UK - James Bulger, 2, abducted & murdered, Merseyside, 12 Feb 1993

[Brefie]

I don't think these men are the same people / boys they were. That's not to say they should be given a free pass, but I don't quite know what it means....

My nephew made a good point at the time they were about to be released - he said that they were probably released months earlier, b/c everyone in the country would have been on the look-out for a young man moving in next door. I thought it was a great point.

I think they should be given a chance. I don't know how any system would continue to rehabilitate a man of 24 who committed a heinous crime at the age of 10, and who was from that point on, essentially raised by a 'department'. Now, that's me commenting from the 'outside'. Had it been my nephew they murdered, I would surely feel differently, but there is a reason justice systems call for un-biased jurors.

 

[Lisahas2cats]

I know that people can do heinous things as children, and grow up with deep regret and disgust for their former actions. I want to believe that is the case with these two.

 

[sherri79]

I am not defending criminals, BUT

This "child`s" crime was terrible, just terrible. But he served his time, I am sure he had mental health counselling and is free to live his life and marry whomever he wants. He has a new life, new name, new town.

Unless there is compelling evidence that he would harm his wife(domestic assault) or harm another child or has harmed another child since his release, it is his choice to disclose his past or not.

There has been great pains taken to ensure his safety and privacy. What if the future wife goes to the press for real or imagined revenge.

There are some men who have extensive current and criminal pasts, and they marry a women with kids. One day suddenly she `disappears`and upon further disclosure his previous wife disappear just a few years earlier.

Or a women marries a man and knows about his past for violence against women and chooses to marry him anyway.

Or a rich husband, a great marriage, oh but when the time for Divorce comes he hires hit men to kill her to save money.

Or a seemingly mild manner fertilizer salesman who decides he wants the single life and kills his wife and unborn child.

The murder of Jamie was in 1993 and now it is 14 years later. Both the boys went from being 10 to being 24 and were released and there was no concern for public safety.

How would a person feel if they committed a `horrible`crime when they were mere children of 10, served their sentence, attempt to integrate into society, and then they have all of those efforts derailed by the disclosure of their past.

This women loves his man, I very much doubt that any disclosure will change that, he did not harm his own children, nor was he deemed to be a future risk to children. So I really do not feel it is in the interests of society nor the wife to know of a terrible crime when this now grown man was a child of 10.

instead of standing in the shoes of this killer lets step into the shoes of his future wife. you meet a young man when you are about 22. he tells you his life story and his family backs up the story. you share your life story with him. you fall in love and after 2 years decide to marry. a few years later you have a child. 1 day a reporter shows up on your door step. he points at your toddler and ask does he know what his father did? what are you talking about you ask. the reporter explains that when your husband was a child he committed 1 of the worse crimes any "human" can. you find out the government gave your husband a new name and actually actively worked to keep you from finding out what he had done. the choice of marry a child killer or not was taken from you. now you have this beautiful baby. if you stay with this man can you ever trust him with your child? if you divorce him a judge would give him visitation without you there to protect the child. if you tell the judge who he really is your baby will forever be known as the child of a murder. how will you explain to this child what his father did? how do you put any trust in the government when you know they felt his right to privacy was more important than your right to know who you are spending the rest of your life with. who do you go to for justice if the government was wrong and he kills your child?

 

[Dena]

Can someone post the pic or link to the age progression photo? I am having trouble finding one.

 

[Brefie]

instead of standing in the shoes of this killer lets step into the shoes of his future wife. you meet a young man when you are about 22. he tells you his life story and his family backs up the story. you share your life story with him. you fall in love and after 2 years decide to marry. a few years later you have a child. 1 day a reporter shows up on your door step. he points at your toddler and ask does he know what his father did? what are you talking about you ask. the reporter explains that when your husband was a child he committed 1 of the worse crimes any "human" can. you find out the government gave your husband a new name and actually actively worked to keep you from finding out what he had done. the choice of marry a child killer or not was taken from you. now you have this beautiful baby. if you stay with this man can you ever trust him with your child? if you divorce him a judge would give him visitation without you there to protect the child. if you tell the judge who he really is your baby will forever be known as the child of a murder. how will you explain to this child what his father did? how do you put any trust in the government when you know they felt his right to privacy was more important than your right to know who you are spending the rest of your life with. who do you go to for justice if the government was wrong and he kills your child?

EXCELLENT POST! Great points!:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[MagicRose99]

Can someone post the pic or link to the age progression photo? I am having trouble finding one.

If you go to youtube.com and search for "James Bulger" you'll find some video rememberances of James and most have the age progressions of both of the monsters...

 

[Nocgirl]

I always google people and look them up on my states court website although people with common names are very hard to find any info on. I wonder if this ploy was used in renaming the boys. They might have last names of Smith, or Johnson.

 

[Dena]

If you go to youtube.com and search for "James Bulger" you'll find some video rememberances of James and most have the age progressions of both of the monsters...

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to do that when I get home tonight, youtube is blocked at work.

 

[wildTrose]

I think my major concern is if they fo have children, if they have a son...is it going to bring up those memories? will they snap and do the same to their own child because their son looks similar to the one they killed? I think their is a huge possiblility of a repeat offence if they have a son.

 

[dingo]

Another point is if that they do have children will this child have similar traits to his father.....there are so many things that could go wrong in this situation.

 

[PSUfan]

I never read a book about them but I did read the article at the Crime Library website. Unbelievable what they did to poor James. They are paying for it though, for the rest of their lives - according to the articles I've read today, they're always looking over their shoulders, and Venables did seem to be very remorseful. I still think his fiancee deserves to know the truth.

I wonder if he was remorseful for what he did, or the fact that he got caught. I remember this story well. Nothing but pure evil at work. IMO, Sometimes people are bad seeds, and nothing society can do will change it. These torturing killers had to be bad seeds.

I feel sorry for his fiance. A normal person would not be able to live with this weight on his shoulders, but this man is obviously not normal, so maybe he will get away with keeping it from her. As long as the evil does not surface again.

 

[CyberLaw]

But I feel you fail to grasp the point of my post.

Why disclose a 14 year old crime, why risk the life you have now, the friends you have now, the women who loves you.

The point is that convicts try to attempt to integrate into a `"normal life" because that benefits them to be a normal person.

There are many, many women who marry men who have UNDISCLOSED criminal records and they do that because they know that the women will have nothing to do with them or anyone else.

These men are the child abusers, the wife beaters, the druggie, the man who killed another man with his buddy on a night out, drunk driving.

These people have been released from prison and go out and meet a women with a child specifically to abuse that child and or mother.

Or what about the rapist, or the guy charged with manslaughter.

These people with intent do this to deceive others to victimize others. They have been in and out of prison all their life.

BUT, again these men did not commit these crimes as 10 year old children, they committed them as adults.

I do not see anything benefit to anyone to disclose the past of the killers.

Again a person grows, changes and knows what they did was wrong from a child of 10 to 14. This man has a caseworker, you can bet your bottom dollar that the caseworker will keep tabs if a child is involved.

But again, he did not harm his own child, as he was merely a child himself, albeit a disturbed child.

So please, speculation aside. I do not see the evidence to compel disclosure.

 

[southcitymom]

But I feel you fail to grasp the point of my post.

Why disclose a 14 year old crime, why risk the life you have now, the friends you have now, the women who loves you.

The point is that convicts try to attempt to integrate into a `"normal life" because that benefits them to be a normal person.

There are many, many women who marry men who have UNDISCLOSED criminal records and they do that because they know that the women will have nothing to do with them or anyone else.

These men are the child abusers, the wife beaters, the druggie, the man who killed another man with his buddy on a night out, drunk driving.

These people have been released from prison and go out and meet a women with a child specifically to abuse that child and or mother.

Or what about the rapist, or the guy charged with manslaughter.

These people with intent do this to deceive others to victimize others. They have been in and out of prison all their life.

BUT, again these men did not commit these crimes as 10 year old children, they committed them as adults.

I do not see anything benefit to anyone to disclose the past of the killers.

Again a person grows, changes and knows what they did was wrong from a child of 10 to 14. This man has a caseworker, you can bet your bottom dollar that the caseworker will keep tabs if a child is involved.

But again, he did not harm his own child, as he was merely a child himself, albeit a disturbed child.

So please, speculation aside. I do not see the evidence to compel disclosure.

I agree that age is the distinguishing factor in this case. Had the crime happened just a month or two earlier, these boys could not even have been tried.

 

[Nocgirl]

Despite the fact they were kids when they committed this murder, this murder will go down as one of the most cruel, infamous murders of all time. I still would not like to be them, or one of their partners. They still disgust me and nobody but their parents would miss them if they died.

 

[dingo]

Thats how I feel too Nocgirl

 

[T-Rex]

Wow, I just think you have to own what you've done. I'm surprised a government would help someone do any different.

 

[CyberLaw]

He did own what he has done, he was in Prison for many years.

So he was tried, convicted, and served his sentence.

He paid his dues for his crime, and I agree when I learned about James, many years ago, his murder, I was disgusted.

I would say that if anyone knew his true "new" identity then he would be killed, hunted, harassed, not be able to get a job, friends, become a homeless person and have no semblance of a normal "adult" life, because he committed a crime, a murder 14 years ago, as time passes, 24 years ago, as time goes by 34 years as time goes by 45 and for the rest of his life, even though he did his "prison" time, he will have a life sentence, and he would never have a normal life and integrate into society, which is the goal of releasing prisoners into society.

So again, the speculative pros, vs the known or ought to be known cons.

 

[sherri79]

so who would let him babysit their child? how do you know he is not a teacher at a preschool today? when you meet a man you can do a background check on him if you want to be safe. the government is helping him hide from that right now. his caseworker can do nothing to stop him from being with kids because he "payed his debt".

 

[Gina_M]

Can someone post the pic or link to the age progression photo? I am having trouble finding one.

Here's the one I found:

http://esnips.com/web/whitewolffsBusinessFiles/

There is also this page:
http://esnips.com/web/whitewolffsPhotos/

which has a photo with the caption "This could be an actual and recent picture of Robert Thompson". The person in the photo is Sean Walsh, who was rumored to be Robert Thompson in his new identity. There have been a few people rumored to be either Venables or Thompson but authorities have denied that they were true. More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bulger_murder_case

 

[pedinurse]

even if he was a truly changed person - if I was his bride - I would want to know. she deserves it.