TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #3 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[Wossy]

I hate to be "that person," but do keep in mind that the girl seen walking around the area on October 31 has never been confirmed to be WCJD. While it's probable that it's WCJD, there's no way to confirm it.

That might would explain why nobody at the prison recognized her because it was a completely different person. But the scandals the Waitress described her carrying were found with the body.

 

[cyberbunnie]

I also think it's unlikely she was foreign. The witnesses would have definitely mentioned a different accent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general consensus is that she was American, but never reported missing/the report was lost.

Has the possibility that she was Hispanic ever considered? From looking at her post-mortem photos, she could pass as a Hispanic with white features. I don't know if they did tests to determine her ethnicity or just did it based on looks, though.

 

[Beekarina]

I've seen people raise the possibility she was Hispanic. She has light skin, and very delicate features. Aside from that, I personally feel she could be anyone, from anywhere.

With regard to the sandals: girls have always traded clothes. If we go with the theory of groups of kids out for Halloween parties, shoes might have been swapped. That remains a possibility too, albeit a slim one.

 

[Friday Fan]

I also think it's unlikely she was foreign. The witnesses would have definitely mentioned a different accent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general consensus is that she was American, but never reported missing/the report was lost.

Has the possibility that she was Hispanic ever considered? From looking at her post-mortem photos, she could pass as a Hispanic with white features. I don't know if they did tests to determine her ethnicity or just did it based on looks, though.

They did DNA for CODIS in 1999, but it was not adequate enough for ethnic admixture or any type of genealogy. No new DNA has been obtained. If they have enough DNA for admixture, they can enroll her in Doe DNA or similar project. It's a Catch-22. We're at the mercy of the DNA gods...She doesn't match any missing person...

The odds are, like so many of these cases, someone might have filed a report years ago, but nothing happened with it and the report was tossed. Her family might think she's off living her life...her parents may have died (almost all of the old Does that have been recently identified no longer have living parents). I think having living parents is probably a big key to getting a Doe like her identified without genetic genealogy.

 

[Beekarina]

Friday Fan, your point reminds me so much of Beth Doe. I wonder if this could be a similar situation?

 

[Springrain]

She could've just been a white Hispanic. Hispanic isn't a race, Hispanics can be any race. For example, most Cuban-Americans self-identify as white Hispanics. I don't think she was, but it's possible.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Although the distance is enormous, I feel that both are alike

The Doe Network: Case File 2125DFFRA

91UFTX

 

[Beekarina]

Although the distance is enormous, I feel that both are alike

The Doe Network: Case File 2125DFFRA

91UFTX

Hmmm....I really DO feel WCJD could be anyone, from anywhere, but Nathalie's nose seems larger at the tip to me. WCJD's nose is so very tiny. (The crop of WCJD is Post Mortem, from Wikipedia. I cropped so it is mostly her nose, but warning in case anyone is sensitive to Post Mortem.*****)

To compare:

 

[MadMcGoo]

What is the possibility that WCJD is foreign? I was looking on The Doe Network for missing foreign girls and came across this

The Doe Network: Case File 2125DFFRA

I think it is impossible but I would like to know what you think

I too have proposed this potential match. I actually spent hours (days really) going over the possibility. I was sure Nathalie was WCJD. I’m sure I’ve even suggested the possibility here on this forum. I’m almost certain I’ve submitted the possibility to LE and it wasn’t a match. I like that you mentioned her here. I don’t think I’m as crazy

I hate to be "that person," but do keep in mind that the girl seen walking around the area on October 31 has never been confirmed to be WCJD. While it's probable that it's WCJD, there's no way to confirm it.

I’ve also suggested this. After some feedback, I don’t think it’s likely the girls weren’t one and the same.

 

[Tabikat2021]

She could've just been a white Hispanic. Hispanic isn't a race, Hispanics can be any race. For example, most Cuban-Americans self-identify as white Hispanics. I don't think she was, but it's possible.

Also it should be noted that there is an entire population in Mexico that have blond hair and blue eyes due to I believe it was a community of German heritage moving there in the past. Not that our doe is linked to them but it’s just a thought of opening the possibilities of where she came from and that she could possibly be from another country, though I don’t necessarily believe that she is. But like someone else said a few posts up, at this point I guess we shouldn’t discount her from being from anywhere in the world.

 

[Beekarina]

I can understand why people are looking very closely at Nathalie. WCJD has such delicate features, especially apparent in the post-mortem photo where she is laying flat and the image is "straight on". In my opinion only, she does not have "All American girl next door*" looks. I would not be shocked if she was foreign, or "first-generation".

Hopefully no one offended by this explanation. I just mean it as she DOES look kind of different/striking to me. I also wondered a bit about her wearing panty hose with her jeans, but then I sort of remembered that being a thing in the early 80s? There was also no mention that I remember of her shaving habits, i.e. like the Sumter County Doe, Pamela Buckley, who ended up being American and not European (or from South America) as many believed. We don't have any real clues about the sandals found with her being a foreign brand, or any dental work, etc.

Such a sad mystery....

 

[carbuff]

I've always thought WCJD looked vaguely Asian, like maybe a Vietnamese or Thai grandparent. A sizable population of Vietnamese fisherfolk came to the Texas coast after the fall of Saigon in 1975. There had been a smaller stream of refugees for a few years before that.

 

[Springrain]

I've always thought WCJD looked vaguely Asian, like maybe a Vietnamese or Thai grandparent. A sizable population of Vietnamese fisherfolk came to the Texas coast after the fall of Saigon in 1975. There had been a smaller stream of refugees for a few years before that.

I'm 1/4 Asian, with a Filipino grandmother, and have wondered a few times if WCJD had a similar family backstory.

 

[Beekarina]

It is such a shame the waitress whosaw the young girl believed to be WCJD is no longer alive.(?) I'm sure if she was, and could be interviewed/shared publicly, we would learn so much more.

I keep looking at the post mortem shot straight on, where she is laying down and we have the most detail of her face. In addition to her youth, WCJD was strikingly pretty. I can't imagine plenty of people didn't notice her there that night. This is such an odd case.

 

[Beekarina]

When I look at the side photo/eyes open, I can see a resemblance to Kimberly King. I'm assuming she was ruled out? I know her teeth are unusual? She fits the very young age though...

 

[carbuff]

That seems to be a popular theory on reddit that she had asiatic eyes or epicanthic folds. But I have seen the side post mortem photos with her eyes open and she 100% does not. There is also a theory that a woman killed her due to lack of seamen doing the sexual assault but I have a feeling it was an impotent male. I remember hearing about several killers like John Paul Knowles and Andrei Chikatilo who weren't able to get an erection.

No, her eyes are definitely European. For me, it's something about the cheekbones, the chin, and the delicacy of the bone structure.

 

[Tired Professor]

That seems to be a popular theory on reddit that she had asiatic eyes or epicanthic folds. But I have seen the side post mortem photos with her eyes open and she 100% does not. There is also a theory that a woman killed her due to lack of seamen doing the sexual assault but I have a feeling it was an impotent male. I remember hearing about several killers like John Paul Knowles and Andrei Chikatilo who weren't able to get an erection.

I have always wondered if it was a couple that killed her.

 

[Springrain]

<Mod Snip>

Back on track I would love to know what DNA agency is supposed to be handling her case.

 

[Beekarina]

I have always wondered if it was a couple that killed her.

This is an interesting theory. Or, if we go with the group of kids out having Halloween parties, something could have gone horribly wrong......

I know as a teen in the 80s, there were plenty of parties way out in the woods where some really awful things happened. No one was killed, but girls were definitely attacked by groups. Groups of other girls badly beat a girl for liking or sleeping with someone's boyfriend, a few girls were raped by multiple guys, things like that. No one reported stuff either. Cuts and bruises were explained as having fallen out of a tree, down stairs, etc. It was a different era entirely.

 

[T rex]

This is an interesting theory. Or, if we go with the group of kids out having Halloween parties, something could have gone horribly wrong......

I know as a teen in the 80s, there were plenty of parties way out in the woods where some really awful things happened. No one was killed, but girls were definitely attacked by groups. Groups of other girls badly beat a girl for liking or sleeping with someone's boyfriend, a few girls were raped by multiple guys, things like that. No one reported stuff either. Cuts and bruises were explained as having fallen out of a tree, down stairs, etc. It was a different era entirely.

I often wonder if the Ellis Unit was gonna be a meeting place for a party...Kids do macabre things on Halloween and maybe they decided to meet up there.

Also Debra Jackson (Orange Socks) was murdered Halloween 1979. Cantu Doe in Bexar County was murdered in 1990. Cantu Doe was discarded near a truck stop.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe WCJD could have been present at a party that night, whether she intended to be or not. It could have been a small gathering or she could have been part of a smaller crowd within a larger one.
About a year ago I was looking at this very thing and I came across something that I found a little interesting. The singer/songwriter Steve Earle wrote a song entitled Ellis Unit One. Now I know it's just a song and I dont know how factual it is although there are a couple of known facts in it and most songwriters do some research when writting this type of song. The third verse goes like this,

Well, my daddy used to talk about them long nights at the walls
And how they used to strap 'em in the chair
The kids down from the college and they'd bring their beer and all
When the lights went out, a cheer rose in the air

Texas had stopped using the chair and I dont think there were any executions in 1979 but the song does have a ring of truth to it.
It may seem insignificant but if true may indicate that the college kids hanging around may have been something the prison would have tolerated and if they went there for executions then its not hard to believe they may have went there on a Halloween night.

Steve Earle – Ellis Unit One Lyrics | Genius Lyrics