Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Is it the norm for every case? For Milly Dowler there wasn't a known cause of death.

    Depends what they want to charge him with and how complicated the back story to that would be.

    Could homicide be falling into a river? I'd say that was suspicious in that he could argue against it. Unlikely tho that would be. I think it's homicide because she couldn't get herself into the river because she was already dead. How she was killed might be more difficult to ascertain.
     
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  2. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Falling into a river could come under homicide if he put her in a dangerous position that lead to it ..especially if his intentions were commiting a crime eg exposing himself, attempted rape etc
    Also if it was his fault and he left her

    I'm not saying this is what happened only that its possible based on what we know as yet

    It's unusual for the police to use a wide ranging term as homicide ...understanding why is the puzzle for me

    It also seems this week the police gave an update to press that it's still a "homicide" investigation.. so after a month of finding her it's still not been declared a murder investigation
     
  3. Vail

    Vail Justice for Kara & Jessica

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    In UK law, Homicide encompasses both Murder and Manslaughter. Since they don't know yet how she was killed (we presume), homicide is a term that covers all the bases. Murder is simply the most serious form of homicide, needing the element of malice to distinguish it from manslaughter (unintentional or accidental.)

    Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service
     
  4. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Yes it's a big umbrella
     
  5. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    Re yesterday’s “update”, I contacted the HDM journalist who wrote the article. He confirmed it was a police reply to HDM asking for an update rather than it being initiated by police.
     
  6. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Can they tell juries about prior convictions? That is always an iffy area in the U.S...sometimes yes, other times no.

    As far as determining cause and manner of death...for example if she drowned, could be difficult to prove murder vs. accident, imo. No word on cause yet, correct?
     
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  7. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    When I did jury service they did announce the defendant’s previous convictions before we were sent to deliberate our verdict.
     
  8. Plod

    Plod Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it’s a case that they are letting the trial for the other offences go ahead and then if he’s sent to prison, they have further time,

    I’m not convinced that previous convictions are told to the jury until verdict is given - I recall a long time ago the jury let some rapist off, only to find he had previous for similar offences.

    In terms of bad character - an application has to be made to court by prosecution if they want to rely on it. However if the defence sought to say our client’s a good guy, or attack the prosecution witnesses’ character or even the victims, I think the prosecution has the right to raise the bad character of the Defendant. That’s my rusty knowledge of the law.

    I’m terms of how she died, although in the past they revealed how previous murdered people had died, I think they are being very cautious not to here. I think this is to do with the influence of social media and media (and sites like this!!) I can’t remember any UK case before where Sm and MSM were so involved - maybe I’m wrong?? The police obviously are playing it very close to prevent any accusation of prejudiced trial and him getting off on a technicality. Maybe that’s why also they are letting the other trial take place first, so he doesn’t try to say unfair trial then.
     
  9. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting, Oulton. Were the previous convictions for the same crime that the defendant was on trial for? or similar? I'm interested to know what the previous convictions had in common with the case being heard in court.
     
  10. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    They were the same crimes for previous domestic violence, breaking into women’s houses and beating them senseless.
     
  11. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    Years ago, 22 years to be precise, I was a witness and they announced the defendant’s previous convictions after the verdict. It is done differently now.
     
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  12. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    If they have the luxury of time to investigate why not use it. Once he's charged dates get set and they are looking at deadlines

    Normally I'd guess charges have to be brought asap to get dangerous individuals of the street. He's already of the street.
     
  13. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    Totally agree. I also wonder if there is a lot of new evidence coming in regarding previous charges or possible connecting crimes, more than we are aware of at the moment. Just my opinion. They might be building some kindof narrative which would take a lot of processing, he may have previous dealings with the police for all we know.
     
  14. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    Will the defence team pull in psychiatry report for diminished responsibility for current charges if he continues to plead not guilty and if the cps have strong evidence against him?
     
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  15. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    The police have to consider Public Perception and the family ...charges should not be delayed where possible..they either have enough to charge and be comfortable for a conviction or they dont ..as soon as the former they should charge ..they still usually have many months to gather extra

    All the time they delay they lose public confidence as people are aware there could still be a killer out there

    Plus it prolongs agony for the family

    Yes the family will want a good conviction so will understand the police need to be ready

    But in the long run they either have enough to charge or they dont

    For me either they do not currently have enough evidence around what happened or its logistical around other offences ..but I feel more likely the former
     
  16. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine the family's agony being anything other than prolonged no matter what happens. I can't see how anything would alleviate that. Their child has been killed and if the thought of that and of her final hours upsets us so much I cannot even begin to imagine the nightmare they must be going through. Next year when she'd have graduated, when they see her friends start careers, get married have children etc. Every birthday, Christmas, mother's day, father's day. All stolen cos some evil little @@@@ couldn't control his dick

    I think, - but hopefully I'll never know - if it were my child getting the strongest case and longest sentence would be my priority. I think I'd want to know that every possible aspect of the perpetrator's life had been investigated if it might help. And everyone that might have been involved has been caught and charged.

    I hope it's the latter of your 2 possibilities (I guess you do to). Maybe they have enough to charge with manslaughter but are sure it was murder and are looking for more to prove that? Maybe PR has a more complicated but relevant back story that needs investigating? Perhaps he didn't work alone and there are others to catch? Or maybe they just want his current trial out of the way.

    They haven't gone public with requests for help beyond the Croda CCTV 4. Stuff about other offences does seem to have disappeared from SM. That makes me think they are looking at lots of aspects of this case.
     
  17. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    Nice.
     
  18. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Is her body still being held? I know they can do this indefintely but seems like they could do what is necessary, retain samples, get a second non-police autopsy and release the body to her family ASAP. Not sure how much more can be learned once those things are done. Jmo
     
  19. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    And if you think about it, new charges were put forward after the initial charges, pretty sure there was a gap in between the two. IMO LE might have an awful lot of info to process linking to the recent charges. He’s clearly a prolific offender in the flashing of his meat and two veg. What happens if he gets charged with more offences of the same ilk not connected to Libby?
     
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  20. Oulton

    Oulton Active Member

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    I really think LE would have announced if he was no longer under investigation linked to Libby by now. That would be in the public’s interest if they think it’s a homocide case and the person responsible is still at large and to clear PR’s name in relation to that investigation. Especially as there seems to another guy abducting and raping women in London!
     

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