Found Deceased TX - Thomas Brown, 18, Hemphill County, 23 Nov 2016 #3

[LRDenton]

The point about them claiming they believe he was hiding in Denver is excellent. I've never come across a case like this one that has me questioning involvement in both directions, there's so many bizarre details that don't make sense.

Does anyone recall the TBB podcast episode where PM mentions a church CCTV camera showing the three cars leave the middle school, each in a different direction? If so, I'd appreciate a rough timestamp too. I think she said she didn't see it herself but the church assistant watched it, but then the church got hit by lightning and the footage was destroyed. Also, which church is it? There's two by the school - Central Baptist and Locust Grove.

I'm starting to question whether this even really happened or whether it was actually Thomas filling up with gas. Last question, did any of Tom's two friends (C or K) ever confirm that Tom got in his Durango and definitely left the school parking lot at the same time as them both?

 

[OutWest]

The point about them claiming they believe he was hiding in Denver is excellent. I've never come across a case like this one that has me questioning involvement in both directions, there's so many bizarre details that don't make sense.

Does anyone recall the TBB podcast episode where PM mentions a church CCTV camera showing the three cars leave the middle school, each in a different direction? If so, I'd appreciate a rough timestamp too. I think she said she didn't see it herself but the church assistant watched it, but then the church got hit by lightning and the footage was destroyed. Also, which church is it? There's two by the school - Central Baptist and Locust Grove.

I'm starting to question whether this even really happened or whether it was actually Thomas filling up with gas. Last question, did any of Tom's two friends (C or K) ever confirm that Tom got in his Durango and definitely left the school parking lot at the same time as them both?

You are so correct that there are so many unanswered questions in all directions. The case may never be satisfactorily solved short of some miracle evidence coming to light that would connect many missing links. It is like a jigsaw puzzle with only perimeter pieces in place; the full picture may never come to light until the "connecting" center puzzle pieces are in place. One thing is for sure .... evidence clearly indicates that there were others involved in some manner; somebody knows the truth.

The church CCTV issue was either from the Methodist Church or the Presbyterian Church, I'm not sure which. I recall some controversy regarding which building the camera was on and whether the camera could actually pick up an image through two blocks of trees. Tree leaves would have dropped by late November so it could be possible to see headlights. (see attached map)

It is my understanding that both CW and KK were interrogated intensely at some point as well as phone record searches. They were reportedly cleared. Each were at their respective homes when PM called their parents at approximately 1:00 AM. Both joined in the initial search at approximately 1:20-1:30 AM, reportedly.

Of course, just IMO and based solely on info that is publicly known.

 

[buyerninety]

@OutWest
You seem to have a good grasp on all the info.
Do you have any knowledge of the exact spot
the (possible .25 ACP handgun) zippered case
was found along Lake Marvin Road, and was it
on the north side like the backpack or on the
south side like the iPhone ?

I've had a google look at the east side of the
Pavilion, but didn't notice any video camera -
where is the location of the video camera
that caught the Durango entering the water
treatment plant (but that the AG's report
asserts didn't catch Sheriff Deputy Gregory's
vehicle that Tucker rode in) ?

 

[OutWest]

@OutWest
You seem to have a good grasp on all the info.
Do you have any knowledge of the exact spot
the (possible .25 ACP handgun) zippered case
was found along Lake Marvin Road, and was it
on the north side like the backpack or on the
south side like the iPhone ?

I've had a google look at the east side of the
Pavilion, but didn't notice any video camera -
where is the location of the video camera
that caught the Durango entering the water
treatment plant (but that the AG's report
asserts didn't catch Sheriff Deputy Gregory's
vehicle that Tucker rode in) ?

Good questions. I have never heard what exact location that the handgun case was found; only that it was along Lake Marvin Road. I too have looked at the Google Earth ground level at the pavilion and cannot see evidence of a camera from the 5/2014 Google Earth footage. Possibly installed after 5/2014?

 

[OutWest]

Good questions. I have never heard what exact location that the handgun case was found; only that it was along Lake Marvin Road. I too have looked at the Google Earth ground level at the pavilion and cannot see evidence of a camera from the 5/2014 Google Earth footage. Possibly installed after 5/2014?

Attached is a Google Earth street view photo from 5/2014. Also attached is a photo from KIC Facebook that was posted 5/2022. Obviously, there have been some modifications to the pavilion since the 5/2014 photo was taken. Note that the recent 5/2022 photo shows what appears to be a camera on the upper NE corner of the building. Security systems seldom install only one camera, so there are likely other cameras on the perimeter.

 

[buyerninety]

Thanks, it seems that that video camera might not
capture all or part of that '6th St' and 'N 6th St'
intersection and it seems apparent that a vehicle
would find it pretty easy to 'cut the corner' (south
west corner) of that intersection.
---
It's interesting to consider if someone was driving TB's
vehicle, to get rid of evidence and his body, the things
they would do. A person might decide to place the body
some way away from Canadian, where it may not be
found easily or at all - the spot about at the end of Lake
Marvin Lake Rd satisfies that, but what about the other
items in the car? The iPhone would be one of the items
a killer might choose to discard about firstly. The handgun
case also might as well go (interestingly, discarding the
case suggests the killer also discarded the handgun,
rather than keeping the handgun - otherwise, why
throw the case but not the handgun?). Once the killer
had left the body, on the drive back along Lake Marvin
Rd, I guess the killer got antsy about the backpack and
decided that now that the main items of the crime were
relivedly discarded, that the backpack might as well go
also ... which is why I suppose the killer pulled over on
the north (Right Hand Side returning back towards
Canadian) side of that road and discarded it. Now,
...what's the sure very first thing that the killer would
discard, even before the iPhone, though? That handgun,
surely most would agree. The iPhone was found on the
south side of, and near, the start of Lake Marvin Rd.
Where's the handgun?
OutWest has suggested it may be found "somewhere
beyond the barbed wire fence along Lake Marvin Rd".
Possible, but if the sequence seems reasonable, that
the handgun would probably be THE FIRST item the
killer would want to discard, then where did the killer
discard it? Prior to the start of Lake Marvin Rd, along
the I-60? Think about it, where's the place that guns
used in a killing act, tend to be disposed of into? A
river, often, and so that's where I figure the driver,
when he was driving north out of Canadian to get
rid of the body, probably tossed that .25 ACP handgun
into - the Canadian River, about 500 metres before
where the iPhone was found.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9354724,-100.3706161,3a,75y,72.65h,80.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL9QRHLKDBcyL4tDi5OZoOg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

There's a faint possibility that the handgun might be
found in the foilage on the bank by the river (if the
person throwing it out the vehicle window misjudged
their throw) but most likely it's down in the mud of
that river. Needs a strong magnet or a waterproof
metal detector to find it, checking a throws distance
off both east & west sides of the bridge.

 

[OutWest]

One of the few things that is in total agreement among all persons is that the phone was placed beside the road shortly prior to the Oct. 14, 2017 search. Essentially planted by some person ..... and that person wan not Thomas Brown. Therefore there are others involved.

IMO, if a "killer" had the phone it would have been busted up and disposed of, never to be found. However, that may not be the case if the phone came to be in the possession of a person(s) who was not directly involved but rather knew what happened and knew who was involved ..... somebody who was struggling with the emotion of a right/wrong decision; maybe a friend, relative, or parent of those involved. The scheduled search provided the perfect opportunity to anonymously get the phone into the hands of authorities, IMO.

IMO, whoever placed the phone, was not directly involved but knows the truth about what actually happened.

Some say that only LE, VFD, and KIC personnel knew the location of the search. I don't believe that for a minute. 1) Word spreads too fast in a small town; there are few real secrets, 2) the ~125 volunteer searchers were told to meet at the beginning of Lake Marvin Road, 3) The Lake Marvin area is THE outdoor public recreation place in Canadian where it all happens, especially with teens.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Regarding this case, I still cannot get over the "disappearing" footage.
I've never seen something scrubbed from the internet, let alone so quickly, the way the picture of Tom at the gas station was.
There are too many suspicious things here for this to be a suicide in my honest opinion. Suicides generally don't have a ton of conspiracies around them. Take for instance, Ellen Greenberg... lots of conspiracy surrounding the case, likely due to the fact it is not a suicide.
Just my two cents.

 

[OutWest]

Regarding this case, I still cannot get over the "disappearing" footage.
I've never seen something scrubbed from the internet, let alone so quickly, the way the picture of Tom at the gas station was.
There are too many suspicious things here for this to be a suicide in my honest opinion. Suicides generally don't have a ton of conspiracies around them. Take for instance, Ellen Greenberg... lots of conspiracy surrounding the case, likely due to the fact it is not a suicide.
Just my two cents.

Agree. Also, the "coincidental" loss of the critical CCTV video from the two most important locations while video from all other locations remained intact.

I simply go back to the very beginning when Tom and KK & CW agreed to meet the next evening at one of the homes. "I'll see you all tomorrow." Then, I cannot logically imagine that Tom's thoughts were, "Oops, its 11:30 pm so I must hurry to fill my Durango with 23 gallons of fuel because I plan to commit suicide before my curfew at midnight."

 

[NeverPersonal]

Agree. Also, the "coincidental" loss of the critical CCTV video from the two most important locations while video from all other locations remained intact.

I simply go back to the very beginning when Tom and KK & CW agreed to meet the next evening at one of the homes. "I'll see you all tomorrow." Then, I cannot logically imagine that Tom's thoughts were, "Oops, its 11:30 pm so I must hurry to fill my Durango with 23 gallons of fuel because I plan to commit suicide before my curfew at midnight."

You summed it up PERFECTLY especially with that last sentence. It would make zero sense.

 

[Leney]

Agree. Also, the "coincidental" loss of the critical CCTV video from the two most important locations while video from all other locations remained intact.

I simply go back to the very beginning when Tom and KK & CW agreed to meet the next evening at one of the homes. "I'll see you all tomorrow." Then, I cannot logically imagine that Tom's thoughts were, "Oops, its 11:30 pm so I must hurry to fill my Durango with 23 gallons of fuel because I plan to commit suicide before my curfew at midnight."

I will be blunter. The CCTV video was destroyed as per the TCOLE investigation.

Nathan Lewis as well falsified documents related to a missing persons investigation, again as per the TCOLE investigation.

 

[Leney]

I have not seen any evidence that a firearm was discharged in the vehicle only that there was a casing found inside the vehicle.
<modsnip>

I have seen no evidence that one was not discharged either.

 

[Leney]

If this is a suicide, Tom Brown's remains should of been released after all this time.

Why have they not been released?

I suspect that investigators know the family will have a second autopsy performed.
I know I would especially with all of the absolute ridiculous behavior by various agencies.

What are they hiding? What don't they wish the community to know?

 

[OutWest]

If this is a suicide, Tom Brown's remains should of been released after all this time.

Why have they not been released?

I suspect that investigators know the family will have a second autopsy performed.
I know I would especially with all of the absolute ridiculous behavior by various agencies.

What are they hiding? What don't they wish the community to know?

Leney, I agree that OAG is not totally convinced that suicide is involved. If they close the case as "suicide" there are a LOT of other questions that potentially point otherwise that must be explained ..... and they have no clear evidence to provide those troublesome answers.

Just my thoughts ..... OAG have not released the remains because they know there are a number of unanswered questions and suspicious actions, including some that could potentially uncover foul play and coverup. So, the case remains open. They know that there is as much evidence & circumstances that could point to foul play as there is that could point toward suicide. IMO, that is clear when a person considers ALL of the evidence, circumstances, and unanswered questions.

We know that OAG initially said there was absolutely no indicators of trauma to any portion of the remains. None at all. Zero. Then, about two years later the same OAG released information that indicated fractures to areas along the front and left side of the skull. They had a reason to withhold that information and then later disclose that information. I don't know what their reasoning was. It is 100% the prerogative of investigators to control what they disclose. We, the public, do not know what other information & evidence they are not disclosing publicly in order to maintain case integrity.

Bottom line: the frontal and side facial fractures conflict with a suicide theory and instead, may indicate foul play unless the fractures can logically be attributed to some other near-term event. Then, there is the spent 25 ACP casing, the discarded gun case, and of course the missing gun. More questions than answers. Case remains open .....

 

[Leney]

Leney, I agree that OAG is not totally convinced that suicide is involved. If they close the case as "suicide" there are a LOT of other questions that potentially point otherwise that must be explained ..... and they have no clear evidence to provide those troublesome answers.

Just my thoughts ..... OAG have not released the remains because they know there are a number of unanswered questions and suspicious actions, including some that could potentially uncover foul play and coverup. So, the case remains open. They know that there is as much evidence & circumstances that could point to foul play as there is that could point toward suicide. IMO, that is clear when a person considers ALL of the evidence, circumstances, and unanswered questions.

We know that OAG initially said there was absolutely no indicators of trauma to any portion of the remains. None at all. Zero. Then, about two years later the same OAG released information that indicated fractures to areas along the front and left side of the skull. They had a reason to withhold that information and then later disclose that information. I don't know what their reasoning was. It is 100% the prerogative of investigators to control what they disclose. We, the public, do not know what other information & evidence they are not disclosing publicly in order to maintain case integrity.

Bottom line: the frontal and side facial fractures conflict with a suicide theory and instead, may indicate foul play unless the fractures can logically be attributed to some other near-term event. Then, there is the spent 25 ACP casing, the discarded gun case, and of course the missing gun. More questions than answers. Case remains open .....

I agree completely OutWest.

The bottom line for me is that if they were willing to lie about the state of the remains, specifically the fractures or lack of them, what else have they not disclosed or flat out lied about ?

I do understand that they can refuse for investigative purposes to release information.

What they cannot do is lie with respect to autopsy results.

If the OAG was willing to state on the record that there was zero trauma to the skull, then make a 180 reversal on the fractures related to the skull, what other evidence have they misrepresented or lied about with respect to their investigation?

Their actions force me now to review with a very critical eye, any and all documents, interviews and statements released.

I had thought that there was only one locked gate into the area that TB's vehicle was found till I saw the video and realized that there were additional ones. I suspect that there will be another one close to IIRC 8th street.

You are correct with the "more questions than answers".

 

[artiyail]

We know that OAG initially said there was absolutely no indicators of trauma to any portion of the remains. None at all. Zero. Then, about two years later the same OAG released information that indicated fractures to areas along the front and left side of the skull.

Do you have a reference for this statement from OAG, it sounds familiar but I can't recall when/where it was said. Are you sure it wasn't actually them saying they cannot be sure any trauma lead to his death rather than no trauma at all?

Thanks.

 

[OutWest]

Do you have a reference for this statement from OAG, it sounds familiar but I can't recall when/where it was said. Are you sure it wasn't actually them saying they cannot be sure any trauma lead to his death rather than no trauma at all?

Thanks.

The recorded meeting held in Pampa on 8/2019. I believe one reference is at around 00:23:30. The answer to a question regarding whether there was any finding of damage to the skull; the response was no.

 

[Balloon light]

I have failed to understand how this could be a cover up by the family. If that were the case, why would the family call the friends and police so early on? Before they even had a chance to consider and execute a plan?

The phone and its case is the smoking gun for that theory but the aloofness by the Sheriff was apparent from the lag in response and the the first meeting Penny had Thanksgiving morning. It was pretty obvious when the car was returned it wasn’t viewed as a piece of evidence and returned promptly. It could be that the phone was found by the Meeks in the car but they failed to report it, especially as the authorities didn’t seem to care as much as they should about this missing teen. Perhaps she just quietly held on to it and later planted it to be found for forensics to discover what was on it after they were unable to access it themselves. The suicide hotline search on it would not help her case, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that Tom didn’t meet with foul play. <modsnip>

 

[OutWest]

I have failed to understand how this could be a cover up by the family. If that were the case, why would the family call the friends and police so early on? Before they even had a chance to consider and execute a plan?

The phone and its case is the smoking gun for that theory but the aloofness by the Sheriff was apparent from the lag in response and the the first meeting Penny had Thanksgiving morning. It was pretty obvious when the car was returned it wasn’t viewed as a piece of evidence and returned promptly. It could be that the phone was found by the Meeks in the car but they failed to report it, especially as the authorities didn’t seem to care as much as they should about this missing teen. Perhaps she just quietly held on to it and later planted it to be found for forensics to discover what was on it after they were unable to access it themselves. The suicide hotline search on it would not help her case, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that Tom didn’t meet with foul play. <modsnip>

IMO, regardless of whoever had possession of the phone, they:

1.) WANTED the phone to get into the hands of PROPER authorities so it could be forensically processed.
2.) had reason to do so anonymously (maybe to protect themselver or another person and/or avoid tampering charges)

The search provided the opportunity for that to happen.

 

[OutWest]

I agree, Balloon light …. the timelines simply do not fit when you consider all of the precisely coordinated activities that would have had to happen in order to spontaneously orchestrate such a coverup …. and all for the purpose of hiding a child’s suicide? Not to mention being able to plan and execute such a plan while under significant emotional stress. Nope. Didn’t happen, IMO.

I have watched a couple of “documentaries” on Netflix where the film crew was granted partial access to a defendant’s legal counsel discussions as well as their “behind the scenes” family life (for a fee, of course!). The documentaries provided the heartfelt appearance that the defendant was being so wrongly accused. So compelling. Then, you do some research and learn of the numerous facts that were consciously ignored by the producer/film crew …. all for the purpose of creating an illusion that supports their original narrative or objective.

If the “audience” hears ONLY certain selected parts or “facts” pertaining to the chosen narrative, then that storyline eventually becomes the “total truth” of what happened; at least to those who are willing to blindly believe. Politicians figured that out many years ago.

My point is that a “former state investigator” radio guest spent two full hours providing conjecture to support his reasons why he had concluded that the case involved suicide and an elaborate and endlessly ongoing family conspiracy to cover the suicide. Some of it highly imaginative. However, in order to arrive at his “conclusion”, IMO he had to consciously and conveniently ignore (or lightly brush-off) a significant number of other facts, circumstances, and unanswered questions that run counterintuitive to much of his foregone ”conclusion”.

I am only stating that there are far too many unanswered questions and suspicious circumstances throughout the case to arrive at any solid conclusion. A lot of reasonable doubt exists.