UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

[tedtink]

I think it is interesting that the Defense is suggesting SA may have been wrong about the time he checked his phone but HD did remember what time she checked her phone.

Didn't mention HD's partner's evidence as those 'animal cries' serve no purpose.

 

[Newthoughts]

One of my friends is a Prison Officer at Hull and he said PR didn’t bat an eyelid when told Libby’s body had been found.
His face remained exactly the same
No expression whatsoever

That doesn't surprise me at all really. The lack of empathy he showed is quite chilling.

 

[jamjim]

14:39
Defence explains why Relowicz might have lied in police interviews

Mr Saxby said: “People do lie because they are scared they won’t be believed and don’t realise the effect lying will have and the jeopardy it places on something else that they have not done.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[tedtink]

14:39
Defence explains why Relowicz might have lied in police interviews

Mr Saxby said: “People do lie because they are scared they won’t be believed and don’t realise the effect lying will have and the jeopardy it places on something else that they have not done.”

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

Has Saxby even mentioned the supposed 'consensual sex' yet?
I'm waiting...................

 

[sundaaaay]

14:17
Relowicz could easily have silenced Libby

Mr Saxby has also questioned the nature of the screams heard.

He said: “It would take a second for him [Relowicz] to place a hand over her mouth, are the prosecution saying he wouldn’t be able to silence her in the first scream? During or after the second, third scream, fourth scream, fifth scream?

“Here laid bare the prosecution’s case: ‘She was screaming because he was overpowering her’ it simply doesn’t work. Even if there was 10 seconds in between screams it simply doesn’t work.

“He’s pursuing her is he, this man who is sober and he’s pursuing her and she’s screaming and then she stops?

"We wait ten seconds and presumably he’s caught up with her and there’s another scream and another 10 seconds, she’s managing to flee somehow, another ten seconds. If you look at them properly with an open mind these don’t correspond to the prosecution’s case.

"They’re pretty consistent are they not with a lost, tormented soul wanting help, intermittent screams as you might expect given the position."

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

I’ve never heard of someone letting out blood curdling screams moments before committing suicide.

 

[jamjim]

14:50
Jury asked to consider Libby died due to misadventure

Mr Saxby tells the jury they have to be sure Relowicz caused Libby's death and intended to do so.

He said: “You have two counts and as far as count one is concerned two questions: A: You have to be sure she didn’t consent and B: Be sure he didn’t reasonably believe she was consenting.

“As far as allegation of murder is concerned, in a nutshell he’s got to have assaulted her and that’s got to have caused her death and he must have intended to kill her or cause her serious harm.

“What actually did happen? Remember her medical records, the anguish, torment and a cry for help that wasn’t a deliberate attempt to take her own life.”

Mr Saxby has already invited the jury to consider misadventure.

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

 

[Steve2021]

I'm surprised Mr Saxby has said the chances of there being 2 people distressed in the park within 15 minutes is rather unlikely. I'd expected him to suggest using SAs timings that the mystery man seen leaving could have put Libby in the river.

 

[Newthoughts]

Has Saxby even mentioned the supposed 'consensual sex' yet?
I'm waiting...................

Not yet explicitly. But if I can control my vomit reflex I think I can say He has set the scene. Suicidal, mentally disturbed, impulsive, tortured soul encounters naive and terrified rapist whose only concern was his wife and whose only previous actions have just been terrifying acts of voyeurism.

Meanwhile the real blame lies with those harsh residents of Hull who failed to save PR from this dreadful fate by ensuring the safety of the vulnerable young woman in the brightly lit street.

PR lied but not about the crime just about everything else.

Expert witnesses natural scientific caution about bruises must be interpreted to mean they didn't exist.

I have to stop now. Defence nonsense is sending making my blood boil

 

[JosieJo]

Its a nightmare when we only have the snippets the journalist chooses to put out due to time restraints...the journalists mentions again the "suicide" but skirts over that ...Saxby has already covered misadventure

 

[Newthoughts]

I’ve never heard of someone letting out blood curdling screams moments before committing suicide.

It is unusual. And consenting to sex just before.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Can anyone help me with this? I'm thinking about the defence querying SA's timings and testimony. A few days ago I am pretty sure someone posted a link. It was to a newspaper article - I think it might have been the Express - and I am under the impression it was SA and also his father speaking in the article. One of them mentions that the man seen was sprinting at times. I'm just wanting to verify whether this is what I actually read as it seems to be in conflict with what SA stated in court, that the man seen was walking quickly. I have looked back but can't find it and would love to read it again.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Its a nightmare when we only have the snippets the journalist chooses to put out due to time restraints...the journalists mentions again the "suicide" but skirts over that ...Saxby has already covered misadventure

I agree. I wish we could hear everything.

 

[Zazie]

"Was the man seen even Relowicz?
There’s no question of Mr Alford identifying the man as Pawel Relowicz - he doesn’t say he heard anyone going into a car or a car driving off which he would have done surely? As you heard, as he saw the man going past, put his face to the window so he could see. Alford surely would have heard that?"

No, he wouldn't surely have heard the car driving off. SA's room overlooks the playing fields. ("..his bedroom window looked out onto a track, some woodland, a fishing pond and the River Hull beyond.") So while he would hear screams and witness the fleeing man, he wouldn't necessarily hear a car quietly pulling away from Oak Road at the other side of his house, around the front. (I've assumed it's this house, set hard on the playing fields, but back from Oak Road).



Google Maps

 

[Newthoughts]

14:50
Jury asked to consider Libby died due to misadventure

Mr Saxby tells the jury they have to be sure Relowicz caused Libby's death and intended to do so.

He said: “You have two counts and as far as count one is concerned two questions: A: You have to be sure she didn’t consent and B: Be sure he didn’t reasonably believe she was consenting.

“As far as allegation of murder is concerned, in a nutshell he’s got to have assaulted her and that’s got to have caused her death and he must have intended to kill her or cause her serious harm.

“What actually did happen? Remember her medical records, the anguish, torment and a cry for help that wasn’t a deliberate attempt to take her own life.”

Mr Saxby has already invited the jury to consider misadventure.

Libby Squire murder trial live: Defence gives closing statement

Er what happened to capacity to consent?

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Can anyone help me with this? I'm thinking about the defence querying SA's timings and testimony. A few days ago I am pretty sure someone posted a link. It was to a newspaper article - I think it might have been the Express - and I am under the impression it was SA and also his father speaking in the article. One of them mentions that the man seen was sprinting at times. I'm just wanting to verify whether this is what I actually read as it seems to be in conflict with what SA stated in court, that the man seen was walking quickly. I have looked back but can't find it and would love to read it again.

I think his father’s information should be considered hearsay. He could have elaborated being interviewed by a reporter.

 

[Steve2021]

"Was the man seen even Relowicz?
There’s no question of Mr Alford identifying the man as Pawel Relowicz - he doesn’t say he heard anyone going into a car or a car driving off which he would have done surely? As you heard, as he saw the man going past, put his face to the window so he could see. Alford surely would have heard that?"

No, he wouldn't surely have heard the car driving off. SA's room overlooks the playing fields. ("..his bedroom window looked out onto a track, some woodland, a fishing pond and the River Hull beyond.") So while he would hear screams and witness the fleeing man, he wouldn't necessarily hear a car quietly pulling away from Oak Road at the other side of his house, around the front. (I've assumed it's this house, set hard on the playing fields, but back from Oak Road).

View attachment 282410

Google Maps

Quite right, another slightly lame point from Mr Saxby in my opinion which like you the jury will hear and immediately think that's rubbish.

 

[LastSeenWearing]

I wonder who the man who was walking quickly out of ORPF actually was if it was not as the defence states PR. Would this man not have come forward to eliminate himself from any enquires or more police work put into finding him if PR had driven off and Libby was heard screaming with a man walking from the area quickly??

 

[JosieJo]

Er what happened to capacity to consent?

Presumably the judge will cover that its part of A

 

[Cherwell]

I think his father’s information should be considered hearsay. He could have elaborated being interviewed by a reporter.

Exactly, it's hearsay - the father didn't witness anything. It's his version of what he remembered his son telling him, not a verbatim account.

 

[Steve2021]

Can anyone help me with this? I'm thinking about the defence querying SA's timings and testimony. A few days ago I am pretty sure someone posted a link. It was to a newspaper article - I think it might have been the Express - and I am under the impression it was SA and also his father speaking in the article. One of them mentions that the man seen was sprinting at times. I'm just wanting to verify whether this is what I actually read as it seems to be in conflict with what SA stated in court, that the man seen was walking quickly. I have looked back but can't find it and would love to read it again.

Hi, I'm pretty sure last night someone linked to that article...might have been in the Express. It was a report of what SA saw but seemed rather different to his police statement and court evidence.