UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

[jamjim]

11:53
Those who are innocent lie 'due to a childish fear they will not be believed', defence says
Mr Saxby is now talking about Mr Thornton, who says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car.

He said: “When he is convinced he saw the man from 24 cleaning his car, Pawel Relowicz’s car, we know was around the corner - we know that from the CCTV.

“That is an example of a theory that he killed Libby Squire and is supported by a set of theories that Sam Alford saw him getting into his car, and that he asphyxiated Libby - even though it couldn’t be proved how she was killed.

“The theory that Mr Thornton saw him cleaning his car can not stand up because his car was not there.

“What this case revolves around is not his bad character or the lies he has told about his past convictions, his problem.

“No doubt those who are guilty lie, but so do those who are innocent due to a childish fear that they will not be believed.”

Libby Squire trial live: Relowicz defence to start

 

[PitchforkRed]

Except his timings don't match the case outlined either, if he is precise the screaming went on after 12:19. For what it's worth I think he has massively over-estimated how long the screams went on for and how long he was watching out of the window before he saw the man walking out of the park. Unless he missed PR leaving the park while he was in the loo and saw another man leaving.

Plus he got the moon thing wrong (allegedly!). I don't think we can trust any ear witness 100%, you could pick faults with any of their testimonies. Is this the two students who had their windows open? I know that was mentioned before as I remember thinking 'who are these people with their windows open in the middle of a snowy January night?' Maybe that made the screams clearer to them. The students are also more likely to have been awake at the times of the screams, and not recently roused from sleep like Mr Alford.

Also cannot really discount the accounts of two people because they are students, when it was two students who were astute enough to notice the used condom.

 

[jamjim]

11:56
Relowicz due to take the stand
There is now a short break before Relowicz is due to take the stand.

Libby Squire trial live: Relowicz defence to start

 

[mrazda71]

Oh PLEASE ... childish fear!

If you have nothing to hide, you don't lie - innocent, childish or any other.

Only those with something to hide lie.

 

[Tortoise]

His car was on CCTV returning home wasnt it?

copied over from thread 18, post #206

Relowicz was later picked up on CCTV heading onto Beverley Road at around 12.20am.

The court has heard he then parked in Raglan Street at around 12.23am and a figure could be then be seen on CCTV walking in the direction of Relowicz’s home.

Pawel Relowicz court updates as butcher stands trial for Libby murder

 

[Skigh]

11:56
Relowicz due to take the stand
There is now a short break before Relowicz is due to take the stand.

Libby Squire trial live: Relowicz defence to start

Gives me time to make a strong coffee.

 

[stephaniejanes]

Oh PLEASE ... childish fear!

If you have nothing to hide, you don't lie - innocent, childish or any other.

Only those with something to hide lie.

This is the time in the trial where we need to take deep breaths to stay calm. I know I'm already in a rage from a few of the statements and it's not even really started yet!

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Gives me time to make a strong coffee.

I think something stronger than coffee might be required for this one. I think we're in for a long hard day with PR on the stand. JMO

 

[Winterbells]

Plus he got the moon thing wrong (allegedly!). I don't think we can trust any ear witness 100%, you could pick faults with any of their testimonies. Is this the two students who had their windows open? I know that was mentioned before as I remember thinking 'who are these people with their windows open in the middle of a snowy January night?' Maybe that made the screams clearer to them. The students are also more likely to have been awake at the times of the screams, and not recently roused from sleep like Mr Alford.

Also cannot really discount the accounts of two people because they are students, when it was two students who were astute enough to notice the used condom.

It's possible that the students had their windows open to avoid setting off smoke alarms? (not suggesting all students do is sit around smoking weed/roll-ups, of course!).

 

[mrazda71]

This is the time in the trial where we need to take deep breaths to stay calm. I know I'm already in a rage from a few of the statements and it's not even really started yet!

Indeed!

 

[Vera_dci]

My neighbours have their bedroom window open all year round.

 

[Cherwell]

11:53
Those who are innocent lie 'due to a childish fear they will not be believed', defence says
Mr Saxby is now talking about Mr Thornton, who says he saw Relowicz cleaning his car.

He said: “When he is convinced he saw the man from 24 cleaning his car, Pawel Relowicz’s car, we know was around the corner - we know that from the CCTV.

“That is an example of a theory that he killed Libby Squire and is supported by a set of theories that Sam Alford saw him getting into his car, and that he asphyxiated Libby - even though it couldn’t be proved how she was killed.

“The theory that Mr Thornton saw him cleaning his car can not stand up because his car was not there.

“What this case revolves around is not his bad character or the lies he has told about his past convictions, his problem.

“No doubt those who are guilty lie, but so do those who are innocent due to a childish fear that they will not be believed.”

Libby Squire trial live: Relowicz defence to start

What does that mean, his car was not there? Makes no sense.
And I don't remember it being reported that Sam Alford saw him getting into the car.
This all sounds like waffle to me.

 

[Vera_dci]

He states that the witness couldn't have seen him washing his car as it wasn't there. Where was it then? As surely it wouldn't have been allowed in court as evidence if it can be disproved.

 

[PitchforkRed]

It's possible that the students had their windows open to avoid setting off smoke alarms? (not suggesting all students do is sit around smoking weed/roll-ups, of course!).

I have to say that did cross my mind, yes

 

[Winterbells]

He states that the witness couldn't have seen him washing his car as I wasn't there. Where was it then? As surely it wouldn't have been allowed in court as evidence if it xan be disproved.

Is he saying it was 'round the corner'?

 

[Joolz1975]

My neighbours have their bedroom window open all year round.

I do also, even in the coldest weather.

 

[PitchforkRed]

What does that mean, his car was not there? Makes no sense.
And I don't remember it being reported that Sam Alford saw him getting into the car.
This all sounds like waffle to me.

I didn't understand this either. The sentence above that as well, is it saying that PR's car was around the corner?

 

[Stumpyaura]

Not threatening behaviour?? As a lone female at night, looking up to see a man's face at/through your window or peering through your front door glass (even without the masturbating) is the definition of threatening

 

[havntgotaclue]

I think with all three witnesses we need to take a pinch of salt when it comes to the exact timings. It's likely none are truly accurate. Though I'm inclined to agree I would put more weight on Mr Alford given proximity, detail, recency, and triangulation to the running man. The fact all 3 heard screams is relevant and doesn't make me feel he is any less guilty.

We seem to have forgotren about the heathcote st screams. They were at 12.30am if i remember rightly.

 

[Alyce]

My neighbours have their bedroom window open all year round.

Yes, I am reading it as they had the window open slightly - not wide to the elements. And on a quiet, cold night in February, in that area, sound will travel.