TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

[PrairieWind]

Thank you! I finally watched the documentary on PBS last night.

Inside the Uvalde Response | FRONTLINE

Watch FRONTLINE, ProPublica and The Texas Tribune's documentary reconstructing the chaotic response to the Uvalde school shooting and examining the missteps and lessons learned.

www.pbs.org

States Require Students to Prepare for Active Shooters More Often Than Officers. In Uvalde, It Showed. | FRONTLINE

Across the country, states require more training to prepare students and teachers for mass shootings than for those expected to protect them. The differences were clear in Uvalde, where children and officers waited on opposite sides of the door.

www.pbs.org

I'm in San Antonio, not too far away.
For a small town, Uvalde has lot of police officers.
They assist border patrol and are often engaged in high speed chases etc.
However, I'm sure they thought a mass shooting, "could not happen here".
However, I'm surprised Uvalde PD didn't have their own SWAT team or didn't assemble a SWAT team.

• When Uvalde CISD Police Chief (PA) gets to the scene, he doesn't have his radio
• Both Uvalde PD and Uvalde CISD Officers respond.
• Radios don't work inside the building (My comment: This is likely due to the way the emergency radio system was set up about 20 years prior. The Uvalde area is set up for outdoor transmission. Poor Police Radio Reception Caused Confusion in Texas School Shooting Response, Says Official )
• Some of the first to respond are shot at and they retreat.
• They know the subject has an AR-15
• In interviews with officers, many think it is someone trafficking drugs who is hiding and not a school shooter
• They don't have the safety equipment to approach a subject with an AR-15. (Uvalde PD appear to be armed with only handguns. Only one officer appears to have a vest. They don't have helmets etc)
• It's real quiet, some think maybe the students are at lunch. (I don't think there was any consensus on what was going on with the students because they don't have an incident commander. )
• Communication between the officers on the scene is not good because Uvalde CISD Chief doesn't have his radio and because radio transmission is poor in the school.
• Uvalde PD radios dispatch, that they have a barricaded subject.

• Around this time in real life, I'm following it on a local MSM network affiliate and I'm reading that there is a barricaded subject at a school and it sounds like it's under control. I thought maybe he was in area where students were not present.

• As more LEO arrive, they eventually realize they don't have an incident commander.
• No one is in charge.
• An Uvalde CISD officer arrives and says his wife is shot in the classroom
• A student calls 911
• They are also looking for a room key. (MOO and known from my HS principal hubby: School safety officers should carry room keys.)
• Border Patrol SWAT team arrives with bullet proof vests, helmets, shields and rifles.
• Communication is hampered between local LE and Border Patrol.
• They still can't get in the class because they don't have a key
• Somehow they obtain a key and breach the room

In MOO: Based on interviews, Uvalde CISD Police Chief, (PA) really seems to be bumbling.
Also I didn't see much of Texas DPS in the documentary. 91 Texas state troopers responded to the Uvalde massacre. Their bosses have deflected scrutiny and blame.

I have some questions. I hadn't heard that some thought this was a drug trafficker. Nor that they thought that the students were at lunch. If so, both point to poor training. The video shows officers with rifles there pretty quickly. Most officers are equipped with them. Why these officers didn't have ballistics vests is another question.

A small town is going to have a higher number of officers per capita than a city, just because of the numbers. Small towns typically don't have their own SWAT teams but instead coordinate and cooperate in agreements with County and State agencies for those capabilities.

I have spent a good portion of my life living in small towns, smaller than Uvalde. And their officers seem better trained and equipped than these guys. Why? It has been years since I have seen a patrol officer without a ballistic vest, or a patrol car without an AR.

I don't think the failure of Uvalde CISD can be overstated. It not only failed on the day of the shooting, it failed in the days, weeks, months, years ahead. Did they not know they had communication issues? Did they not know they didn't have keys? Did they not know building schedules? Chief Arradondo seems to have been just collecting a paycheck and was doing less than the bare minimum with his time. I blame him, I blame the school board for allowing it.

 

[Friday Fan]

I hadn't heard that some thought this was a drug trafficker.

The Uvalde PD is more or less an extension of border patrol. They engage in routine high speed chases, which they call "bailouts". Generally the "bailouts" involve a certain subset of immigrants. (smugglers) I read they sometimes abandon their vehicles and runoff and hide on foot.


Snips for emphasis:

Frequent lockdowns may have contributed to Uvalde tragedy

Nearly two months after a deadly shooting a Texas elementary school, a Texas House of Representatives committee report found that nearly 400 officers from local, state and federal agencies responded to the 77-minute rampage in which 19 kids and two teachers died.

apnews.com

An entire generation of students in America has grown up simulating lockdowns for active shooters, or worse, experiencing the real thing. But in South Texas, another unique kind of classroom lockdown occurs along the state’s 1,200-mile southern border: hunkering down because Border Patrol agents or state police are chasing migrants who are trying to evade apprehension.

The frequency of lockdowns and security alerts in Uvalde — nearly 50 between February and May alone, according to school officials — are now viewed by investigators as one of the tragic contributors to how a gunman was able to walk into a fourth-grade classroom unobstructed and slaughter 19 children and two teachers.

The new findings that a culture of lockdowns in Uvalde played some role in the failures on May 24 reflects how one of the worst school shootings in U.S. history intersected with immigration policies and thousands of Border Patrol agents, National Guard members and state police assigned to apprehend migrants and stop drug traffickers. Of the nearly 400 law enforcement officers at the scene of Robb Elementary, more than half were Border Patrol agents or state police, according to the report.

The committee report said there had been no incidents of “bailout-related” violence on Uvalde school campuses before the shooting. High-speed driving sometimes crossed school parking lots, according to the report, which also said some pursuits involved firearms in surrounding neighborhoods.

__________________

I read that although the schools were frequently on lockdown, a bailout suspect had never previously entered the inside of a school. They were prepared for "bailouts", but they weren't prepared for active shooters.

 

[rabidstoat]

The actual report has been released by the DoJ, but I can't find it anywhere.

Does anyone have a link to the full report?

 

[Friday Fan]

The actual report has been released by the DoJ, but I can't find it anywhere.

Does anyone have a link to the full report?

Can't find an actual report. Washington Post has a decent article. (Gifted, not paywall)
Report will probably show up...Apparently it's 575 pages long.

https://wapo.st/3S6W6FP

DOJ Presser is live. (Started a few minutes ago)

WATCH LIVE: DOJ news conference on law enforcement response to Uvalde school shooting

The Justice Department says police officials who responded to the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, “demonstrated no urgency” in setting up a command post and failed to treat the killings as an active shooter situation.

www.ksat.com

 

[Kaley Smith]

It was a failure in so many areas, but I think these are mainly just covering the main failure which was a lack of courage. I just heard on CNN that some of the officers might be facing criminal charges AND the attorney general just said it is likely the door of the classroom where the most shooting happened was not even locked. I have a friend who is a recently retired RCMP officer here in Canada. Their orders are very clear if they face an active shooter. Stop and disable the shooter ASAP by whatever means possible.

 

[sds71]

Justice Department Releases Report on its Critical Incident Review of the Response to the Mass Shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas

Critical Incident Review: Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, TX | COPS OFFICE

cops.usdoj.gov

 

[Kaley Smith]

No one had the courage to try the door? Uvalde Classroom Door Wasn’t Locked—And Police Didn’t Try To Open It Without A Key, Texas Law Enforcement Official Testifies

 

[PrairieWind]

It was a failure in so many areas, but I think these are mainly just covering the main failure which was a lack of courage. I just heard on CNN that some of the officers might be facing criminal charges AND the attorney general just said it is likely the door of the classroom where the most shooting happened was not even locked. I have a friend who is a recently retired RCMP officer here in Canada. Their orders are very clear if they face an active shooter. Stop and disable the shooter ASAP by whatever means possible.

The Texas PS report last year indicated that the door was not locked. The Director then pointed out that the response was against all active shooter protocols to stop a school shooter. You can have all the best policies in the world. But in the end, it comes down to individuals and whether they will carry them out.... or not.

 

[Kaley Smith]

The Texas PS report last year indicated that the door was not locked. The Director then pointed out that the response was against all active shooter protocols to stop a school shooter. You can have all the best policies in the world. But in the end, it comes down to individuals and whether they will carry them out.... or not.

I only thought of this now as I saw the pictures and heard the names of the victims. The majority are Spanish. Would the response have been faster if the kids had been white? or is that BS because most of the officers would also have been non-white? I'm Canadian so I know a huge issue here is that indigenous people have not been protected as well as others by law enforcement.

 

[PrairieWind]

I only thought of this now as I saw the pictures and heard the names of the victims. The majority are Spanish. Would the response have been faster if the kids had been white? or is that BS because most of the officers would also have been non-white? I'm Canadian so I know a huge issue here is that indigenous people have not been protected as well as others by law enforcement.

Most of the officers were Hispanic. Uvalde is largely Hispanic. The shooter was Hispanic. I don't think race had anything to do with this.

 

[Friday Fan]

I only thought of this now as I saw the pictures and heard the names of the victims. The majority are Spanish. Would the response have been faster if the kids had been white? or is that BS because most of the officers would also have been non-white? I'm Canadian so I know a huge issue here is that indigenous people have not been protected as well as others by law enforcement.

Part of the problem: The school district chief of police had just won a city counsel election several weeks earlier on May 6th and was getting ready to be sworn into his new office. Something tells me that he was distracted. I saw interviews with him and he seemed to too jovial to me and the way he says, "I forgot my radios", just tells me that he was distracted.

It's also a small town with an "it can't happen here" mentality. Most of their crime involves immigration of sorts. They thought it was an immigrant who was running through town and was hiding out in the school, not a deranged school shooter.

 

[ilovewings]

I have some questions. I hadn't heard that some thought this was a drug trafficker. Nor that they thought that the students were at lunch. If so, both point to poor training. The video shows officers with rifles there pretty quickly. Most officers are equipped with them. Why these officers didn't have ballistics vests is another question.

A small town is going to have a higher number of officers per capita than a city, just because of the numbers. Small towns typically don't have their own SWAT teams but instead coordinate and cooperate in agreements with County and State agencies for those capabilities.

I have spent a good portion of my life living in small towns, smaller than Uvalde. And their officers seem better trained and equipped than these guys. Why? It has been years since I have seen a patrol officer without a ballistic vest, or a patrol car without an AR.

I don't think the failure of Uvalde CISD can be overstated. It not only failed on the day of the shooting, it failed in the days, weeks, months, years ahead. Did they not know they had communication issues? Did they not know they didn't have keys? Did they not know building schedules? Chief Arradondo seems to have been just collecting a paycheck and was doing less than the bare minimum with his time. I blame him, I blame the school board for allowing it.

I hear ya! Just heartbreaking beyond words! Disgraceful on the part of all who participated in this what can only be described as a debacle--Is there any consequences for some of these people like Chief Arradondo and the school board? and what about the officers who stood around picked their noses while children were getting murdered. It is almost too much to comprehend the depth of the negligence which IMO rises to the level in some cases of criminal negligence.

 

[cujenn81]

Here is another gifted article.


Justice Department Finds ‘Unimaginable Failure’ in Uvalde Police Response

The “most significant failure,” investigators concluded, was the decision by local police officials to classify the incident as a barricaded standoff rather than an “active-shooter” scenario, which would have demanded instant and aggressive action. Almost all of the officials in charge that day have already been fired or have retired.

The federal report puts a particular focus on the actions of law enforcement officials in the aftermath of the massacre, and outlines another set of mistakes and failures, including a disorganized system for tracking the whereabouts of students, which led to confusion over whether they were safe, and to one instance in which a parent of one victim was given false hope that the child was still alive.

Investigators also identified repeated incidents, captured on body cameras, of officials and other onlookers roaming through the school in the days after the shooting, forcing crime scene investigators to “continually stop” their evidence collection.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Apparently the DOJ has no jurisdiction to prosecute. It’s up to the Texas Attorney General, who has had the same info as the DOJ - for a year! And nothing has been done. Just staring at the ground and kicking rocks. As did the officers the day the kids were slaughtered.

jmo

 

[airportwoman]

I only thought of this now as I saw the pictures and heard the names of the victims. The majority are Spanish. Would the response have been faster if the kids had been white? or is that BS because most of the officers would also have been non-white? I'm Canadian so I know a huge issue here is that indigenous people have not been protected as well as others by law enforcement.

For 9 1/2 years, I said many times that if something like Sandy Hook happened in a poverty-stricken area, to mostly black, Hispanic, and/or Muslim kids, it would probably barely be a blip on the news, and hoped that my theory would never be proven right or wrong. TBH, I'm surprised it's stayed in the news as extensively as it has, for precisely this reason.

This mass murder happened on an Indian reservation and doesn't get any press nowadays either, although tribal issues may be a factor.

Red Lake shootings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

No one had the courage to try the door? Uvalde Classroom Door Wasn’t Locked—And Police Didn’t Try To Open It Without A Key, Texas Law Enforcement Official Testifies

IIRC I remember a news report last year mentioning too that they actually spent a considerable amount of time looking for the janitor because he had the master key (I think the principal did too but she was already evacuated) but not even a minute was spared to check if the door was even locked?

I remember thinking it was pretty unbelievable also that no one even bothered to try to touch or jiggle the door knob considering it was reported that Chief Arredondo stood right outside the classroom door as he tried to communicate with the shooter and that after a certain point many of the first responders were equipped with shields, helmets and their own weapons and could have also tried to breach the door themselves.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Most of the officers were Hispanic. Uvalde is largely Hispanic. The shooter was Hispanic. I don't think race had anything to do with this.

I couldn’t help but wonder if it is possible that the type of guns involved that may have played a role in LE’s disastrous response? From what I understand the gunman carried AR-15s, which IMO extremely intimidating and deadly military-rifles that were said to have enabled a single soldier to take out a team of enemy combatants entirely on their own during the War in Iraq. Not that I am trying to stir up politics or a debate but if local LE doesn’t feel well equipped or trained enough to neutralize or challenge a shooter with such a terrifying weapon (which can be understandable) perhaps it would be safer for the local community that those type of guns were not sold there or at least not sold willy nilly to just any 18 year old or new gun user who logically should have no reason to need such a gun while living in Uvalde. JMO and food for thought for Abbot

“He has a battle rifle”: Police feared Uvalde gunman’s AR-15

In previously unreleased interviews, police who responded to the Robb Elementary shooting told investigators they were cowed by the shooter’s military-style rifle. This drove their decision to wait for a Border Patrol SWAT team to engage him, which took more than an hour.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Megnut]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/us/takeaways-doj-uvalde-report/index.html

 

[PrairieWind]

I couldn’t help but wonder if it is possible that the type of guns involved that may have played a role in LE’s disastrous response? From what I understand the gunman carried AR-15s, which IMO extremely intimidating and deadly military-rifles that were said to have enabled a single soldier to take out a team of enemy combatants entirely on their own during the War in Iraq. Not that I am trying to stir up politics or a debate but if local LE doesn’t feel well equipped or trained enough to neutralize or challenge a shooter with such a terrifying weapon (which can be understandable) perhaps it would be safer for the local community that those type of guns were not sold there or at least not sold willy nilly to just any 18 year old or new gun user who logically should have no reason to need such a gun while living in Uvalde. JMO and food for thought for Abbot

“He has a battle rifle”: Police feared Uvalde gunman’s AR-15

In previously unreleased interviews, police who responded to the Robb Elementary shooting told investigators they were cowed by the shooter’s military-style rifle. This drove their decision to wait for a Border Patrol SWAT team to engage him, which took more than an hour.

www.texastribune.org

The responding officers would be well familiar with AR-15s. In my area, patrol officers have an AR in their cars (it has largely replaced the shotgun). I don't know about how different law enforcement agencies in Texas arm their officers, but you can see in the video that within just a few minutes a couple of responding officers had ARs. So within minutes the responders were just as well armed as the shooter. And these officers would have been far better trained with that weapon than the shooter. I don't think the weapon itself is much of a factor as is the total failure of command and control on the scene, and incompetency of on scene leaders.

 

[mickey2942]

It shows a lack of training, which comes from the top. This job is more than cruising around, giving out tickets. It looks like crucial training on this type of scenario was missing.

They have "catastrophe" training in our town, and routinely ask for volunteers to assist, as wounded, or part of the crowd, this happens in the summer, and is quite popular. I have participated, and we found a lot of issues in regards to coordination between various agencies, even within the city, school district, that were identified.

Each city, even a small one, should set aside funds for providing an extensive, multi agency training. At least once a year, to hopefully, address issues that occur.