TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[Cryptic]

These texts are interesting. Maybe these texts are damning. If she was going to meet up with him later that night - she wasn’t as tired as she may seemed. Yikes! 3 mins to call 911.

I think the "not so tired" posts can be used to refute her physically exhausted and mentally wrecked claim and convict for manslaughter.

The posts, however, don't appear to show a pre-disposition to harm somebody and looking for an excuse type mentality though.

The delay in calling 911 would seem to be stronger in supporting a murder conviction as one could argue that failure to provide timely aid onstitutes murder.

Even still, this seems to be stretch as AG never denied that someone needed assistance and never actively attempted to hinder somebody from providing it.

Going back into history, a famous politician once delayed calling 911 for far longer than three minutes after realizing an error. He was never prosecuted for anything, let alone murder.

In the end, Manslaughter might be the most realistic conviction option.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I think the "not so tired" posts can be used to refute her physically exhausted and mentally wrecked claim and convict for manslaughter.

The posts, however, don't appear to show a pre-disposition to harm somebody and looking for an excuse type mentality though.

The delay in calling 911 would seem to be stronger in supporting a murder conviction as it shows a deliberate unwillingness to provide aid even after realizing the mistake. Her failure to provide aid then constitutes murder?

Even still, three minutes might not be glaring enough to guarantee a murder conviction. Going back into history, a famous politician once delayed calling 911 for well, far longer than three minutes after realizing his error. He was never prosecuted for anything, let alone murder.

Was that in Texas?

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Not to mention she is a police officer who is trained to act in stressful situations. I used to work overnight EMS call, and when those alarms went off, even from a dead sleep, you were on and functioning. Never would it cross your mind, "I am tired".

I also used to work overnight and those are the worst. If you are sitting down - then you can get sleepy but as soon as that code blue button goes off... you’re heart is racing and the only thing that is on your mind is saving that person and then you try to regroup after everything settles down which takes a while...

Another good example is right before my dad passed away, I had been up for over 46 hours with maybe an occasional 10 min nods here and there, but I couldn’t sleep knowing he was sick. When I was able to sleep, I ended up balled up in a corner of the waiting room. 15 mins after I fell asleep, I heard the code over the intercom and automatically knew that it was my dad. So even after a lack of sleep, I was able to jump up and be completely awake due to the adrenaline. To this day, I have PTSD about how it all went down and I swear to you my heart pounds a little faster thinking about it. I know this isn’t her father but the fact that she killed somebody accidentally, you’d think she wouldn’t be tired at that point.

Just heartless as hell, even if this was a case of unfortunate circumstances, by her not providing aid or by the lack of aid she did provide she needs to be accountable on that alone.

The fact that it took her nearly 3 mins to call 911.

The fact that she was coached what to say.

The fact that after she shot him, and there was a time lapse of where she wasn’t providing aid

The fact that she was worried more about her job than his life. Tells me all the I need to know.

The fact that she deleted text messages from that night is all I needed to know.

The defense is trying to paint her out to be a good person and she may have been up to that point but this case isn’t about painting her to be some hardcore murderer, It’s about holding her responsible for the actions she took and actions she didn’t take.

That 3 mins could have saved his life.

 

[Cortne]

Ever broken and entered a neighbor's home? Ever shot and killed someone in their own home? I wish we were all perfect. And I wish all LEOs absorbed their training and applied it. JMO.

Amen!!

 

[Hraefn]

It was 3 minutes 44 seconds from when AG's phone call with Rivera ended to when she called 911. Remember when her call with Rivera ended, AG was pulled off the main pathway in the parking garage. So she hung up that phone call, pulled back on the driving path, proceeded to the 4th floor, entered the building, walked two hallways, had the encounter with Jean during which he was shot, then called 911. The call ended with Rivera and 3:44 minutes later a call was made to 911.

It was misleading earlier I think it seemed she shot Jean and didn't call 911 for 3 minutes. That is not the case.

ETA: I guess I am not positive about this. A lot of people seem to think it was a 3 min delay between the shooting and the 911 call. I missed this if that is the case.

 

[MsFacetious]

That’s the difference between this case and the politician.

Could Botham have been saved if she’d called immediately?

Was Amber qualified to determine he was beyond help?

Was the 911 operator qualified to determine he couldn’t be saved?

I don’t think they were.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Prosecution and defense describe the signage and atmosphere indicating different floors in the parking garage very, very differently. I hope we get to see photos, and I hope they actually take the jury to that parking garage. JMO.

Yes I said the same thing. Actually I did see a sign on a video and I think it was on court tv explaining the upcoming trial and it was clear as day that there was a sign. Now, did the apartments maybe put one up after the case of Botham getting shot. I don’t know but it definitely was there and it definitely was at the stairs.

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

Hung jury. Amber walks...

Can you elaborate on why you think this?

 

[Handsome Sailor]

They overcharged. And it's gonna bite 'em. Just like in the Trayvon Martin case.

 

[gitana1]

I would have voted for manslaughter from the very beginning. jmo

I think me too.

 

[BeachSky]

Prosecutors Argue Amber Guyger’s Sext Messages Contradict Claim She Was Tired When She Shot Botham Jean


“When can I come over?” Martin Rivera, identified as the person Guyger was texting with, asked in his message.
“You can come over after this,” Guyger responded in an apparent allusion to her finishing up at work.
She then texted to Rivera: “super h—— today too,” to which Rivera responded, “me too.”


Wha....? Martin said on the stand he was not going to her place that night

 

[Cortne]

They overcharged. And it's gonna bite 'em. Just like in the Trayvon Martin case.

So she could be found guilty of less? Unlike CFCA?

 

[gitana1]

Ditto, Texas laws are very different.

Manslaughter in TX is a second degree felony.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Manslaughter at most. Besides, it'll be overturned on appeal. Already we have the prosecution violating a gag order. And the potential for civil disturbance swaying the jury's decision is another grounds. Judge erred BIG TIME in not moving it to another metro area in TX. There was no reason to keep this trial in Big D

There was also no reason for the defense to request it to be in more of a conservative county. Remember the defense asked it been moved to Collin or Rockwall counties. They claimed it would give her more of a fair chance because Dallas county and all the media coverage. But I’m almost certain those counties watch the same news that us in Dallas county too.. Actually, I am certain. I work in Plano which is part of Collin County I believe, and the news channels are definitely the same.

 

[gitana1]

Hung jury. Amber walks...

A hung jury is not the same as an acquittal. Two different things.

 

[Cortne]

There was also no reason for the defense to request it to be in more of a conservative county. Remember the defense asked it been moved to Collin or Rockwall counties. They claimed it would give her more of a fair chance because Dallas county and all the media coverage. But I’m almost certain those counties watch the same news that us in Dallas county too.. Actually, I am certain. I work in Plano which is part of Collin County I believe, and the news channels are definitely the same.

Ill second that, maybe Austin would work. lmao Hi neighbor

 

[Cryptic]

He wasn't charged with murder (or even manslaughter) because he belonged to what was at the time one of the if not the most powerful family in the nation.

Very true, he was not charged for those exact reasons. At the end of the day, however, the core fact is that he was not charged.

Therefore, I think the comparison is somewhat valid:

If political figure "PF" can delay seeking assistance for 24 hours and attempt to persuade somebody else to take the blame and not be charged, is it fair to convict a police officer of murder because she delayed three minutes in seeking assistance?

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

Very true, he was not charged for those exact reasons. At the end of the day, however, the core fact is that he was not charged.

Therefore, I think the comparison is somewhat valid:

If political figure "PF" can delay seeking assistance for 24 hours and attempt to persuade somebody else to take the blame and not be charged, is it fair to convict a police officer of murder because she delayed three minutes in seeking assistance?

No, it probably isn't. Glad there are other reasons she is guilty. namely she shot a man, in his OWN house.

 

[mickey2942]

Very true, he was not charged for those exact reasons. At the end of the day, however, the core fact is that he was not charged.

Therefore, I think the comparison is somewhat valid:

If political figure "PF" can delay seeking assistance for 24 hours and attempt to persuade somebody else to take the blame and not be charged, is it fair to convict a police officer of murder because she delayed three minutes in seeking assistance?

Completely separate situations.
1. Amber Guyger is a police officer. Higher standard expected.
2. This is almost 2 generations removed, 1969.
3. A police officer killed a man in his own home.

There really isn't any comparison between the two.

I liked the new narrative I read today, that Botham, a large black man was "charging" at Amber Guyger, she had no time to think, because she felt in "fear" of her life.

They are really re-framing the entire situation.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Very true, he was not charged for those exact reasons. At the end of the day, however, the core fact is that he was not charged.

Therefore, I think the comparison is somewhat valid:

If political figure "PF" can delay seeking assistance for 24 hours and attempt to persuade somebody else to take the blame and not be charged, is it fair to convict a police officer of murder because she delayed three minutes in seeking assistance?

Yes. Just because there was a miscarriage of justice in one instance does not mean we stop enforcing the law.