GUILTY UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, teaching asst, found deceased, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *teen arrested* #5

[ShamelessObserver]

I think the points been made on here before Shameless, anybody with a vehicle would have put some considerable distance between the crime scene and or LBs abduction and where they would dispose of the body and not rely on a local youth and a wheelie bin.

There is no crime scene though

 

[sunflower22]

I was at The Coppice yesterday with a friend, we walked from Peel Park Avenue towards The Coppice and into the entrance LB apparently walked into. We even managed to spot the barbed wire fench (approx 180 meters from the entrance gate) that the red anorak was seen on. We also found the parallel path ZB referred to in her evidence when she said a lone male was following her. Interestingly enough, the parallel path is above the main path she walked on, but it does steep down to indeed meet the main path before you carry on down the descent back to the car park and main gate. Some personal opinions:

• It's a busy enough place. There were plenty of people around, to kill someone on that path and drag them into the field next to it would require incredible luck and precision timing not to be seen or heard by someone.

• At the top of peel park avenue there's a winding road that takes you up to The Coppice. Anyway at the midway point of the winding road, there's an off road path (a car could fit down) and space to park a car just in front of it. In fact, there was a car parked there as we walked past.

• If indeed she was killed on The Coppice, how on earth Rocky got a bin up there and loaded her in and then got back down would require incredible strength. It's really steep, muddy and hilly. To do that alone would just be almost impossible.

I am now having doubts that she even made it up to The Coppice. Has anyone else been???

All MOO

I go to the coppice a lot and my child goes to meet friends. Like you say it is very busy especially this time of year with it been the school holidays. I don’t understand why no one else has seen him considering he was in the coppice for approx 1.5 hours. Entering at 2.30 till the last sighting of Lindsay just after 4. There still a lot of doubt for me. If he was the only one in the coppice when ZB was why didn’t he attack her?

 

[sunflower22]

I was at The Coppice yesterday with a friend, we walked from Peel Park Avenue towards The Coppice and into the entrance LB apparently walked into. We even managed to spot the barbed wire fench (approx 180 meters from the entrance gate) that the red anorak was seen on. We also found the parallel path ZB referred to in her evidence when she said a lone male was following her. Interestingly enough, the parallel path is above the main path she walked on, but it does steep down to indeed meet the main path before you carry on down the descent back to the car park and main gate. Some personal opinions:

• It's a busy enough place. There were plenty of people around, to kill someone on that path and drag them into the field next to it would require incredible luck and precision timing not to be seen or heard by someone.

• At the top of peel park avenue there's a winding road that takes you up to The Coppice. Anyway at the midway point of the winding road, there's an off road path (a car could fit down) and space to park a car just in front of it. In fact, there was a car parked there as we walked past.

• If indeed she was killed on The Coppice, how on earth Rocky got a bin up there and loaded her in and then got back down would require incredible strength. It's really steep, muddy and hilly. To do that alone would just be almost impossible.

I am now having doubts that she even made it up to The Coppice. Has anyone else been???

All MOO

I go to the coppice a lot and my child goes to meet friends. Like you say it is very busy especially this time of year with it been the school holidays. I don’t understand why no one else has seen him considering he was in the coppice for approx 1.5 hours. Entering at 2.30 till the last sighting of Lindsay just after 4. There still a lot of doubt for me. If he was the only one in the coppice when ZB was why didn’t he attack her?

 

[JosieJo]

If these people are so sure of his innocence, where were they before it went to court, when the trial collapsed and it went to court again?

Why not march and protest, scream and cry, set up groups and wear tshirts before he was convicted?

Why were they not looking for this mystery man/real killer, making appeals and offering rewards before he was convicted.

Why did we not see any headlines like 'unnamed teenager wrongly accused, real killer is out there' claims an anonymous family member'? BS!

No shame.
JMO

To me it really sounds like they had faith the justice system would find him not guilty on murder
He fully admitted his part in the moving of her and I honestly think the parents took him to the police believing someone else killed her and thats what he would be found guilty of
They knew he was going to prison for a very long time for hiding a body when they dropped him off

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Personally I don't believe anything like that. There are ways and means of appealing and doing their own investigations without this kind of trashy behaviour. I feel so sorry for Lindsey's family, bad enough they had to be dragged through 2 trials and now these dreadful people are causing them even more grief and pain by their their ridiculous carry on. JMO

 

[JosieJo]

I think the points been made on here before Shameless, anybody with a vehicle would have put some considerable distance between the crime scene and or LBs abduction and where they would dispose of the body and not rely on a local youth and a wheelie bin.

I don't disagree at all ...but...in theory if you wanted the body found and someone else charged for her murder .. leaving an easy led challenged boy to do the disposal is actually very clever

 

[JosieJo]

Personally I don't believe anything like that. There are ways and means of appealing and doing their own investigations without this kind of trashy behaviour. I feel so sorry for Lindsey's family, bad enough they had to be dragged through 2 trials and now these dreadful people are causing them even more grief and pain by their their ridiculous carry on. JMO

I totally agree ..but my point was about why not how they are going about this
They are constantly saying they feel so sorry for Lindsay and her family on social media and although its totally the wrong way of going about things...although stereotypical imo a march is very "low key" for people of their background

 

[Roostercat]

To me it really sounds like they had faith the justice system would find him not guilty on murder
He fully admitted his part in the moving of her and I honestly think the parents took him to the police believing someone else killed her and thats what he would be found guilty of
They knew he was going to prison for a very long time for hiding a body when they dropped him off

I think you could be right they believed their defence team would get him off. He is by all accounts a very exerienced Barrister. I mentioned on here the other week that I had a connection with the junior Mr Stewart, now this wasn't told to me first hand so it could or could not be true but apparently on meeting RMP, a member of the defence team stated that there is no way he could have conceivably committed this crime alone, just didn't have the mental capacity (the exact words I heard, were not quite as complimentary as this so don't want to put on open forum).

 

[Spender]

I think you could be right they believed their defence team would get him off. He is by all accounts a very exerienced Barrister. I mentioned on here the other week that I had a connection with the junior Mr Stewart, now this wasn't told to me first hand so it could or could not be true but apparently on meeting RMP, a member of the defence team stated that there is no way he could have conceivably committed this crime alone, just didn't have the mental capacity (the exact words I heard, were not quite as complimentary as this so don't want to put on open forum).

I think you are bang on there .....they handed him in for the crime he DID without doubt commit but never imagined they’d throw the book at him for the whole crime .....or on the flip side if another family member had been jointly involved they may have thought to offer up the boy with learning difficulties to take the blame as he would get off lightly due to his condition. Even if he didn’t kill her I still think he had help getting rid of the evidence JMO.

 

[Spender]

If these people are so sure of his innocence, where were they before it went to court, when the trial collapsed and it went to court again?

Why not march and protest, scream and cry, set up groups and wear tshirts before he was convicted?

Why were they not looking for this mystery man/real killer, making appeals and offering rewards before he was convicted.

Why did we not see any headlines like 'unnamed teenager wrongly accused, real killer is out there' claims an anonymous family member'? BS!

No shame.
JMO

They obviously believed he wouldn’t be found guilty of the murder and only do a stretch for the part he admitted to .

 

[sunflower22]

If

I think you could be right they believed their defence team would get him off. He is by all accounts a very exerienced Barrister. I mentioned on here the other week that I had a connection with the junior Mr Stewart, now this wasn't told to me first hand so it could or could not be true but apparently on meeting RMP, a member of the defence team stated that there is no way he could have conceivably committed this crime alone, just didn't have the mental capacity (the exact words I heard, were not quite as complimentary as this so don't want to put on open forum).

if you read the sentence remarks on the crown court page it goes into a little more detail of his vulnerability, he was assessed twice in February this year. Definitely sounds like he couldn’t be capable of this especially not alone.

 

[PiggyStardust]

If

if you read the sentence remarks on the crown court page it goes into a little more detail of his vulnerability, he was assessed twice in February this year. Definitely sounds like he couldn’t be capable of this especially not alone.

It’s well worth reading all of the sentence remarks from the Learned Lady. No ifs or buts he did it.

 

[Roostercat]

It’s well worth reading all of the sentence remarks from the Learned Lady. No ifs or buts he did it.

Oh yes, I think the vast majority of posters on this thread fully believe he did it, I think we are just trying to understand the protest of innocence from his family members. If they had constantly been told by the defence team that they had a strong case for acquittal coupled with the local rumour mill and many people believing there was more going on, you can kind of understand why they believe he was 'wrongly convicted'. It came as a surprise. The family themselves have got caught up in it all.

I finally think I may have worked out the cutting up of her shoes.... looking at the recent photos of LB's trainers released post verdict, it appears they were the sketchers that have 'mock' laces. I have a similar pair. The trainers have laces but can't be undone, for example see link. (Skechers Arch Fit - Lucky Thoughts)
I wonder if RP simply couldn't fathom out that they didn't need to be undone hence him cutting them off. This could account for why they were found but her clothes were not. He disposed of the clothes immediately but decided he needed a knife to cut the shoes off which he did at a later date.

Last post on this for me as I am desperately trying to catch upon Libby Squire (I'm on thread 4 of 17!) Quick question - is the delay in this going to trial just because of Covid?

Thanks fellow sleuthers x

 

[Sally4x]

Last post on this for me as I am desperately trying to catch upon Libby Squire (I'm on thread 4 of 17!) Quick question - is the delay in this going to trial just because of Covid?

Thanks fellow sleuthers x

Yes the delay is because of Covid.

 

[Rishtoner]

I've been avidly following the discussions in the Justice for Rocky groups.
I absolutely do not believe for 1 second that he acted alone.
I also do not believe that she was killed on the Coppice either.

 

[chimpface]

I've been avidly following the discussions in the Justice for Rocky groups.
I absolutely do not believe for 1 second that he acted alone.
I also do not believe that she was killed on the Coppice either.

Who helped him then? And where was she killed?

 

[Spender]

Who helped him then? And where was she killed?

I’ve been on the Justice group and there have been some good points made as to why he couldn’t possibly have carried the whole job out himself but still no clear evidence to prove it . The ex hubby is getting a battering for his behaviour throughout this .
Due to the timescale I don’t think she got much further than Whittakers car park ....imo ...possibly bungled in to a vehicle . ...that would make sense for why they didn’t find her ? The page is starting to loose steam now as nothing new is coming to light . Until they find the fit bit , phone etc they’ve got nothing. The thing that concerns me is the lack of info regarding the devices ....they could tap in to fit bit data to find when her heart stopped etc and the timings but nothing . This case is far from closed I suspect .

 

[chimpface]

I’ve been on the Justice group and there have been some good points made as to why he couldn’t possibly have carried the whole job out himself but still no clear evidence to prove it . The ex hubby is getting a battering for his behaviour throughout this .
Due to the timescale I don’t think she got much further than Whittakers car park ....imo ...possibly bungled in to a vehicle . ...that would make sense for why they didn’t find her ? The page is starting to loose steam now as nothing new is coming to light . Until they find the fit bit , phone etc they’ve got nothing. The thing that concerns me is the lack of info regarding the devices ....they could tap in to fit bit data to find when her heart stopped etc and the timings but nothing . This case is far from closed I suspect .

I suspect that you are wrong and the case is closed. A suspect was tried and found guilty in court. They can bleat on Facebook all they want about "justice for Rocky" but all the evidence pointed to him and no one else and a jury of 12 peers found him guilty very quickly.

I have nothing more to say in this thread as all the speculation/rumours from these ridiculous groups on Facebook that are probably just family and friends of the convicted doesn't help and isn't going to change anything. Her family should be able to grieve in peace.

RIP Lyndsey

 

[JosieJo]

I must admit personally i think its the only case I've followed where I was shocked by the quick decision of the Jury

Although I do trust our justice system i don't think we can say ...he was tried thats the end of it ..its not impossible he did not kill her albeit unlikely

There was absolutely no direct evidence to link him to her actual death which is difficult to swallow especially when combined with a vulnerable boy

 

[Spender]

I must admit personally i think its the only case I've followed where I was shocked by the quick decision of the Jury

Although I do trust our justice system i don't think we can say ...he was tried thats the end of it ..its not impossible he did not kill her albeit unlikely

There was absolutely no direct evidence to link him to her actual death which is difficult to swallow especially when combined with a vulnerable boy

The fact he has such a low IQ and has single handedly managed to kill, hide and bury her while hundreds of people searched for Lindsay all around him just doesn’t sit well with me . I’m sure he did what he said he had done but until more real facts ever become available rather than what has been made public then that real doubt will hang over this case for me . In one way I hope he did the crime because if he didn’t then justice for Lindsay and her family hasn’t been done . Just my opinion.