TRIAL Week One - Ross Harris 3 October 2016

[DexterMorgan]

Drink from the breast at 2 yr old? Now I see how you saved so much money raising your children.

Lol Smeck.

You got me. Lol.

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Hope4More]

I agree. I personally suspect he planned this, but I think it will be impossible for the prosecution to prove beyond doubt. I just don't think enough evidence will be there. But the second degree charge...I think it will be just as hard for the defense to refute that.

The very fact the defense has near an insurmountable hurdle in avoiding a conviction on second degree child cruelty is what drew me to this case to begin with.

Laws have consequences beyond how they're applied in any one case. Maybe Harris intended to kill Cooper, maybe he didn't. IMO the evidence isn't there to prove intent, but that's just an opinion, and one before much evidence has been presented.

But, what if Harris really did "forget" Cooper? What happens to the next parent in Georgia whose child dies the same kind of terrible death in a parent's car, but who wasn't sexting with a minor, or with anyone, who wasn't committing adultery, who received that promotion instead of being turned down, who was an exemplary employee and parent and spouse?

As it stands in Georgia, "forgetting" one's child in a hot car is a felony, no matter the circumstances, and having a child die as a result, even if the forgetting was genuinely accidental, can be charged and prosecuted and sentenced as felony murder, no intent of any kind required.

IMO giving that kind of power to the State, any state, is a mistake. There's just too much room for error, and for mistakes in judgement. It's exactly that kind of mistake in judgement, or rush to judgement, that I think may well have happened in Harris's case.

Would Harris have been removed from the scene instead of being allowed to stay near Cooper had he been weeping instead of pacing? Would LE have found him suspicious had he not sworn at them? Had they not found his behavior suspicious would they have searched his computers/phones looking for evidence to confirm their suspicions?

Would they have looked at the "evidence" they found on his computer s/phones in the same way if they had not already drawn conclusions, conclusions based on their interpretations of little or nothing more than his behavior?

And it cuts both ways. What's to say the next parent of a dead child in a hot car, who left their child on purpose and with malice, won't escape rightful scrutiny by LE simply because he or she knows how to act "normally" in that situation?

It's easy to dislike Ross Harris and to want to see him punished, no matter what one thinks happened. But, IMO that doesn't make the laws being used to bring him to justice just laws or justifiable. Jmo

 

[Hope4More]

... and Leanna at Little Aprons did:

Sometime after 4:51pm:

After LH made that infamous statement about how 'Ross must have left him in the car' when she found out Cooper was not dropped off at daycare. She then asked a male daycare worker to ride with her to RH work place (Home Depot, Treehouse location). Once she got there LE told her what happened to CH.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?248989-LeAnna-(Mom)-1/page27&p=10751925#post10751925

Isn't it telling, though, that Leanne showed far less emotion throughout than did Ross and had a noticeably "less normal" response than did Ross, from first hearing her baby was dead on through speaking with Ross after he was in custody? And yet she has been 100% cleared of any suspicion by LE, who looked very long and very hard at her indeed as possibly being involved.

The moral of that story IMO is that not demonstrating a response to Cooper's death the LE considered "normal" is clearly not evidence of guilt. Of either parent.


(climbs off soapbox..... )

 

[blue22]

The very fact the defense has near an insurmountable hurdle in avoiding a conviction on second degree child cruelty is what drew me to this case to begin with.

Laws have consequences beyond how they're applied in any one case. Maybe Harris intended to kill Cooper, maybe he didn't. IMO the evidence isn't there to prove intent, but that's just an opinion, and one before much evidence has been presented.

But, what if Harris really did "forget" Cooper? What happens to the next parent in Georgia whose child dies the same kind of terrible death in a parent's car, but who wasn't sexting with a minor, or with anyone, who wasn't committing adultery, who received that promotion instead of being turned down, who was an exemplary employee and parent and spouse?

As it stands in Georgia, "forgetting" one's child in a hot car is a felony, no matter the circumstances, and having a child die as a result, even if the forgetting was genuinely accidental, can be charged and prosecuted and sentenced as felony murder, no intent of any kind required.

IMO giving that kind of power to the State, any state, is a mistake. There's just too much room for error, and for mistakes in judgement. It's exactly that kind of mistake in judgement, or rush to judgement, that I think may well have happened in Harris's case.

Would Harris have been removed from the scene instead of being allowed to stay near Cooper had he been weeping instead of pacing? Would LE have found him suspicious had he not sworn at them? Had they not found his behavior suspicious would they have searched his computers/phones looking for evidence to confirm their suspicions?

Would they have looked at the "evidence" they found on his computer s/phones in the same way if they had not already drawn conclusions, conclusions based on their interpretations of little or nothing more than his behavior?

And it cuts both ways. What's to say the next parent of a dead child in a hot car, who left their child on purpose and with malice, won't escape rightful scrutiny by LE simply because he or she knows how to act "normally" in that situation?

It's easy to dislike Ross Harris and to want to see him punished, no matter what one thinks happened. But, IMO that doesn't make the laws being used to bring him to justice just laws or justifiable. Jmo

Hmm...I guess it depends on your perspective. I think every person whose child dies, because they forget should be charged with a crime. Of course, there are degrees to charges. I think Ross was enormously negligent and deserves the charges. Circumstances dictate what charges are brought. Do I think a sick parent who just got a medical treatment should be charged as harshly? No, I don't think circumstances validate that. I DO think they should be charged with something. Being sick does not and should not allow for negligence. I realize many wouldn't agree, but it's IMO. (And yes, if I ever "forgot" my child(ren,) I should be charged with a crime.)

 

[DexterMorgan]

Isn't it telling, though, that Leanne showed far less emotion throughout than did Ross and had a noticeably "less normal" response than did Ross, from first hearing her baby was dead on through speaking with Ross after he was in custody? And yet she has been 100% cleared of any suspicion by LE, who looked very long and very hard at her indeed as possibly being involved.

The moral of that story IMO is that not demonstrating a response to Cooper's death the LE considered "normal" is clearly not evidence of guilt. Of either parent.


(climbs off soapbox..... )

Agree. It seems like maybe she wanted out as well.

But I also agree that Ross should have been allowed bail since rapists and others get bail all of the time.

 

[amymarie]

Why are so many people arguing about whether or not it is expensive to raise a toddler? Have you all forgotten that he had TWO life insurance policies on Cooper? That's the financial motive.

 

[Hope4More]

Hmm...I guess it depends on your perspective. I think every person whose child dies, because they forget should be charged with a crime. Of course, there are degrees to charges. I think Ross was enormously negligent and deserves the charges. Circumstances dictate what charges are brought. Do I think a sick parent who just got a medical treatment should be charged as harshly? No, I don't think circumstances validate that. I DO think they should be charged with something. Being sick does not and should not allow for negligence. I realize many wouldn't agree, but it's IMO. (And yes, if I ever "forgot" my child(ren,) I should be charged with a crime.)

I think parental negligence that results in a child's death should be considered and charged as a crime, at least in virtually every circumstance I can imagine. Have no problem with that.


The problem I have is with laws that give the state discretion to charge and prosecute a child's accidental death as felony murder.

 

[PaperDoll]

If you listen to the podcast, the reporter does the drive around the same time of day as Harris. It took 4x's longer than what the detective said. The reporter was never able to get to the place where you turn left to daycare or go straight to work in the time the detective got. There was so much traffic plus he made a U turn, many distractions. Also the car seat was facing backwards. Harris is deaf in his right ear, the ear towards where the child sat. I think if people listen to the podcast they may see that the detectives are not being truthful and stretching facts to fit their case.

However, Ross has done this trip many times so he knows how to get around. Again, he didn't forget to take Cooper to CFA, why? Why all the sudden he forgets to take him to day care especially after the big production at CFA. I also don't believe Cooper fell asleep in that short amount of time either and no one knows this except Ross of course, but maybe Cooper wasn't being quiet, he may have been talking. I can't wrap my mind around Ross forgetting to take his son to daycare in that short amount of time. Why didn't Ross forget to go to work?

 

[smeck]

I think when a child dies accidentally from parental neglect in the incident, the appropriate charge should be felony murder. Its a child after all.

 

[colette]

However, Ross has done this trip many times so he knows how to get around. Again, he didn't forget to take Cooper to CFA, why? Why all the sudden he forgets to take him to day care especially after the big production at CFA. I also don't believe Cooper fell asleep in that short amount of time either and no one knows this except Ross of course, but maybe Cooper wasn't being quiet, he may have been talking. I can't wrap my mind around Ross forgetting to take his son to daycare in that short amount of time. Why didn't Ross forget to go to work?

Even though he has made this trip many times, the trip still takes longer than the LE says it does. If they have such a good case, why do they have to lie about many facts? That is the problem with this case. Also Harris usually went to CFA drive thru so things were different that day.

 

[PaperDoll]

Even though he has made this trip many times, the trip still takes longer than the LE says it does. If they have such a good case, why do they have to lie about many facts? That is the problem with this case. Also Harris usually went to CFA drive thru so things were different that day.

All the more reason to not forget your child if things were different. He had to strap him in the car seat etc and suddenly forgets? Sorry, I keep repeating myself because I guess I can't be convinced otherwise. Even if LE is saying it wasn't as long as it actually was, still not excuse to forget your child. Why did Ross forget him that day, a really hot day? Why was he searching the net on hot car deaths, then it actually happens to him. I would think common sense would tell someone to NOT leave a living creature in a hot car, why look it up to find out what actually happens?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Why are so many people arguing about whether or not it is expensive to raise a toddler? Have you all forgotten that he had TWO life insurance policies on Cooper? That's the financial motive.

Agree. Some poor toddlers can live off rice and beans.

While others are brought up to believe that they need steak and shrimp.

So imo.

It's about how the parents are trying to keep up with the joneses in their communities. Jmo

 

[colette]

All the more reason to not forget your child if things were different. He had to strap him in the car seat etc and suddenly forgets? Sorry, I keep repeating myself because I guess I can't be convinced otherwise. Even if LE is saying it wasn't as long as it actually was, still not excuse to forget your child. Why did Ross forget him that day, a really hot day? Why was he searching the net on hot car deaths, then it actually happens to him. I would think common sense would tell someone to NOT leave a living creature in a hot car, why look it up to find out what actually happens?

See there is another lie, he was not searching for hot car deaths. Also it is always hot in summer in that area. I am waiting to hear the whole case.

 

[justkk]

This has been puzzling to me as well - I have wondered if Ross was known to blather on at people, talk too much about things people aren't interested in or just generally annoy people by talking too much.

If your husband was known to be an annoying, talking too much, type - why would that even cross your mind or have any bearing when you have just found out your child has died...
Why would you be the least bit concerned that he "annoyed" the police.

That comment from LH makes no sense unless she had knowledge of or suspected what he was *thinking* of doing.

I look forward to hearing her testimony and hopefully explanation of her comment.

JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tlcya]

Good evening folks.

Since trial is not in session and won't be until next week, and this thread is getting long, I created a general discussion thread to hang in until trial resumes.

I will close this one down in a few minutes so please move on over to The Sidebar

tlcya

 

[PaperDoll]

See there is another lie, he was not searching for hot car deaths. Also it is always hot in summer in that area. I am waiting to hear the whole case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure I will be :crazy: but I thought he searched for something along the lines of hot car deaths or something like it. Say you are correct, what has me sold that this was a planned murder, was him taking Cooper to CFA, walking him out to the car and strapping him in then within a very very short time, he forgets??? On top of that he backs in the parking space and doesn't see Cooper at all??? Grabs his coffee and possibly other things he needs for work all the while Cooper is not far behind him, and may even be chattering, then Ross gets out of the car and goes into work. Not once throughout the day did he ever remember he may not have taken Cooper to daycare??? Not once?? I would think something would trigger his brain that something wasn't right that morning therefore never bothered to check.