TX TX - Jason Landry, 21, enroute from TSU to home, car found crashed at Luling, 14 Dec 2020 #2

[Seattle1]

What’s everyone’s read and opinion on this? Am I missing something? I can definitely understand Tim and Equs pulling out but there are no searches now? I just don’t understand.

^^sbm

I too am very curious why TES officially suspended their search pending specific instructions from LE.

In other words, I expected TES would return after it was announced that CCSO and TX DPS had distinct roles. It could also be that LE is pursuing other background information from JL's electronic footprint, and they're being respectful of TES resources -- enabling them to work on other searches until they have a definite plan.

Nonetheless, I believe JL will be found by an independent passer -- similar to the body found in Liberty County by a fisherman near the river ( about 1.5 miles from NH's crash scene).

MOO

ETA: I agree that SAR of living is most important, but TES will not abandon a family seeking the remains of their family. TM can't turn them down.

 

[happyday]

IMO, unless new information/evidence comes in on where to search, LE most likely won't have any upcoming official searches. Remember, TES works at the request of LE.

The initial quick and heavy boots on the ground is looking for, hopefully, a person who is alive. As the days go by, probability of survival diminishes. Then they switch from a rescue to a body recovery, based on a professional assessment and information known to them.

For a family of a missing loved one, this is a terrible and helpless position to be in. IMO

Yes, and it’s also complicated by the fact that it’s all private property out there. The liability with the oil and salt water wells makes it difficult to get landowners to let volunteers search all around their properties. Especially untrained volunteers. Unfortunately it’s a problem we see with a lot of missing person’s cases here in Texas.

 

[Mrs. Dietz]

^^sbm

I too am very curious why TES officially suspended their search pending specific instructions from LE.

In other words, I expected TES would return after it was announced that CCSO and TX DPS had distinct roles. It could also be that LE is pursuing other background information from JL's electronic footprint, and they're being respectful of TES resources -- enabling them to work on other searches until they have a definite plan.

Nonetheless, I believe JL will be found by an independent passer -- similar to the body found in Liberty County by a fisherman near the river ( about 1.5 miles from NH's crash scene).

MOO

ETA: I agree that SAR of living is most important, but TES will not abandon a family seeking the remains of their family. TM can't turn them down.

 

[Mrs. Dietz]

This is what I'm wondering: Has there been any mention of LE trying to access data from JL's cell phone or bank account? The last information I read stated his phone, wallet, etc. was initially returned to his family.

Sadly, now that a month has passed and no sight of JL, IMOO he is deceased.

 

[ZZ Topps]

Maybe it’s just me but I find it strange that they are no longer searching for JL. Do they know something we don’t? Couldn’t he be just outside the search area like NH seems to have been if that’s indeed his body which it probably is. If this were my loved one I’d want every inch searched around there twice just to make sure unless I really thought he wasn’t around there. This is so baffling to me. What’s everyone’s read and opinion on this? Am I missing something? I can definitely understand Tim and Equs pulling out but there are no searches now? I just don’t understand.

I'm with you on this. Seems it got real quiet real quickly and even our local poster mentioned that aside from the cross on the tree, you'd have no idea anything happened out there. Something seems off.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm with you on this. Seems it got real quiet real quickly and even our local poster mentioned that aside from the cross on the tree, you'd have no idea anything happened out there. Something seems off.

Texas State Student Jason Landry Is Still Missing A Month Later

 

[mlhenn]

This is what I'm wondering: Has there been any mention of LE trying to access data from JL's cell phone or bank account? The last information I read stated his phone, wallet, etc. was initially returned to his family.

Sadly, now that a month has passed and no sight of JL, IMOO he is deceased.

I haven’t read anymore mention of retrieving cellphone data since this article:
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Texas State student Jason Landry face hurdles as physical search ends

Miller said that Landry’s cell phone is locked, and because of the type of security code he uses, it may take months to unlock it.

But the sheriff’s sergeant said he expects that cell phone and other relevant data will be retrievable through “blanket subpoenas” to technology companies like Facebook and Google, where Landry’s data is likely stored on the cloud.

 

[JrTex]

This is what I'm wondering: Has there been any mention of LE trying to access data from JL's cell phone or bank account? The last information I read stated his phone, wallet, etc. was initially returned to his family.

Sadly, now that a month has passed and no sight of JL, IMOO he is deceased.

They are seeking to break his security password on his phone. Unfortunately, this is a slow process and the phone companies don't provide assistance.

 

[Seattle1]

I haven’t read anymore mention of retrieving cellphone data since this article:
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Texas State student Jason Landry face hurdles as physical search ends

Miller said that Landry’s cell phone is locked, and because of the type of security code he uses, it may take months to unlock it.

But the sheriff’s sergeant said he expects that cell phone and other relevant data will be retrievable through “blanket subpoenas” to technology companies like Facebook and Google, where Landry’s data is likely stored on the cloud.

My first question is whether the sheriff's sgt is hinting evidence of a crime?

If not, I believe there's going to be a delay in retrieving JL's electronic info whether it's breaking JL's unlock code or by subpoena as court orders for phone data are no longer what they used to be (i.e., SCOTUS Carpenter vs US., decided June 22, 2018).

Under a court order, they can get his billing records and usage (call detail records "CDR") but not the details that will prove most helpful. CDR's are not protected by the "Stored Communications Act" and are also not protected by the 4th Amendment (whereas the actual content of phone/text messages and cell phone site location are not CDR's).

More important is that if there's no evidence of a crime, there are no search warrants for expedited electronic information (non-CDR data) such as texts and location of his phone which is more valuable here.

As far as a missing person investigation and the courts are concerned, JL is an adult that is entitled to go off-grid without an invasion of his privacy.

I hope his family receives answers very soon.

MOO

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

 

[Spartygirl]

But wouldn't he have had it out to use the WAZE navigator his dad said he used?

yes, he probably did since phone was found in the vehicle and not in the backpack

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

My first question is whether the sheriff's sgt is hinting evidence of a crime?

If not, I believe there's going to be a delay in retrieving JL's electronic info whether it's breaking JL's unlock code or by subpoena as court orders for phone data are no longer what they used to be (i.e., SCOTUS Carpenter vs US., decided June 22, 2018).

Under a court order, they can get his billing records and usage (call detail records "CDR") but not the details that will prove most helpful. CDR's are not protected by the "Stored Communications Act" and are also not protected by the 4th Amendment (whereas the actual content of phone/text messages and cell phone site location are not CDR's).

More important is that if there's no evidence of a crime, there are no search warrants for expedited electronic information (non-CDR data) such as texts and location of his phone which is more valuable here.

As far as a missing person investigation and the courts are concerned, JL is an adult that is entitled to go off-grid without an invasion of his privacy.

I hope his family receives answers very soon.

MOO

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

I’m curious as to whether JL was still on his family’s phone plan or if he paid for a separate plan. Reason being, if he was on his family’s plan I bet that his parents could request a lot of that info from the phone company since they are the account holder.

 

[Seattle1]

I’m curious as to whether JL was still on his family’s phone plan or if he paid for a separate plan. Reason being, if he was on his family’s plan I bet that his parents could request a lot of that info from the phone company since they are the account holder.

I agree -- it would also eliminate the need for subpoena since call records are available from the provider by request of the account holder. However, I suspect JL was not on the family plan because I think the provider would have helped unlock the phone at the request of the account holder.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

I agree -- it would also eliminate the need for subpoena since call records are available from the provider by request of the account holder. However, I suspect JL was not on the family plan because I think the provider would have helped unlock the phone at the request of the account holder.

RE the call records, that was one of my exact thoughts. That, text, and location pings which would show previous movements and help establish a timeline and perhaps who he was around if it hit at a residence. As far as unlocking the phone, I don’t think so. I don’t believe the phone company has any access to passcodes and such used for the device itself. IMO that would be up to Apple (he would be the holder of the Apple ID associated with the device and codes, even if on his parents phone service) or the android equivalent. I also believe any navigation and internet history would be up to those providers as Jason would likely be the holder of the linked account. For example when using Google, you often sign in with your email address.

 

[Deleted member 215379]

RE the call records, that was one of my exact thoughts. That, text, and location pings which would show previous movements and help establish a timeline and perhaps who he was around if it hit at a residence. As far as unlocking the phone, I don’t think so. I don’t believe the phone company has any access to passcodes and such used for the device itself. IMO that would be up to Apple (he would be the holder of the Apple ID associated with the device and codes, even if on his parents phone service) or the android equivalent. I also believe any navigation and internet history would be up to those providers as Jason would likely be the holder of the linked account. For example when using Google, you often sign in with your email address.

True! My best friend’s college-age daughter passed away in a car accident (mom still paid for cell plan) and she desperately wanted to retrieve all her daughter’s photos from the cell phone and the company would not help her out in unlocking the device

 

[Teche]

True! My best friend’s college-age daughter passed away in a car accident (mom still paid for cell plan) and she desperately wanted to retrieve all her daughter’s photos from the cell phone and the company would not help her out in unlocking the device

That's sad that a dimple act of kindness could not have been extended.
My granddaughter lived a month in NICU. It was just after Katrina. My daughter had a phone and took many pictures of her baby. Later on she updated her phone. After telling the sales rep. that her phone had pictures that she couldn't transfer to her computer, Verizon allowed her to keep it. To this day she cherishes that simple act of kindness.

 

[Valiant]

True! My best friend’s college-age daughter passed away in a car accident (mom still paid for cell plan) and she desperately wanted to retrieve all her daughter’s photos from the cell phone and the company would not help her out in unlocking the device

That's sad that a dimple act of kindness could not have been extended.
My granddaughter lived a month in NICU. It was just after Katrina. My daughter had a phone and took many pictures of her baby. Later on she updated her phone. After telling the sales rep. that her phone had pictures that she couldn't transfer to her computer, Verizon allowed her to keep it. To this day she cherishes that simple act of kindness.

It's not that the phone company DIDN'T unlock the device, it's that the phone company COULDN'T unlock the device.
The phone company does not have the user information to unlock a user account on a phone.

 

[cluciano63]

I imagine if his parents had been able to get permission or whatever to unlock the phone, police would not have been stymied or predicted a wait of months...but the whole issue of people being missing and police not being able to access data is complicated...seems as if there should be a way to get special access in unusual cases, when it is unknown if the person is deceased, injured or simply missing on purpose. Even if just info from the past 24 hrs, for example...I don’t know. I am not a person who is super concerned about my privacy but I know most are...jmo.

 

[JrTex]

I imagine if his parents had been able to get permission or whatever to unlock the phone, police would not have been stymied or predicted a wait of months...but the whole issue of people being missing and police not being able to access data is complicated...seems as if there should be a way to get special access in unusual cases, when it is unknown if the person is deceased, injured or simply missing on purpose. Even if just info from the past 24 hrs, for example...I don’t know. I am not a person who is super concerned about my privacy but I know most are...jmo.

This is a long standing issue/problem. The cell phone companies - primarily Apple - will not provide assistance. It is very controversial but their position is that if they provide a means to access a locked phone, the capability will be used by hackers. LE has a couple companies that have the capability but it is hugely time consuming and difficult. For perspective, 2 years AFTER the Sutherland Springs church shooting which happened right down the road from this incident and law enforcement STILL had not gained access to the shooters password protected phone.

 

[JrTex]

I agree -- it would also eliminate the need for subpoena since call records are available from the provider by request of the account holder. However, I suspect JL was not on the family plan because I think the provider would have helped unlock the phone at the request of the account holder.

This has been discussed extensively on previous threads. HS/College Kids use a lot of chat apps that don't register with cell towers. The tower information is easy to get and they can get it within hours - every detective knows how. The chap apps are internet based and harder to access.

 

[JrTex]

My first question is whether the sheriff's sgt is hinting evidence of a crime?

If not, I believe there's going to be a delay in retrieving JL's electronic info whether it's breaking JL's unlock code or by subpoena as court orders for phone data are no longer what they used to be (i.e., SCOTUS Carpenter vs US., decided June 22, 2018).

Under a court order, they can get his billing records and usage (call detail records "CDR") but not the details that will prove most helpful. CDR's are not protected by the "Stored Communications Act" and are also not protected by the 4th Amendment (whereas the actual content of phone/text messages and cell phone site location are not CDR's).

More important is that if there's no evidence of a crime, there are no search warrants for expedited electronic information (non-CDR data) such as texts and location of his phone which is more valuable here.

As far as a missing person investigation and the courts are concerned, JL is an adult that is entitled to go off-grid without an invasion of his privacy.

I hope his family receives answers very soon.

MOO

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

I disagree that there would be any lawful difficulty to access information. The customer can get access lawfully. This has very little to do with lawfully gaining access and everything to do with the ability to gain access. These kids have multiple IG apps, dating apps, WhatsApp, SnapChat, etc. and without the phone, it is next to impossible to get information from these apps. Getting access to the phone is next to impossible but can be done via a couple of private companies. If I were on the case - and I'm not - I would be trying to get his Google ID. This has probably been done and if nothing else, can at least tell LE what time his phone was in Luling.