Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

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Vermont24 said:
I'm having a really hard time imagining someone accidentally running into the river, but I do agree that things may not have gone entirely to plan. Realistically, how many ways are there to effectively subdue someone in the kind of scenario we are talking about? Now, how many of those methods could potentially result in death, or at least unconsciousness (the two perhaps not being immediately distinguishable in the heat of the moment), if applied for too long?
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This sounds awful but that’s the way I’m leaning. What puzzles me (if) the car scenario is how it seems, is where could a body be placed without leaving evidence in a car, a house or a local area? My first thought is water purely because of the sad stories from around our area about people falling in to the river/drains and not being found for weeks or if at all.
Is that why police were searching the bracken, for something discarded? Have they been told there was a fight/argument and something on her person was thrown (I think from them strimming bracken they were looking for an item).

How did the conversation strike up between two random people that again, if car scenario is Libby, she got into a car (I don’t believe it was a smoke/joint etc). Just how does that kind of chat spring up?

Was anyone in her house when she tried to get in, did she argue with someone and that’s why she was upset?

So many questions :confused:
 
Joelle88 said:
I’m having second thoughts about him being capable of murder.
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It's hard to think of anyone being capable of murder. It's very difficult to envisage any other scenarios where she would still be missing tho.

There was a much earlier post from a relative of a retired police officer that said the nature of the river hull would mean a body wouldn't get far.

So if she'd fallen in running from a flasher / rapist that had brought her to the park I can't help thinking she'd have been found by now.

If he'd accidently killed her to silence her surely he'd have panicked?Panicked people make mistakes. They haven't thought things though. I think she'd have been found in that scenario.

I'm really, really unsettled by the Oak Road CCTV footage released by the police showing 4 potential witnesses. Given how little they've given away it must be important. It's dropped off the radar a bit cos you can't really see anything. With no context it's meaningless. Up to a few days ago they still hadn't come forward. It's recorded two and a half hours after Libby was last seen.

I tend to the deliberate hiding of a body. I can't help feeling that would require some element of having at least thought about it. But thats just my personal opinion in the absence of actual facts and info. I feel under any other scenario she'd have been found.
 
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Catsarse said:
This sounds awful but that’s the way I’m leaning. What puzzles me (if) the car scenario is how it seems, is where could a body be placed without leaving evidence in a car, a house or a local area? My first thought is water purely because of the sad stories from here about people falling in to the river/drains and not being found for weeks or if at all.
Is that why police were searching the bracken, for something discarded? Have they been told there was a fight/argument and something on her person was thrown (I think from them strimming bracken they were looking for an item).

How did the conversation strike up between two random people that again, if car scenario is Libby, she got into a car (I don’t believe it was a smoke/joint etc). Just how does that kind of chat spring up?

Was anyone in her house when she tried to get in, did she argue with someone and that’s why she was upset?

So many questions :confused:
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It's ripe for speculation, but I'm just trying to see it in practical terms.

If it went down like I'm suggesting it did, manhandling a body from the park to the car would takes real effort (I'm not certain on the park's gates situation outside of normal hours, though my partner did a weeklong morning bootcamp there for a few years ago and they had to climb to get access). Spending any time with that body, including trying to transport it, represents a huge risk, so you'd be looking for the most expedient and comprehensive means of disposal (that's burial out). Ergo, river.
 
Newthoughts said:
It's hard to think of anyone being capable of murder. It's very difficult to envisage any other scenarios where she would still be missing tho.

There was a much earlier post from a relative of a retired police officer that said the nature of the river hull would mean a body wouldn't get far.

So if she'd fallen in running from a flasher / rapist that had brought her to the park I can't help thinking she'd have been found by now.

If he'd accidently killed her to silence her surely he'd have panicked?Panicked people make mistakes. They haven't thought things though. I think she'd have been found in that scenario.

I'm really, really unsettled by the Oak Road CCTV footage released by the police showing 4 potential witnesses. Given how little they've given away it must be important. It's dropped off the radar a bit cos you can't really see anything. With no context it's meaningless. Up to a few days ago they still hadn't come forward. It's recorded two and a half hours after Libby was last seen.

I tend to the deliberate hiding of a body. I can't help feeling that would require some element of having at least thought about it. But thats just my personal opinion in the absence of actual facts and info. I feel under any other scenario she'd have been found.
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Do you feel the 4 are integral to or just witnesses to anything that may have happened?
 
Vermont24 said:
It's ripe for speculation, but I'm just trying to see it in practical terms.

If it went down like I'm suggesting it did, manhandling a body from the park to the car would takes real effort (I'm not certain on the park's gates situation outside of normal hours, though my partner did a weeklong morning bootcamp there for a few years ago and they had to climb to get access). Spending any time with that body, including trying to transport it, represents a huge risk, so you'd be looking for the most expedient and comprehensive means of disposal (that's burial out). Ergo, river.
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Assuming he acts alone after seeing arandom opportunity. Acts quickly and on impulse.

There is still the issue of the Oak Road footage. The police have played their cards really close to their chests yet thought that important enough to release into the public domain. It's two and a half hours after Libby is last seen. How does that fit in to the various impulse gone wrong scenarios?

Some of his burglaries could suggest an element of premeditation. Knowing young females live in a house for starters.
 
Vermont24 said:
It's ripe for speculation, but I'm just trying to see it in practical terms.

If it went down like I'm suggesting it did, manhandling a body from the park to the car would takes real effort (I'm not certain on the park's gates situation outside of normal hours, though my partner did a weeklong morning bootcamp there for a few years ago and they had to climb to get access). Spending any time with that body, including trying to transport it, represents a huge risk, so you'd be looking for the most expedient and comprehensive means of disposal (that's burial out). Ergo, river.
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I agree on water, if it panned out that way. Pure panic, hide a body then back home acting as normal as poss?

Then my brain goes into, did he have things from work that would make cleaning evidence easier? Are the police interested in the oak rd cctv people because they suspect something happened in the park but just can’t prove it?

Just so many ifs, buts and maybes to this case. So sad for Libby and her family, must be horrendous not knowing.

Good to be able to post on here with like minded people, and stops me somewhat googling weird stuff. Hope my phone history is never looked through.
 
motherofdaughters said:
Do you feel the 4 are integral to or just witnesses to anything that may have happened?
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I really can't figure that but the police clearly wanted it in the public domain for some reason even tho, without context, it shows nothing.

In the worse case scenario one or more are integral and there is premeditation and accomplices but that's too horrible to contemplate. Very few human beings could do that.

Best case they witness something. Possibly PR returning to deliberately hide the body. Or the police are clutching at straws.
 
Catsarse said:
How did the conversation strike up between two random people that again, if car scenario is Libby, she got into a car (I don’t believe it was a smoke/joint etc). Just how does that kind of chat spring up?
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Maybe she told him she was locked out and he offered to help her get in. If his rap sheet is anything to go by he'd be capable of breaking in (though I'm sure he'd use the term locksmith rather than burglar!)
 
I still think she went into water somewhere...accidentally or otherwise ..either possible..
I feel if he did manage to get her back into his car then the police would know where he took her
 
"If " the screams and running man are relevant it fits more with her accidentally going into water and him legging it ...maybe he left then went back ...or stayed in his car in the area for a long time before being seen leaving on CCTV on the main road...hence why they wanted the 4 people to come forward from a while later
 
Newthoughts said:
It's hard to think of anyone being capable of murder. It's very difficult to envisage any other scenarios where she would still be missing tho.

There was a much earlier post from a relative of a retired police officer that said the nature of the river hull would mean a body wouldn't get far.

So if she'd fallen in running from a flasher / rapist that had brought her to the park I can't help thinking she'd have been found by now.

If he'd accidently killed her to silence her surely he'd have panicked?Panicked people make mistakes. They haven't thought things though. I think she'd have been found in that scenario.

I'm really, really unsettled by the Oak Road CCTV footage released by the police showing 4 potential witnesses. Given how little they've given away it must be important. It's dropped off the radar a bit cos you can't really see anything. With no context it's meaningless. Up to a few days ago they still hadn't come forward. It's recorded two and a half hours after Libby was last seen.

I tend to the deliberate hiding of a body. I can't help feeling that would require some element of having at least thought about it. But thats just my personal opinion in the absence of actual facts and info. I feel under any other scenario she'd have been found.
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I’m having second thoughts again. I’ve just been viewing spidercam again. I’m still completely convinced 100% that the cctv person is Pawel putting Libby into the car, and by looking at the persons body language and shifty behaviour, I don’t think it was to be a Good Samaritan. I’m just unsure of if it was intentional murder. It’s just all very confusing.
 
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Vermont24 said:
It's ripe for speculation, but I'm just trying to see it in practical terms.

If it went down like I'm suggesting it did, manhandling a body from the park to the car would takes real effort (I'm not certain on the park's gates situation outside of normal hours, though my partner did a weeklong morning bootcamp there for a few years ago and they had to climb to get access). Spending any time with that body, including trying to transport it, represents a huge risk, so you'd be looking for the most expedient and comprehensive means of disposal (that's burial out). Ergo, river.
Click to expand...
Newthoughts said:
It's hard to think of anyone being capable of murder. It's very difficult to envisage any other scenarios where she would still be missing tho.

There was a much earlier post from a relative of a retired police officer that said the nature of the river hull would mean a body wouldn't get far.

So if she'd fallen in running from a flasher / rapist that had brought her to the park I can't help thinking she'd have been found by now.

If he'd accidently killed her to silence her surely he'd have panicked?Panicked people make mistakes. They haven't thought things though. I think she'd have been found in that scenario.

I'm really, really unsettled by the Oak Road CCTV footage released by the police showing 4 potential witnesses. Given how little they've given away it must be important. It's dropped off the radar a bit cos you can't really see anything. With no context it's meaningless. Up to a few days ago they still hadn't come forward. It's recorded two and a half hours after Libby was last seen.

I tend to the deliberate hiding of a body. I can't help feeling that would require some element of having at least thought about it. But thats just my personal opinion in the absence of actual facts and info. I feel under any other scenario she'd have been found.
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I expect we've all watched the HS cctv, aware of timings stated and seen/told the length of time this male was present, the same male we likely believe was driving a car that Libby got in. Personally, I feel there was time to "show" himself at the bench and there was time for thought. You could possibly say he was worried, but, didn't dare approach her initially incase he would be incriminated, it's possible. It's possible he just wished to know where she lived, so he could stand in the vicinity holding his penis in his right hand. However, in my opinion if you feel his intentions were to do more than "show" himself, how could he do this and be sure that it, whatever it was, remained a secret. That is relying upon a vulnerable young lady, presumably as a stranger, to either consent or not. Either way, is a risk to a married man with, it will seem, incriminating things to keep well hidden. Would a flash or a fumble be worth that risk, or was there more thought involved?
 
Joelle88 said:
I’m having second thoughts again. I’ve just been viewing spidercam again. I’m still completely convinced 100% that the cctv person is Pawel putting Libby into the car, and by looking at the persons body language and shifty behaviour, I don’t think it was to be a Good Samaritan. It’s just all very confusing.
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I agree .. the question is the level of "not being a good samaritan"
 
CoverMeCagney said:
Maybe she told him she was locked out and he offered to help her get in. If his rap sheet is anything to go by he'd be capable of breaking in (though I'm sure he'd use the term locksmith rather than burglar!)
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If he'd helped her break in to her own house using his 'locksmith' skills, given he knew the house was empty, and given a neighbour heard a scream, a gate banging and male mutterings, is it possible he forced himself inside her house? I do hope the police have had a good look inside her own house.
 
The story he allegedly told "LS made a pass at him" could have been a cover for her reporting him for exposing himself in the car. Meaning he didn't know what happened next if she fled the car? Meaning he thought she would come forwarf to tell what he had done so he had a cover story of her lunging at him at the ready? This all could be a horrible coincidence of flasher/burglar/voyeur coming into contact with and then part of a missing person/abduction case?
 
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