TX - Juliet & Cavanaugh Ramirez, die in hot car, Weatherford, 26 May 2017 *Arrest*

yeah sure seems like a coverup of something
If this does turn out to be accidental, I doubt she will ever forgive herself
but I just canèt see it

If this was accidental I wish she would fess up. It looks so much worse when they're trying to cover something up. Makes an accident seem much less believable.
 
There are a couple of things that don't make sense. When you have two toddlers, don't you put your cell phone and keys up and away from them? My granddaughter is always grabbing a cell if she can get her hands on one. My son has a broken screen to show for it.

It just seems so odd that the girls were able to do so many things that were preventable. They got the phone and the keys,they both got out of the house, without being heard or seen. Was the door unlocked?

They got down the driveway, and down the road a bit, to the car. amazingly, it was unlocked? And they were able to open the door , both climb in, close the door, lock them, and still have the keys and the cell in hand? How long before they would actually be deceased? I think that takes a little while.
 
Where/when in the video does the car appear that you think is the car the children were in?

I can't make out which car the children were found in either. None of those cars seem to be parked close to the house. Who parks their car so far from the house when there is a driveway right up to it?
 
If this was accidental I wish she would fess up. It looks so much worse when they're trying to cover something up. Makes an accident seem much less believable.

My gut says accidental but I also believe it happened way differently. Like she just wasn't watching her kids or fell asleep. I don't feel she purposely harmed them. Either way, two sweet babies were lost. :(
 
My gut says accidental but I also believe it happened way differently. Like she just wasn't watching her kids or fell asleep. I don't feel she purposely harmed them. Either way, two sweet babies were lost. :(

That's what I'm thinking too. It wasn't intentional but she's holding something back.

RIP Juliet and Cavanaugh. :rose:
 
Where/when in the video does the car appear that you think is the car the children were in?

I can't make out which car the children were found in either. None of those cars seem to be parked close to the house. Who parks their car so far from the house when there is a driveway right up to it?
OOPS---IGNORE this--I thought the white car was the same---WHY did this video show these two cars I wonder>
 
Where/when in the video does the car appear that you think is the car the children were in?

My gut says accidental but I also believe it happened way differently. Like she just wasn't watching her kids or fell asleep. I don't feel she purposely harmed them. Either way, two sweet babies were lost. :(

That's what I think too. Maybe they were both asleep and she wanted them to stay asleep awhile longer and she lost track of time?

It is just hard for me to believe these very young kids were able to do all of the things required to end up locked in that vehicle though.
 
I think that this looks very suspicious. I just cannot see a reason why she would leave the car so far from the house and then those tiny toddlers got out of the house and made a bee line to the car. Surely, if they got out of the house, there would be other things to explore.
 
It is the 2nd car, the white one with the roof window. We only know that because there is another article that has a closeup of the car.

It is very odd that the car is parked so far from the home. And why would it be unlocked if it was on the side of the road and away from the homes?

The car you're referring to in the video is a different car from the one in the closeup at the beginning of this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/year-girl-16-month-boy-found-dead-hot/story?id=47671592

The one in the closeup has a tinted moonroof and silvery/gray hubcaps- the white car parked by the road in the video has no moonroof, and dark hubcaps.
 
This is so sad!! Those poor babies.
I am also thinking cover up, like mom fell asleep or forgot them in the car. The story just doesn't add up.
Also here to attest to Houdini kids. I got one. My first 2 were angels in comparison! This one is a little monster. And I say that with love, haha. He climbs anything and everything. And now at 33 months can definitely get himself in the car and shut the door. He loads himself in thru the front seat and climbs to his carseat in the back. I do not take my eyes off him for more than a minute.
This is him 2 weeks before his 2nd birthday. I turned around for a second and he scaled it.
25fdcb19a5c79ab060c40efce5692c71.jpg


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This is so sad!! Those poor babies.
I am also thinking cover up, like mom fell asleep or forgot them in the car. The story just doesn't add up.
Also here to attest to Houdini kids. I got one. My first 2 were angels in comparison! This one is a little monster. And I say that with love, haha. He climbs anything and everything. And now at 33 months can definitely get himself in the car and shut the door. He loads himself in thru the front seat and climbs to his carseat in the back. I do not take my eyes off him for more than a minute.
This is him 2 weeks before his 2nd birthday. I turned around for a second and he scaled it.
25fdcb19a5c79ab060c40efce5692c71.jpg


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He is like our youngest I posted about! If he had been our first, he might have been our last! Funny that my husband's mother says the same about him!
 
He is like our youngest I posted about! If he had been our first, he might have been our last! Funny that my husband's mother says the same about him!
Hahaha, we say the same thing too!!
If there was ever a thought for a 4th kid, he closed the book on that, for sure! He is exhausting.

As far as this case though, something seems fishy, what with both kids in the car, having her cell and keys, how far away the car was, the hide and seek game... just too many questions. My oldest is 6 and is still a sucky hider. And the youngest can get into and out of the car. Hinky, hinky.

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Can cadaver dogs catch a scent in the car seats?If she had accidently left them in the car and then when she found them took them out and came up with the story.The dogs would be able to tell if they died in their car seats.
Where did she say she found them in the front or back of the car?
 
The more I learn about this story, the more I find the mother's account of what happened completely improbable. First, why are two children playing alone without any supervision? At that age, my daughter was never allowed to be in a separate room unless I had a direct line of sight into that room from the room I was in - the same goes for my 4 year old nephew who I kept nearly every day for the first 2 1/2 years of his life.

Second, why are the keys AND cellphone left in a place where the mother wouldn't either see or hear them being taken? My keys are always in my purse (unless I'm driving) and my cell phone is with me at all times because, like A LOT of people, we don't have a landline and I won't know if someone is calling or texting if my phone isn't with me or very close to me - and I would say my situation on where I keep my phone and my keys is pretty typical.

Third, why did the kids take both the phone and the keys? That seems extremely odd in itself and sounds more like a CYA and cover your bases excuse than anything else.

Fourth, how do two children get out the door to go outside without making enough noise to be caught in the act? Kids that young don't understand the concept that sound travels.

Fifth, I SERIOUSLY doubt that these two very young children hatched a plan and carried it out without delay. Kids at that age usually aren't that focused on activities that involve a lot of steps. They are usually easily distracted by other things they encounter along their path. And, even if it's possible that one child was focused enough to carry out the plan without any deviations, its highly doubtful that both children would do that - certainly not without a lot of instruction from the older child, which (again) should draw attention to the children. I mean, teenagers trying to sneak the car keys so they can take the car without permission have trouble carrying out this sort of plan without getting caught. The time it would take for two very young children to get to the car after acquiring the keys and managing to get out of the house should take a decent amount of time.

Sixth, from the video and the photo, all the cars seem to be in a heavily shaded area, which would greatly prolong how long it would take for the car to get hot enough for the kids to die from the heat. In the shade the temperature would be 10-15 degrees cooler than the actual temperature because there isn't direct sunlight. So, according to reports on this subject, if the temperature in the shaded car was lower than the 96 degrees that was reported as the temperature that day because the car is in the shade, the amount of time it would take for the children to die from the heat goes from 20 minutes in direct sunlight to closer to an hour in the shade.

Seventh, why wouldn't the kids get out of the car when they started to get hot and sweaty?! They clearly (if the mother's story is to be believed) are capable of opening the car door, entering the car, locking the car, and unlocking the car. So it seems to make perfect sense that when they started to get upset because of how hot it was inside the car (and those of us with kids all know how cranky they get when they get hot and sweaty), they easily could have just gotten back out of the car, or at least just opened the door, if what the mother says is true about the children's abilities to enter and exit and lock and unlock the car.

I'm sure the police will thoroughly test all of these variables to confirm or deny the mother's story, but just on the surface with the small amount of information that is known, it really looks as though the mother's story has a LOT of problems. Even if you put all the variables aside (kids getting the phone AND car keys, kids getting out of the house without making enough noise to draw attention to themselves, kids managing to get the car unnoticed, kids managing to get the car unlocked, kids managing to get inside the car, and the kids then locking the car) and only focus on the temperature it could easily be a situation where those kids were missing for well over an hour. If that turns out to be true, it's pretty hard to explain away not knowing where the kids were for an hour or more. After about 10 minutes (because they were supposed to be in the house) I would have been making phone calls. If I looked for my phone and couldn't find it, I would also immediately realize my keys were missing too because they were supposedly together. I don't see how the police can't quickly and easily prove the mother's story wrong. This is sounding more and more like a Susan Smith situation - even the ages of the children are almost exactly the same. For the sake of those two poor babies I hope and pray that LE gets to the bottom of this and justice is delivered for those babies.


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Please do not throw stones at me about the above story. I am the mom who put her child on a leash (that didn't work because he was too strong and determined and could break out of it). I brought a long sleeve sweater with me so I could tie him into the grocery cart because he would wiggle out of the belt constantly stand up if not. I also put locks up on the top of any door that led outside because he learned to open them by 12 months also. When I say there was a list of things to keep this child alive, I meant it. Some children are just bent on putting their parents into cardiac arrest and for some reason, God thought I should be blessed with one. Thank goodness we all made it through it.
I don't have kids, but I do have a dog. I know my dog. I know that he won't jump on a chair and then onto the table to eat a pbj sandwich like my brother's dog would. I also know that he is likely to bite anyone who comes through the door, so if someone is coming over, I put him on a leash and take proper precautions. Sounds like as a good parent, you knew your child and did the same things (the sweater idea is ingenious for your situation). Why didn't this mom know her children?

I live in a hot state and dread hearing about the car and pool deaths, especially as I would love kids of my own. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, two stories about more than one kid in a car at a time.

To me, the likelihood of all of these things happening innocently is like winning the lottery small.

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The more I learn about this story, the more I find the mother's account of what happened completely improbable. First, why are two children playing alone without any supervision? At that age, my daughter was never allowed to be in a separate room unless I had a direct line of sight into that room from the room I was in - the same goes for my 4 year old nephew who I kept nearly every day for the first 2 1/2 years of his life.

Second, why are the keys AND cellphone left in a place where the mother wouldn't either see or hear them being taken? My keys are always in my purse (unless I'm driving) and my cell phone is with me at all times because, like A LOT of people, we don't have a landline and I won't know if someone is calling or texting if my phone isn't with me or very close to me - and I would say my situation on where I keep my phone and my keys is pretty typical.

Third, why did the kids take both the phone and the keys? That seems extremely odd in itself and sounds more like a CYA and cover your bases excuse than anything else.

Fourth, how do two children get out the door to go outside without making enough noise to be caught in the act? Kids that young don't understand the concept that sound travels.

Fifth, I SERIOUSLY doubt that these two very young children hatched a plan and carried it out without delay. Kids at that age usually aren't that focused on activities that involve a lot of steps. They are usually easily distracted by other things they encounter along their path. And, even if it's possible that one child was focused enough to carry out the plan without any deviations, its highly doubtful that both children would do that - certainly not without a lot of instruction from the older child, which (again) should draw attention to the children. I mean, teenagers trying to sneak the car keys so they can take the car without permission have trouble carrying out this sort of plan without getting caught. The time it would take for two very young children to get to the car after acquiring the keys and managing to get out of the house should take a decent amount of time.

Sixth, from the video and the photo, all the cars seem to be in a heavily shaded area, which would greatly prolong how long it would take for the car to get hot enough for the kids to die from the heat. In the shade the temperature would be 10-15 degrees cooler than the actual temperature because there isn't direct sunlight. So, according to reports on this subject, if the temperature in the shaded car was lower than the 96 degrees that was reported as the temperature that day because the car is in the shade, the amount of time it would take for the children to die from the heat goes from 20 minutes in direct sunlight to closer to an hour in the shade.

Seventh, why wouldn't the kids get out of the car when they started to get hot and sweaty?! They clearly (if the mother's story is to be believed) are capable of opening the car door, entering the car, locking the car, and unlocking the car. So it seems to make perfect sense that when they started to get upset because of how hot it was inside the car (and those of us with kids all know how cranky they get when they get hot and sweaty), they easily could have just gotten back out of the car, or at least just opened the door, if what the mother says is true about the children's abilities to enter and exit and lock and unlock the car.

I'm sure the police will thoroughly test all of these variables to confirm or deny the mother's story, but just on the surface with the small amount of information that is known, it really looks as though the mother's story has a LOT of problems. Even if you put all the variables aside (kids getting the phone AND car keys, kids getting out of the house without making enough noise to draw attention to themselves, kids managing to get the car unnoticed, kids managing to get the car unlocked, kids managing to get inside the car, and the kids then locking the car) and only focus on the temperature it could easily be a situation where those kids were missing for well over an hour. If that turns out to be true, it's pretty hard to explain away not knowing where the kids were for an hour or more. After about 10 minutes (because they were supposed to be in the house) I would have been making phone calls. If I looked for my phone and couldn't find it, I would also immediately realize my keys were missing too because they were supposedly together. I don't see how the police can't quickly and easily prove the mother's story wrong. This is sounding more and more like a Susan Smith situation - even the ages of the children are almost exactly the same. For the sake of those two poor babies I hope and pray that LE gets to the bottom of this and justice is delivered for those babies.


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I agree with all you said, except your point #6. AFAIK the air temperature that is reported in weather news and on weather sites etc is always measured in sun and wind shade. So if the car was under trees/in the shade it would still have been 96 degrees outside temperature.

I might be wrong, or it is done differently in the States as I know it from Europe.

I think, mom was probably distracted. Maybe she was on (another) phone or online device, or she fell asleep, or something. Now she is trying to cover up her lack of attention. imo
 
I don't see that either. I wish we knew what kind of vehicle and how old the 2 yr old was, in months. was she almost 3, and able to put the 16 month old up into the seat?

I found an article saying she had turned 2 in February, so 27 months?
 
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Tw...nd-in-Hot-Car-in-Parker-County-424686924.html

This link says there will be a "lengthy investigation".

The home looks nice, the car is a nice newer car.

I think the girl could have helped the boy climb into the car. If they did have they keys, they probably pushed the buttons on the key fob and locked the doors.

The main issue is that they were clearly unsupervised for a long period of time. They had to get out of the house, to the car, in the car, and be in the car long enough to be deceased. Mom had to have been asleep or impaired in some way.

Given the time of day, they could have all been having an afternoon nap but the kids woke up first.

I'm interested in the outcome of the investigation. I feel so bad for their families.
 

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