GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

Thank you Cottonweaver and Supernovae

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[cottonweaver]

This pair are awful.
From all the quotes/links so far, as above -

They seem to have jointly demonised their child - the list of problems supposedly displayed by Ellie and even a reference again that Ellie is faking not hearing Mum call her down for cake.

In the 2007 case ( conviction quashed on appeal) described in http://shakenbabyandsuddeninfantdeat...1_archive.html, he makes pointed references to the 999 call contents as if the audible distress will be evidence of his honesty. Now JGray does similar about the final tape "I almost lost my voice."

The paramedic says that BB applied aftershave for the ambulance ride! WTH. ( Is he just a narcissist or was he covering a smell? )

That poor child, as well as the younger daughter must have had a hell of a life with them. Also feel sorry for the grandparents who fostered Ellie the first time around. ( I'm wondering if it may even be them that alerted social services to pregnancy 2. )

Wonder why she said this to her work colleague: "Ms Bernstein said Gray had come into work and told her her partner was down in Cornwall, looking after his ill father, and that Ellie was being looked after by her godfather."

JG sounds like she has some kind of weird Stockholm Syndrome - she has put him above her own children - yet I can't fully believe that she has not herself abused her own child too. She is too willing to deflect the blame off him on to herself . Who caused the shoulder fractures - we won't find out.

I looked for the 2012 video of the This Morning broadcast but unfortunately couldn't find it. Yes Gigi, he comes across a total faker in the print interviews. Says he spent 8 years reading up on SBS and this ultimately led to his exhoneration even though SS still withheld their children's return after his release. ( Looks like he became a professional victim, spending his daytime researching that and then by 2012 he was on TV and across national newspapers, seeking attention & a strange status.)

Has social services evidence been put already or doesn't that happen? They obviously had many grounds for the previous "neglect" and i think this was when the couple were temporarily living apart. ( ?)

It's a shame that most UK posters won't even know there is a WS thread for this shocking case.

 

[Gigi-G]

I've just come across this in the Sutton Edition of The Guardian...

I wasn't aware he was representing himself at trial.
Anyone else?

That maybe why they are both sharing the dock then. Usually there are custody officers sat with them keeping the distance between them. And that's why the 'artist sketch' of them both in the dock and he has books/paperwork in front of him.

I'm also taking it that Jennie Gray is not remanded in custody whilst case is on going. Rather that she's on bail. Returning to court each day.

The prosecution. I'm sure set out their case in the first few days of the trial.
With use of all the items he tried to hide in the dumpsters locally.
I would really of loved to sit in on this case. I'm studying Criminology at the moment. I've not yet had or heard/seen a case that's been prepared for defense by the main guilty perpetrator. Fascinating....
Can't wait now for him to put his case forward then..

http://m.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/13219787.Murder_accused_Ben_Butler_represents_himself_in_court/

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[cottonweaver]

I'll read that - TX - representing himself - we know that stereotype, he must be full of himself, but appears he did a good job last time?

PS Gigi, he was a gamer - or at least he recounts the 2007 emergency as happening whilst he was playing a game.

EDIT _ I mis-read! He is repping himself this time! Oh my.
This will be a good example for your studies!

PS Instead of staging the press conference, looks like folk are moving on to staging the 999 call now

 

[cottonweaver]

DV evidence

Not long after Gray had joined the office she had turned up for work with a "Tom and Jerry"-style lump on her head, she said.

And on October 25, she had stayed at home to look after her child as she claimed her partner's father in Devon was very ill.

Now she had only been in that job for 2 weeks apparently, so he was flipping out violently as close to a fortnight before Ellie's death. Ellie dies on 28th.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...been_an_accident__father_s_murder_trial_told/

sutton guardian says he repped himself for June bail hearing- s'pose he'll continue for main trial.

 

[cottonweaver]

From March 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-kiss-girls-mother-dock-returns-gesture.html

Man accused of murdering his six-year-old daughter blows a kiss to the girl's mother from the dock...and she returns the gesture
Ben Butler, 34, was refused bail at a hearing at the Old Bailey, a day after he was charged with the murder of his daughter, Ellie.

butler interview after his successful appeal

In an exclusive interview with the Sutton Guardian Mr Butler told of his miscarriage of justice and his hell inside prison.
As Ben Butler was sentenced to 18 months for hurting his only daughter, the shock was so great even one of his barristers broke down in tears.

He warned: “If it can happen to me, it can happen anyone.

“It ruined me. I still haven’t got over it.

Mr Butler said: “Everyone I knew that was close to me couldn’t believe what was going on.

Mr Butler believes miscarriages of justice over shaken baby syndrome will continue to happen if there is not a change in the law.

He claims the police and the courts rely on the same sort of evidence, and while the prosecution are able to fund a large number of expert witnesses to support their claims, on legal aid he was only able to call three experts in support of him.

“I don’t know what to do now. I’ve been trying to keep myself busy, I’ve been doing lots of reading and researching shaken baby syndrome.

“In the past I worked in an office, I will have to get back into work.

“With everything that happened I probably lost a bit of me that will never come back.”

http://smithforensic.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/ben-butler-uk-shaken-baby-syndrome.html

 

[Gigi-G]

Yeah he's representing himself. I don't know if he is also representing Jennie too. I guess we'll find out over cross examination.
Then again if it allegedly took them 5 years until the children were returned to them. I'm guessing here out on a limb that Mr Ben Butler used his custodial sentence and the tax payers n hard workers of this country to pay/fund him to study upto an equivalent of a collegiate/University degree in LAW.
Whether he gained a pass in the subject is neither here or there. He had enough time 22 hours a day in his cell. To get his head stuck in many reference books to study similar cases. And getting Jennie Gray to gather/photocopy any evidence she gains from Child services.

Altho this time I really don't think it's gonna get him the same outcome.
Last time may of been an innocent set of circumstances.
Given he's as you've put 'a gamer' I have 2 boys. And a girl lol. All just out of their teens. But fiercely competitive when battling against each other online on their x boxes. I'm glad all but 1 work so it's not an every day/night scenario. 😂
I've book marked that Sutton Guardian page.. hopefully they will keep up with regular transcripts.
Right this tired old chick is off to sleep. Tc Cottonweaver. Ttfn

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[Gigi-G]

DV evidence



Now she had only been in that job for 2 weeks apparently, so he was flipping out violently as close to a fortnight before Ellie's death. Ellie dies on 28th.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...been_an_accident__father_s_murder_trial_told/

sutton guardian says he repped himself for June bail hearing- s'pose he'll continue for main trial.

I reckon that's where the broken shoulder blade came about then. And my eldest boy broke his shoulder socket.. not same I know I guess hers was the flat bone. Either way because of the way the body is and each part of that area being difficult to restrict movement. It is flipping painful. My boy was given. Cylindrical wedges of cotton wadding. That were doused in morphine. He'd have those inserted into his nostril. To help with the pain. As well as calpol. He was strapped with his arm to his chest hand up by his neck. For 5 days like that. Until they decided what they were gonna do... operate. So yeah. Poor poor sweet Ellie. What a sad life. N she was probably too scared to tell mommy it hurt for fear of getting another beating (maybe) I couldn't let anyone/thing (as in animal etc) be in pain... I just think but that must be why... he swore her to secrecy maybe... awh gosh. Doesn't bare thinking about... anyways bed for me.. be safe Cottonweaver!

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[Gigi-G]

I reckon that's where the broken shoulder blade came about then. And my eldest boy broke his shoulder socket.. not same I know I guess hers was the flat bone. Either way because of the way the body is and each part of that area being difficult to restrict movement. It is flipping painful. My boy was given. Cylindrical wedges of cotton wadding. That were doused in morphine. He'd have those inserted into his nostril. To help with the pain. As well as calpol. He was strapped with his arm to his chest hand up by his neck. For 5 days like that. Until they decided what they were gonna do... operate. So yeah. Poor poor sweet Ellie. What a sad life. N she was probably too scared to tell mommy it hurt for fear of getting another beating (maybe) I couldn't let anyone/thing (as in animal etc) be in pain... I just think but that must be why... he swore her to secrecy maybe... awh gosh. Doesn't bare thinking about... anyways bed for me.. be safe Cottonweaver!

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It's gonna get interesting I'm sure... nunight

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[flutterby]

Another horrible, weird case

Does anyone know which court at the Old Bailey the trail is being held in? I'm in London on Tuesday, with no plans, so might go to the Old Bailey

 

[Supernovae]

He may well have been representing himself at an earlier stage but there is mention of a barrister for him, and a senior one (Queen's Counsel):

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...er-accused-of-murdering-ellie-6-34650699.html

The Peppa Pig cartoon was playing on the television where Ellie was found in her pink pyjamas, according to another medic, Mark Westron.

Cross-examining, Butler's lawyer, Icah Peart QC, said: "I'm going to suggest Peppa Pig does a lot of jumping over muddy puddles." The witness agreed.

http://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/icah-peart-qc/

It's court 8, the listings they can be found here:

http://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Central-Criminal-Court.php

and here:

https://www.courtserve.net/courtlists/current/crown/indexv2crowndailies.php

 

[flutterby]

Thank you very much

 

[cottonweaver]

You're right Supernovae.

A QC Sherrington ( Emma ) represented him last time - it appears that he only rep'd himself for the bail hearing, after all. That presumably will be the barrister who he says "cried" in previous interview after one of his earlier legal battles.

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Emma-Sherrington/1734905807 ( specialist in child law) Form your link, it appears that she is not rep'ing him this time. (BTW last time he complained that because he was on legal aid he was only allowed three medical experts to testify on SBS and that the previous case had cost the taxpayer £1million )

more on the previous case against him - about his access battles to get the children back afterwards
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tion-was-quashed-faces-new-access-battle.html

and this one notes that Ellie's previous fosters ( g'parents) had to agree to finally let her return - as I said, feel terrible for them, stuck in the middle trying to do their best for all.

London Borough of Sutton v Gray & Ors [2012] EWHC 2604 (Fam) (12 October 2012)
Care proceedings in respect of two sisters, one living with grandparents under a Special Guardianship Order, the other with foster parents. The father was exonerated from injuring one child, and issue of the threshold in respect of the other child adjourned. Full report: Bailii. Discussed by suesspiciousminds - see below.

London Borough of Sutton v Gray & Ors [2012] EWHC 2763 (Fam) (12 October 2012)
Further hearing in the above case. The grandparents agreed to that child returning to the mother, and the local authority withdrew their allegations in respect of the other child. Full report: Bailii.

http://www.familylore.co.uk/2012/10/news-update-16th-october-2012.html

 

[cottonweaver]

He may well have been representing himself at an earlier stage but there is mention of a barrister for him, and a senior one (Queen's Counsel):

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...er-accused-of-murdering-ellie-6-34650699.html

The Peppa Pig cartoon was playing on the television where Ellie was found in her pink pyjamas, according to another medic, Mark Westron.

Cross-examining, Butler's lawyer, Icah Peart QC, said: "I'm going to suggest Peppa Pig does a lot of jumping over muddy puddles." The witness agreed.

http://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/icah-peart-qc/

That's an interesting link in so far as it seems to have more details on the cross-x.
So his barrister is inferring to the paramedic that Ellie was influenced to jump off the nearby chair because PPig jumps over puddles?! What defence lawyers have to do, hey?

Also in your link I note the implications of sending the other child up to find the body of her own sister Ellie. ( The event happened two hours prior but the youngest is sent up to discover the body, then next mum rushes up, Dad isn't meant to be aware of the crisis at this point as he just thought she "was sleeping". ( What an awful memory for the youngest - basically being used for the staging. )

And of course earlier that day he is conveniently getting on record a text about "chilli tonight" .A voice call only to Gray about the initial crisis, so no record of what he said at that point except what can be inferred from taxi driver's testimony. Chilli? More like, chillingly manipulative.

Naturally I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions if it weren't for her head injuries being like those inflicted from "car-crash" or "drop from a one story building." Will be interesting to see how he tries to get around the medical evidence this time . ( Ventouse suction birth and cyst on the throat will have zero bearing on these skull fractures and catastrophic brain bleeds. Justice Moses quashed his conviction last time based on Judge Timothy Shaw's mis-direction to the jury on medical evidence and scientific opinion etc. )

Hope flutterby gets to see some of the trial and shares her impression.

 

[Supernovae]

"
Also in your link I note the implications of sending the other child up to find the body of her own sister Ellie. ( The event happened two hours prior but the youngest is sent up to discover the body, then next mum rushes up, Dad isn't meant to be aware of the crisis at this point as he just thought she "was sleeping". ( What an awful memory for the youngest - basically being used for the staging. ) "

You have to hope this was just another lie.

 

[Gigi-G]

Thank you Supernovae for the info regarding Mr Butler and his QC.
I wonder how far he directed his QC for the Q&A.. lol. I can see him being very manipulative. Especially if QC is Female. Smdh .

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[Gigi-G]

Meanwhile. Pulled this off of the DM site just a few mins ago.

Video shows murder accused father in fit of rage in front of girl http://dailym.ai/21f4wsF via http://dailym.ai/android

Unfortunately DM didn't include the video in its post. So I'm guessing that either it was just shown to jury members. Or gonna have to troll the www

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[cottonweaver]

Meanwhile. Pulled this off of the DM site just a few mins ago.

Video shows murder accused father in fit of rage in front of girl http://dailym.ai/21f4wsF via http://dailym.ai/android

Unfortunately DM didn't include the video in its post. So I'm guessing that either it was just shown to jury members. Or gonna have to troll the www

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Heart- breaking Gigi.

Bandage on her right shin there too & dark mark on her eye. Imagine the suffering - spends almost 5 (?) years fostered grandparents and then has to live with this abusive pair for almost a year.

Is there a live feed newspaper for today? Was expecting to find one in the Mirror but can't find it.

 

[Gigi-G]

Daily Mail round up.

Court shown dad ranting "*advertiser censored** off" in front of daughter he's accused of killing

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ellie-7846333#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

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[Gigi-G]

Daily Mail round up.

Court shown dad ranting "*advertiser censored** off" in front of daughter he's accused of killing

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ellie-7846333#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

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****Mirror sorry not DM

Heart- breaking Gigi.

Bandage on her right shin there too & dark mark on her eye. Imagine the suffering - spends almost 5 (?) years fostered grandparents and then has to live with this abusive pair for almost a year.

Is there a live feed newspaper for today? Was expecting to find one in the Mirror but can't find it.

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