UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #19

[Amonet]

I agree, unless he was very inexperienced. And I still don't get why it took 20 mins in that area. And paperwork, what paperwork? Putting a tick in a box? Tacos etc are done before and after aren't they? Eating a bacon butty, reading the paper, scratching his arse, dragging the job out, something wrong with the truck, phoning the depot because a bin is unusually heavy, checking social media, interating with a drunk, any of those things I might believe. But paperwork? Still I guess it must all be so on cctv, and whether it is usual for the job it to take that long or comparison to other days.

But if you found a body in a bin why wouldn't you call the police?

20 mins in mentioned below, it is also on the timelines on the earlier threads. Though I'm not sure how accurate that it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2709304/corrie-mckeague-missing-rubbish-dump-search/

I think that the times were unclear quite often, and maybe Midsummer, who made the timelines on here, had got 4 am from one source and 4.20 am from another source, so he was conjecturing why the binman was in the horseshoe for 20 minutes. But we don't have any solid evidence he was there for 20 minutes (Nicola said around 4 minutes, which sounds more reasonable) let alone doing paperwork for 20 minutes.

 

[Amonet]

I've just briefly heard in BBC tv local news for Eadt Anglia that the bin was 809kg!! Can't see a link and I'm late going out. Can anyone find this please?

Maybe they said A hundred and nine and you misheard?

We don't seem to have an exact figure from SP though, only "more than 100kg". I don't think there's anything behind that lack of precision other than the police often release ballpark figures for things.

 

[pinklilies]

No link so I should have said imo but it is the only logical conclusion. He must have been in the recycling due to the weight of bin and the phone pings. Had the waste been processed at a recycling depot he would have been spotted.

I agree it's logical but according to the Sun it was sorted:

Nothing was spotted at the waste sorting site, where its incinerators burn at 1,100C – too low to destroy bones which break down at 1,600C.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2709304/corrie-mckeague-missing-rubbish-dump-search/

That's why I asked if he was somehow in a general waste bin. If he was in a bin at all.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If the recycling did not go through the correct procedure, would there be grounds for corporate manslaughter?

IMO there could be because the waste company would have a licence based on certain safeguards and procedures. If those have not been followed then there should be an investigation.

 

[Reallyodd]

I agree it's logical but according to the Sun it was sorted:

Nothing was spotted at the waste sorting site, where its incinerators burn at 1,100C – too low to destroy bones which break down at 1,600C.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2709304/corrie-mckeague-missing-rubbish-dump-search/

That's why I asked if he was somehow in a general waste bin. If he was in a bin at all.

The Sun have got it wrong because it's not sorted at the incinerator site and recycling doesn't go there anyway. It appears that recycling is sorted at the Biffa site and does not seem to have been done. It just doesn't add up at all.

 

[FlashyHydra]

I still cannot see why Corrie would put himself into a bin? In cctv he wasn't that drunk anymore and did not walk like one. But could it be, that he was feeling like a trash?! His weekend obviously wasn't much of a success since he ended up wandering alone....so, he decided to take a chance in a bin to get a lift to...where?!

To be honest that sounds absolutely crazy, so at this point I still believe in foul play...one way or the other. Those bins cannot fly by themselves, eh?!

:kickcan:

 

[pinklilies]

The Sun have got it wrong because it's not sorted at the incinerator site and recycling doesn't go there anyway. It appears that recycling is sorted at the Biffa site and does not seem to have been done. It just doesn't add up at all.

Ok thanks. I've not read the links regarding what gets delivered where, by whom or the process at each site etc.


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[Coach]

I agree, unless he was very inexperienced. And I still don't get why it took 20 mins in that area. And paperwork, what paperwork? Putting a tick in a box? Tacos etc are done before and after aren't they? Eating a bacon butty, reading the paper, scratching his arse, dragging the job out, something wrong with the truck, phoning the depot because a bin is unusually heavy, checking social media, interating with a drunk, any of those things I might believe. But paperwork? Still I guess it must all be so on cctv, and whether it is usual for the job it to take that long or comparison to other days.

But if you found a body in a bin why wouldn't you call the police?

20 mins in mentioned below, it is also on the timelines on the earlier threads. Though I'm not sure how accurate that it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2709304/corrie-mckeague-missing-rubbish-dump-search/

Is it possible that he was inexperienced and accidentally reversed into Corrie, panicked and rather than do the sensible thing by calling the Police he thought he could get away with it? Has anyone noticed that the Daily Star had an article but they have removed it. Google DA (put in the full name not initials)and Corrie McKeague and you will see the article with photo but when you try and access they have removed it.

 

[JudgeMental]

It's very puzzling. Do they think that Corrie got into the cardboard recycling bin, or one of the landfill waste bins?

Here's a January post from the Find Corrie site:

http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/the-bin-lorrys-refuse-sites-update-5th-january-2017/

It seems very clear that the bin they were investigating was the cardboard waste bin. That's the one that they originally thought weighed 11kg. But it states quite clearly that that bin was taken to the recycling centre (not the landfill site) and that therefore, if Corrie was in the bin, he'd have been found at that point.

Now the police seem to be saying that Corrie was in a bin that was taken directly to landfill. Yet they are also talking about the discrepancy between the original weight (11kg) and what they now know to be the correct weight (more than 100kg). So assuming that they are talking about the same bin, i.e. the cardboard recycling, then it should have gone to the recycling centre, not landfill. So something strange is going on.

 

[Coach]

Why did they consistently say that C would have been found as the process means that bones cannot be burned at the temperature etc etc. If the lorry had collected recycling surely it should not have gone to the landfill? I have read in articles today that it was Biffa that informed the Police an error had been made with the weight. They certainly have questions to answer, don't they.

 

[kyliebee]

I'm actually furious this morning, if that poor boy was in a recycling bin and that bin went straight to a landfill why the hell am I an everyone else in this area recycling on a daily basis! It obviously doesn't matter and the fact we have to pay for extra recycling and rubbish bags but it's all going to the same place now is it?! There needs to of be some serious checks in this area if it is the case! What makes it worse is poor poor Corrie, his mother won't be able to see and say good bye to her baby not after six months, if he had been found through sorting at least she could have had all of her child to bury, terribly he might not ever be found whole now or ever even discovered if it was foul play or not. I'm disgusted honestly

 

[Coach]

I'm not convinced that C got in the bin voluntarily. How long after he turned it into the HS did the lorry arrive? I suppose if it was over half an hour than it is possible he got in the bin to sleep but have we been given an accurate time of the lorry arriving. Could the lorry have reversed into him? Was the lorry definitely in the HS for 20mins? So many questions. Why has it taken Biffa so long to discover that an error was made, have they only just revealed this because of the search and what is possibly going to be found..

 

[Coach]

I'm actually furious this morning, if that poor boy was in a recycling bin and that bin went straight to a landfill why the hell am I an everyone else in this area recycling on a daily basis! It obviously doesn't matter and the fact we have to pay for extra recycling and rubbish bags but it's all going to the same place now is it?! There needs to of be some serious checks in this area if it is the case! What makes it worse is poor poor Corrie, his mother won't be able to see and say good bye to her baby not after six months, if he had been found through sorting at least she could have had all of her child to bury, terribly he might not ever be found whole now or ever even discovered if it was foul play or not. I'm disgusted honestly

I agree, if they are putting the recycling right to the landfill then they certainly have questions to answer. Surely this will cause an outrage in BSE and other places as well. Was this a cover up? Imagine all the money involved in the searches, all the people that helped by volunteering and the endless months of anxiety and devastation on Corrie's family. Why has it taken so long for the 'error' to be discovered. If the company that is paid to collect the bin have not been doing their job right then they need to be questioned. I am still not convinced that the driver did not know he was in the bin. Errors have been made and there could be more to surface yet. They have constantly appealed for people to be identified, only last week they were still asking for people to identify the man in McDonalds. People have been named and shamed as well as being blasted on social media for even suggesting that the bin weight was wrong. An absolute disgrace.

 

[Coach]

What responsibility would the Council have to ensure that all the recycling and waste collected by private firms are taken to where they should be? How many other bins are being emptied and taken the the wrong place, a shortcut to save costs by the company perhaps? We are all encouraged to recycle everything at home and businesses will be paying really high rates etc, surely to goodness the company concerned should be taking recycling through the correct process? I'm absolutely in disbelief.

 

[FlashyHydra]

I'm actually furious this morning, if that poor boy was in a recycling bin and that bin went straight to a landfill why the hell am I an everyone else in this area recycling on a daily basis! It obviously doesn't matter and the fact we have to pay for extra recycling and rubbish bags but it's all going to the same place now is it?!

Very good point there. That would explain all the wrong info and the possible cover-up...just like Corrie's father said.

 

[altojack]

Maybe they said A hundred and nine and you misheard?

We don't seem to have an exact figure from SP though, only "more than 100kg". I don't think there's anything behind that lack of precision other than the police often release ballpark figures for things.

I wound the programme back and the woman reading the report definitely said 800kg. (809kg was my typo). Whether she made an error in her reading of the report I've no idea.

This makes me think, if she gave the correct figure, this weight would refer to a general waste bin surely, and would this not go direct to landfill.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

If the recycling did not go through the correct procedure, would there be grounds for corporate manslaughter?

IMO there could be because the waste company would have a licence based on certain safeguards and procedures. If those have not been followed then there should be an investigation.

As I said in a previous post this is far from over even if they do find Corrie. NU hardly seems like a woman to let things drop and appears like a very determined lady. She is right! now is the time to concentrate on finding CM.Any investigation private or otherwise for possible corporate negligence will come at a later date. I still think there is more to all of this than meets the eye. Just none of it rings true from beginning to end.

 

[DaveShu]

It's very puzzling. Do they think that Corrie got into the cardboard recycling bin, or one of the landfill waste bins?

Here's a January post from the Find Corrie site:

http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/the-bin-lorrys-refuse-sites-update-5th-january-2017/

It seems very clear that the bin they were investigating was the cardboard waste bin. That's the one that they originally thought weighed 11kg. But it states quite clearly that that bin was taken to the recycling centre (not the landfill site) and that therefore, if Corrie was in the bin, he'd have been found at that point.

Now the police seem to be saying that Corrie was in a bin that was taken directly to landfill. Yet they are also talking about the discrepancy between the original weight (11kg) and what they now know to be the correct weight (more than 100kg). So assuming that they are talking about the same bin, i.e. the cardboard recycling, then it should have gone to the recycling centre, not landfill. So something strange is going on.

This is why I think there could still be foul play involved, and why the Police need to determine if the model of phone on the same network Corrie had can transmit out the back of that metal bin truck waste area.

The route went from BSE towards Barton mills where the incinerator is located, and where rubbish ofr recycling goes, and it's at this point the phone stopped working.

But they're searching a landfill site 20 odd miles away that the recycled stuff doesn't go to.

But it was definitely the 11Kg recycle bin that they had the wrong weight for.

So why / how could he have ended up at the landfill instead?

The obvious [this is purely hypothetical, not an accusation] thing that springs to mind is if the driver did know CM was in the truck, he'd know he'd be found at the incinerator, but maybe not at the landfill, so took him there instead.

Or took him somewhere totally different.

If the truck DID visit the incinerator but CM wasn't found in that sorting process, then maybe he had to have been in the cab of the truck, or have been dumped by that point.

Surely the truck has to go over a weighbridge at each dump - that should be illuminating?

<modsnip>

 

[janerodger1]

I'm still a bit unsure of hwo they can be confident that the revised weight is the correct one while at the same saying the original weight was a genuine mistake.

I don't buy it, either they actually weigh the bins or they don't, if they do what's the process to record this info and why did no-one at Biffa say before now that it could be wrong. I don't believe no one knew it could be wrong, if you're the person who records the weight it's unbelievable to me that you wouldn't mention it could be wrong at any point in the police investigation

If they don't weigh the bins then they can't be sure of what the correct weight was even now.

It still doesn't ring true for me

Unless Greggs weigh their rubbish.

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[Amonet]

If the recycling did not go through the correct procedure, would there be grounds for corporate manslaughter?

IMO there could be because the waste company would have a licence based on certain safeguards and procedures. If those have not been followed then there should be an investigation.

I don't think there's a case for that particular charge. The cause of death would be the bin lorry, and Biffa appear to have put in reasonable procedures to try to prevent this from happening.

After that it's about the procedures that failed to notice Corrie after the incident had happened. But that's not manslaughter, and we don't even know if there was any negligence...as long as they followed their usual procedures I doubt it could be criminal negligence.

There 'might' be a question mark over the driver and whether he knocked on the side of the bin or if he was watching the camera footage as the bin was tipped. At the end of the day it's a rubbish bin, so it depends on how much the law expects of a person emptying a bin and whether or not the company taught them to use those safeguards. If the safeguards failed, it's no one's fault. An inquiry could be held to require certain safeguards by law, but at the moment they're probably voluntary.

It depends exactly what happened. It depends exactly what the law says on the matter...I'm not an expert, I'm just thinking about it and typing as I think. You can either agree or disagree with my thoughts, but I doubt there's any cause for corporate level charges, and I don't know who'd be charged if the people involved in each procedure weren't observant or missed a step...again at the end of the day their job is to process rubbish, not search for dead bodies mixed in with the waste. If they notice something, then they're obliged to notify the police, but if they don't notice anything...I don't know.