UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #9

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IMO if a person vanishes we only have 3 possible, 1 he did it of his own back by him self, 2 with help, or 3 unwillingly , IMO if it was unwillingly we would have some evidence, no DNA in loading bay that wold make me think that he at least left the loading bay willingly,

Regarding DNA I'd not expect it to be found in that area by the time it was processed. It had rained since and a huge amount of traffic (pedestrian and vehicular) will have moved over the area.
 
I think not only the DNA but if there's no witness sightings it makes unwillingly likely.

In my opinion if he binned the phone he wasn't either going awol or intended on ending his life. If he has the phone on him then we're looking at awol, a pre planned meeting (not directly in the horseshoe) or hitching a lift (although phone pings are opposite direction)

Sometimes I wonder if he went into the horseshoe to bin his phone opposed to pee.

Could be.

Don't forget AWOL is only opposed by TW.

He gave "two" examples. Pre planned or a guy that broke.

Broke.... no mates, sat in a doorway for two hours, mates with the kebab boy (who in a recent interview, didn't really claim to know him).

Everything must be looked at.
AWOL is a massive thing.
 
Hi, first-time poster here. My thoughts during the first couple of weeks of this case were that he walked towards Barton Mills on foot and had an accident. I still consider this a likely explanation.

I would rule out AWOL (why start an AWOL escape with excessive drinking?!), military abduction (he was in civvies on a night out in a non-military town) and gay hook-ups (he was straight) but I have a fairly open mind otherwise. I consider abduction of a sexual (rather than military) nature to be a possibility. My thoughts are as follows:

He sat down in the Hughes doorway (perhaps to bide time until his friends left Flex but perhaps not) and unintentionally fell asleep; when he awoke, he decided to make his own way home.
He then walked via the Horseshoe out of Bury. The fact that the Horseshoe is the final CCTV footage has given it unnecessary prominence. The police haven't said he couldn't have left by foot and I believe walking along Short Brackland is still a real possibility.
In a drunken state of mind he walked in the wrong direction (probably along the A1101) in the general Barton Mills/Mildenhall direction.
Given that he's a healthy guy, he probably walked at 3mph and the pings, which I believe suggest he left the Bury phone mast at around 4.30, would support this. (Occam's razor would suggest that he and his phone were still together - I think it's unlikely they got lost in different directions!)
Between 4.30 and 5.00-ish he was outside the scope of both the Bury or Barton Mills masts - if either of these masts had a range of 3-5 miles, the distance walked between these times may only be 1-3 miles.
If he had sobered up sufficiently when he realised he'd made a wrong turn, he may have decided to continue to the nearest town, i.e. Mildenhall, rather than walk the 15+ miles to Honington. This would have made it easier to catch a taxi or bus back to base.
Corrie may have changed his route to avoid the footpath-less and verge-less A1101 from either Lackford or Icklingham onwards. Assuming he had his phone and he had sobered up a bit by now, he would be able to check his map app and find an alternative route. Many of the footpaths near Lackford are near lakes and the main footpath from Icklingham to Barton Mills is by the River Lark and grazed by intimidating cattle.
Corrie could have slipped into a lake or river, which would explain his disappearance and the timings of the mobile phone pings.
 
A missing person is not a criminal.

Websleuths is victim friendly. There is absolutely no need to trash a victim or their family.
 
Let's just take these suggestions a second. So,

1) phone binned - awol
2) phone binned -suicide
3) phone kept - awol
4) phone kept -pre planned meet
5) phone kept - hitched a lift

These are based on the assumption he wasn't unwillingly taken from the horseshoe based on DNA and witness statements that were aware of (as we don't know if anyone saw him)

Now let's cross off the ones the family deem impossible. Awol is a no, so lose 1 and 3. He has no mental health issues, goodbye 2. He couldn't leave the horseshoe unseen, laters option 5.

That leaves a pre planned lift either with a stranger or a friend.

We do know he would get in a car with a stranger and we do know he used dating apps (whether Grindr or not) we also know he would knew usaf at mildenhall.

May be why the family are adamant there's third party but it would have to be a vehicle that enters that horseshoe.

I don't agree that awol and mental health arent a possibilty and I also don't agree he couldn't have walked out so for me it's wide open. But I guess it may be some kind of insight to the thoughts of the family and why many people (except Nicola) believe he's gone.
 
Hi, first-time poster here. My thoughts during the first couple of weeks of this case were that he walked towards Barton Mills on foot and had an accident. I still consider this a likely explanation.

I would rule out AWOL (why start an AWOL escape with excessive drinking?!), military abduction (he was in civvies on a night out in a non-military town) and gay hook-ups (he was straight) but I have a fairly open mind otherwise. I consider abduction of a sexual (rather than military) nature to be a possibility. My thoughts are as follows:

He sat down in the Hughes doorway (perhaps to bide time until his friends left Flex but perhaps not) and unintentionally fell asleep; when he awoke, he decided to make his own way home.
He then walked via the Horseshoe out of Bury. The fact that the Horseshoe is the final CCTV footage has given it unnecessary prominence. The police haven't said he couldn't have left by foot and I believe walking along Short Brackland is still a real possibility.
In a drunken state of mind he walked in the wrong direction (probably along the A1101) in the general Barton Mills/Mildenhall direction.
Given that he's a healthy guy, he probably walked at 3mph and the pings, which I believe suggest he left the Bury phone mast at around 4.30, would support this. (Occam's razor would suggest that he and his phone were still together - I think it's unlikely they got lost in different directions!)
Between 4.30 and 5.00-ish he was outside the scope of both the Bury or Barton Mills masts - if either of these masts had a range of 3-5 miles, the distance walked between these times may only be 1-3 miles.
If he had sobered up sufficiently when he realised he'd made a wrong turn, he may have decided to continue to the nearest town, i.e. Mildenhall, rather than walk the 15+ miles to Honington. This would have made it easier to catch a taxi or bus back to base.
Corrie may have changed his route to avoid the footpath-less and verge-less A1101 from either Lackford or Icklingham onwards. Assuming he had his phone and he had sobered up a bit by now, he would be able to check his map app and find an alternative route. Many of the footpaths near Lackford are near lakes and the main footpath from Icklingham to Barton Mills is by the River Lark and grazed by intimidating cattle.
Corrie could have slipped into a lake or river, which would explain his disappearance and the timings of the mobile phone pings.

A much more likely scenario in my opinion than an intentional or third party death (so premeditated or opportunistic attack) but I just don't know how likely it is to walk that far out of your way by accident drink or not.
 
IMO corrie was more Billy no mates on that night, mates from base maybe just more work aquantences then proper mates that you would tell things to, imo I'm thinking that his real mates were in his home town,
 
I admit that I have drunkenly walked in the wrong direction for miles, it happens. The two main routes from Bury to Honington involve the A134 or A143, which are both single-carriageway A-roads with villages every few miles. In the dark these would look similar to the A1101 towards Barton Mills, which is also a single-carriageway A-road with villages every few miles.
 
I admit that I have drunkenly walked in the wrong direction for miles, it happens. The two main routes from Bury to Honington involve the A134 or A143, which are both single-carriageway A-roads with villages every few miles. In the dark these would look similar to the A1101 towards Barton Mills, which is also a single-carriageway A-road with villages every few miles.

I've done this in the middle of the night on Oxford Street where there are signs everywhere. Not hard to believe someone would go the wrong direction in the dark countryside.
 
I'm sure either, although I heard a bit on the 5pm news on Thursday where Nicola said they had had a number of calls and one with a very strong lead that she has now passed over to the Police. Why not pass it on to her PI?


Any more info/link?
 
That was one of the standout things for me in the documentary. He said "Corrie is my friend" in early press ( https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19282...st-meal-before-he-vanished/amp/?client=safari ), if that was an accurate quote, the turnabout is remarkable.

In the circumstances, it's more understandable than remarkable imo

<modsnip>

IMO the guy viewed Corrie (as a regular at takeaway) in friendly terms, ie acquaintance (that he described as friend) then, 10 or so weeks further on after having been subject of much gossip and innuendo, his connection to Corrie was played down when asked the question for the doco.
 
Some additional observations, no idea if they're useful, other than possibly things people don't know?

1. Corrie chose to walk all the way from Flex up to Pizza Mama Mia. That's a dedicated walk, though I do understand making the effort to go your favorite kebab shop... Anyway, whilst the walk up is straightforward, he clearly chooses on his way back from Pizza Mama Mia to cross the road (to Brentgrovel) and head toward Hughes - basically, taking a different route to that he walked up minutes ago.

2. The police have had the rear Cornhill CCTV footage since at least Oct 5th. Described in the police 5th Oct update, the 3 teenagers are mentioned as being "being the Cornhill Walk center" who may have held information of activity "in Short Brackland". This means they were probably in the Cornhill staff car park, possibly taking a shortcut from Short Brackland to Well St (or vice versa). You can see why they might be reluctant to come forward initially, they were probably not really meant to be in that property, though it's clearly easy and not a big issue to use that as a shortcut. As you know, we have never been shown anything from the rear cam. However, with the teens being in that area at 4.20am, and with no other specific calls for people who were in Short Brack/Cornhill shopping centre staff car park, we can assume the camera either doesn't point at the road (so as to call on other witnesses seen walking or driving up/down it, of which we know of none) OR that there was no activity around 3.30am (Corrie's disappearance time). Or maybe means some other thing someone else can decipher.

3. There's a lot of activity around the 3.30am mark, with multiple people walking around the area. Yet you look at a time like 1.30am (eating kebab) and the streets look deserted. It's also interesting to note the interest in the "5am" unidentified people. I can understand wanting to identify people around the 3.30am mark, maybe even the 4.30am mark, but 5am? Well, I suppose... Anyway. We have Flex nightclub that closes at 3.30am (Corrie has moved away from this area). We have The Gym which is right next to The Grapes which closes at 3 or 3.30am (slim chance he intended to head over there after he'd eaten kebab at 2am?). There's also the Vision Nightclub on Station Hill that closes at 3.30am (though whether it's still running is open to question, I can't quite tell). It's not impossible to think someone may have left Vision once it closed to come down Short Brack and pick him up.

What I do feel this tells us tho, is that if there was any kind of horseshoe struggle, or if Corrie had walked home, pretty much in any direction from horseshoe, he would've been seen, by at least one or two people, but more likely by countless many. Yet no-one did. It seems 3.30am is a very busy time in Bury on a fri/sat night. 3 clubs all shut around the 3-3.30am mark so you've got people, taxis, traffic, police patrols... and CCTV shows that a LOT of people are walking around who would've seen or heard something in the direct vicinity yet never did. So IMO this practically rules out him walking away on foot or there being any kind of struggle in the horseshoe.

4. By terrible fate or co-incidence, a young girl aged 20 <modsnip> died just over a week later after Corrie's disappearance. I'm not saying it's connected, but that's not to say it's any less weird than Corrie. On 24th Sept a 23 yr old from Dumfermline "vanishes". On 5th Oct a 20 yr old from Dumfermline walks half a mile to a park on her own and keels over and dies (and is found at 7.30am). <modsnip> No publically disclosed info on her cause of death that I can find, it's not being treated as suspicious, but as I say, this girl obviously did not die on a night out with friends (ie hanging out in park late night) cos she was found at 7.30am by a dog walker, about 0.5 miles from home. But you have to wonder why she went walkabouts early in the morning or late at night, on her own, and then died in a park "unsuspiciously".

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/another-angel-sky-soon-tributes-8986660

<modsnip>

6. Corrie and his brother Darroch are clearly as thick as thieves (very close). I'm amazed Corrie would do ANYTHING and not let his brother know. <modsnip> I reckon Darroch is the one that's going to know best what Corrie is or was up to that night, his intentions, reasons for many of his actions that night, etc.

Some other notes. Press reported a lady reporting a speeding silver car on Corrie's night. This was never mentioned again, what I just said seems to be literally the only description, nothing more, nothing less. Speeding where, speeding when? etc. Google "corrie mckeague speeding silver car" for source.

The silver car seen in horseshoe street view appears to be there in both the TV report with the man looking round the horseshoe, also the video with the grandparents. So as it's been parking in the same place since Oct 2015 thru til today, it's probably an employee car but I'd say it's one to keep in mind as one of the potential 3 in the area on Corrie's night. That said I do not think it's related to the one parked up in CCTV1, which appears to have different rear lights (red brake lights). Someone may want to doublecheck that (and as I say it may only ever be there in the day as all these sources are daytime images, so could be an employee who isn't there at night).

Probably of no significance, but in the grandparents video we also see a "bin lorry", which appears to be a food waste recycling truck. It might be worth considering if the larger bin lorries actually use this area or if they have to send in these smaller ones.

And PS. I was asked about the 3.26am CCTV Adnams image but I do not personally think that is Corrie with someone following him, sorry. Just 2 guys. Nor do I see the "Corrie behind some railings" in the bicycle image. The mind seeing what it wants to see in both those instances, I reckon.

That said, what we do now know now from that image is that The Grapes (CCTV 1 camera) clearly rotates to at least one other direction (St Andrews St North). I would not be surprised if it also looks back up Risbygate, so again at least 3 angles and certain black spots. The two CCTV cameras (kebab and alley) may never be looking in each others directions very often at all... Another thing is why we're shown the pretty crappy Adnams CCTV images when there's the Starbucks CCTV camera very close by.
 
I think the pi is purely because they feel the police aren't following up leads such as the sugar beet sighting in as much detail as the family want. By all means I can understand the desperation of doing anything to find your son but I'm not sure a pi can do that. All they're really doing is picking up the slack with phone calls and the bum leads police aren't interested in.

I do wonder why they think they need a PI at all. They seem to spend a lot of time on social media and trying to keep the case in the public eye, but wouldn't it make more sense for the family to carry out these additional investigations themselves? We are talking about an experienced police officer and another family member with an investigative background after all. There's really nothing a PI, even an experienced and competent one, can really do that they cannot do themselves with their experience and backgrounds.
 
I do wonder why they think they need a PI at all. They seem to spend a lot of time on social media and trying to keep the case in the public eye, but wouldn't it make more sense for the family to carry out these additional investigations themselves? We are talking about an experienced police officer and another family member with an investigative background after all. There's really nothing a PI, even an experienced and competent one, can really do that they cannot do themselves with their experience and backgrounds.

I have always thought the same. As I said previously, the family have been down here full time and haven't managed to find any evidence, yet they are quick to criticise the Police publicly?
 
But the family have dismissed AWOL out of hand. I understand a family not wanting to believe it but would they go to (or be allowed by Police) all this trouble of getting a PI etc if they are in denial?

I understand the family would not want to think of Corrie being AWOL, but what do they realistically think has happened to him bearing in mind Nicola still seems to think he's alive and being held by someone?

The police seem to have ruled out a terrorist-related kidnapping. I suspect that if he had been taken by Islamic terrorists he would have been killed well before now even if the recording of the killing were to be held back before release. In the recordings released on YouTube, for example, it is known that the victims were killed several months before their deaths were shown.

In recent years we have seen a growing number of cases of individuals being held in captivity for months, even many years, but in every case I've heard about the victims are girls and young women. There has not, AFAIK, been a single case of a young man being held in this way.

Meanwhile, all the publicity created by the family has made it virtually impossible for Corrie, if he is AWOL, to come slinking back without looking a right berk.
 
What if there was an error with the loading weight given by the bin lorry and corry was actually inside one of those bins? Could it be as simple as that? I do hope not.
 
<modsnip>

IMO the guy viewed Corrie (as a regular at takeaway) in friendly terms, ie acquaintance (that he described as friend) then, 10 or so weeks further on after having been subject of much gossip and innuendo, his connection to Corrie was played down when asked the question for the doco.
If that was the case why agree to be in the documentary at all?
 
If that was the case why agree to be in the documentary at all?

It quite exciting for some people, to be in the middle of a media circus for a missing/possibly murdered/believed dead person.... maybe he got carried away at first, on the whole 'friendship' aspect. Maybe he was quizzed too much and now wants to be out of the media circus.

I know when I was doing bar work, there were specific people who were in at the same time, same night, week after week. If any of them had gone missing, I probably would have said that I knew them too if I saw a poster. However, past a certain brand of clothing they wore every Saturday night, or how they liked their drink mixed, I wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about them.

He was probably in the documentary because he was one of the first people in the media, giving what could then be seen as important information.
 
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