These two have caused a lot of pain. The type of pain no human being should have to bear. MOO

Every action a person takes has a ripple affect on the people that care about them. JMO

Very well said, and I enjoy your posts and everyone else's posts.....as it provides an interesting exchange of thoughts.

I am always cognizant of the reason we are here, but still believe we have a duty to ensure the guilty are punished and the innocent are set free.

JMO.......

 

[OhSoCurious]

maybe one day TLM will miraculously find a conscience and tell the truth about the rape part...who knows it has happened before especially in other cases....JMO

Maybe if she ever has a child of her own, she might understand better what that could possibly mean to Tori's family. MOO

 

[flipflop]

I'm posting specifically about the rape charges. MOO

With finding VS naked below the waist, TLM's story, and finding a mixture of MR and VS on the door moulding....all leads me to believe that she was raped...I wish it didn't happen, but this leads me to think it did. JMO I guess we will see what way the jury thinks on this topic very soon.

 

[Tahorn]

For the record........I presume MR is innocent, but I really don't know.

If he is found guilty by the jury, I am fine with that.

JMO.

For me it isn't that I believe MR is innocent, after all a child died and his careless and reckless lifestyle was directly connected ... 1st degree different story though ...

I do not believe TLM, and since there is no evidence to say he raped vs, then I couldn't convict him of it. Before you all jump down my throat ... There is evidence but nothing that could be explained in an alternative senario ... There me for reasonable doubt ...

Without the sexually motivation then is no motive to warrant 1st degree

 

[tmhco]

For me it isn't that I believe MR is innocent, after all a child died and his careless and reckless lifestyle was directly connected ... 1st degree different story though ...

I do not believe TLM, and since there is no evidence to say he raped vs, then I couldn't convict him of it. Before you all jump down my throat ... There is evidence but nothing that could be explained in an alternative senario ... There me for reasonable doubt ...

Without the sexually motivation then is no motive to warrant 1st degree

Those alternate scenarios must be reasonable. I have heard nothing reasonable myself that explains why his seat was missing, why VS had no lower garments and why she was kidnapped in the first place. JMO

 

[CarrieBean]

.....off the trial topic....there is a wonderful postive page dedicated to Victoria Strafford on fb ...and it stresses postive feelings about this case that has torn at many hearts of many people...especially us in Ontario.... including mine & I am sure many others here...I thought you all may get a smile of what was posted on the weekend asking us what song reminds us of Tori and this case ...I wrote The greatest Love of All by whitney houstin as it reminds me of teaching young children like tori...a few secs after I posted I read a beautiful post form >>>>Tori's mom >>>...Tara ..she said Tori loved Shania Twan and could recognize her songs in 10 secs and sang along....Tori fav song by her was " UP"...i could evision our little Angel Tori ...dance away to the UP BEAT and singing LOUDLY ...full of spirit ...bubbly , full of ernergy Tori! ...may God bless her ....she is safe in heaven...I hope this makes you all smile as it did ....Me...robynhood!

Do you have the link for the site, robynhood?

 

[Sailor Bug]

None of us know much more than the tweets we have here...or newspapers with the latest headlines

Perhaps we have friend/friends who have actually been in the courtroom where personal testimony has a louder voice

where human characteristics portray a more vivid individuality...than a few tweeted words here and there

Perhaps some of us searched for Tori out in the cold rain...hoping Praying that Tori would be found...safe

One thing for certain we are all here for Tori Stafford and JUSTICE

I do believe the Crown has proven Rafferty's Guilt. jmo

I sincerely appreciate everyone's views and just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone.

 

[gardenia]

The most troubling aspect of this case (IMO) is that it is too dependent upon TLM's "word" & she is a proven liar, killer & some type of psychopath/sociopath.

It worries me to no end that our government, the Crown, has put so much trust in a person like TLM!

 

[snoofer]

The most troubling aspect of this case (IMO) is that it is too dependent upon TLM's "word" & she is a proven liar, killer & some type of psychopath/sociopath.

It worries me to no end that our government, the Crown, has put so much trust in a person like TLM!

jail house snitching has always been a part of criminal justice. MOO

 

[Ardy]

I have to wonder why he was muttering at the topic of the "clean up" at the car wash after the murder? What's the deal? She changed her clothes and shoes, his shoes were at her house in her closet. She described the shorts she wore and police found them. She threw out the Shaq shoes and those were recovered. The Shaq shoes are on her feet at the Home Depot. There was obviously a clean up after the murder. I remember an ex-gf testified that he knew about car washes in the area. JMO

I don't think TLM's testimony is true regarding the car wash and store.

There is no way that LE couldn't have found it. All they had to do was talk to the list of newspaper delivery guys and show them the picture or they could put a picture on the front page of all the TO papers and it would have been found by a reader.

So.........I think they threw the clothing out somewhere.......but TLM was so drugged up that she has no clue where.............

JMO.........

 

[Flowercb]

Wow, what a day - I feel like a weight has been lifted. The Crown was relentless, just like I'd hoped they would be.

The only other trial I've followed this closely was the Colonel, and there wasn't much of a defence there as he plead guilty. I find, looking back, it's easy to see how well planned and executed the prosecution was. Like an orchestra.

There were times when I would wonder "why aren't they asking this?" or "why are they spending so much time on this?" They were sort of matter of fact, no great 'aha!' Sherlock Holmes moments - but now by pulling it altogether once, and giving it context, I think it makes for a very big impact. Very big. Like one-of-those-battering rams-they-use-to-knock-down-castle-doors-in-movies big.

Also interesting is his poor impulse control, rolling his eyes, muttering under his breath. Next he'll be stamping his feet and saying he doesn't want to play anymore.

He couldn't fool Mr. Crown Attorney like he fooled so many others in his life. MOO!! So he stomps his feet!!! MOO!!

 

[Ardy]

No where does this information indicate that she pled because she thought LE had the hammer. If that information cannot be substantiated, it needs to be removed.

Thanks,

Salem

You got it snipped before I could delete it........thanks.

 

[OhSoCurious]

The most troubling aspect of this case (IMO) is that it is too dependent upon TLM's "word" & she is a proven liar, killer & some type of psychopath/sociopath.

It worries me to no end that our government, the Crown, has put so much trust in a person like TLM!

It's basically all they had Gardenia. Otherwise it is overwhelming supposition. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't think TLM's testimony is true regarding the car wash and store.

There is no way that LE couldn't have found it. All they had to do was talk to the list of newspaper delivery guys and show them the picture or they could put a picture on the front page of all the TO papers and it would have been found by a reader.

So.........I think they threw the clothing out somewhere.......but TLM was so drugged up that she has no clue where.............

JMO.........

Sorry Ardy ... show the delivery guys the picture of what? I know you mentioned this before, and I forgot to ask you back then. Tx

 

[Ardy]

Still wondering why you feel so stongly he did not do it? Very curious...

With all the evidence in........I don't know that MR is innocent, and I doubt the jury will either.

What I will wrestle with is if the Crown have proved his guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt".

At this point...........I might be at "likely guilty" or even higher.........but I have to hear the Judge to fully understand where lies the threshold of guilt.

What I am surprised at is how early in the trial, some people had already reached that high threshold.

That is fine for them.........but doesn't work for me.

JMO........

 

[Heliotrope]

The most troubling aspect of this case (IMO) is that it is too dependent upon TLM's "word" & she is a proven liar, killer & some type of psychopath/sociopath.

It worries me to no end that our government, the Crown, has put so much trust in a person like TLM!

Really? I think they're putting their faith in cold, hard evidence - lots of it.

I find it comforting, when you compare Bernardo/Homolka with this case - she didn't get a sweetheart deal, out of some dated assumption that women could never be so cruel. She's paying - no concessions, no breaks.

I wonder if the 'deal with a devil' isn't a standard case study in first year law now. Never again.

 

[Tahorn]

Those alternate scenarios must be reasonable. I have heard nothing reasonable myself that explain why his seats was missing, why VS had no lower garments and why she was kidnapped in the first place. JMO

My daughters boyfriend doesn't have a back seat, he has speakers too ... More common then one would think ...

My 7 year neice old took her tights off to go pee on a road trip because the first time she tried she fell back ... The tights too tight around the ankles to get her balance ... Tights off, shoes came off too ... It was funny at the time watching her struggle to try to put them back on ... But now when I think about my thought go to VS.

As far as the kidnapping, TLM was a gang member, reputation is everything, she was a junkie and a vindictive psychopath ... $400 would be reason enough to kidnap the child ... But when MR didn't agree VS became a liability ...

Someone was killed over the comment "who the he// are you"
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/A...+want+kill+Philbert+Truong/2910968/story.html

 

[Ardy]

Sorry Ardy ... show the delivery guys the picture of what? I know you mentioned this before, and I forgot to ask you back then. Tx

Did I say picture......I meant drawing. I believe TLM supplied a drawing of how the car wash and store looked.

I also wonder at what point LE gave up on it........and why.

As I recall, a lot of people were angry when they called off the ground search.

JMO.....................

 

[Flowercb]

For me it isn't that I believe MR is innocent, after all a child died and his careless and reckless lifestyle was directly connected ... 1st degree different story though ...

I do not believe TLM, and since there is no evidence to say he raped vs, then I couldn't convict him of it. Before you all jump down my throat ... There is evidence but nothing that could be explained in an alternative senario ... There me for reasonable doubt ...

Without the sexually motivation then is no motive to warrant 1st degree

So you think Tori sat there obediently and didn't say a word when she was shoved into a car and driven out of town? MOO!