UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8
Thread #9

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.

As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:

Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.


Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Numerous posts have been removed.

There is no MSM or other source to support speculation about any specific mental health issue of the accused. This includes autism, which oddly seems to crop in so many discussions when there is nothing to warrant it.

Sub judice is not the topic of this discussion. It is applicable to all cases in the UK.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is specifically dedicated to discussion of the trial for the accused Lucy Letby. Please discuss this trial without bringing other cases into the discussion. All that does is introduce support for speculation regarding guilt or innocence which is sub judice.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

From the Verification Process page:

If you would like to add yourself as an expert in a certain field or as an insider to a case, please send an email to [email protected] Please note this is a new email address.

If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area and that you do not claim to be a professional in any area.

If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion; much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.

Click here for the list of verified professionals and verified insiders.

Please cease the bickering about statistics and statisticians. We have no verified statisticians posting on this thread, no statisticians who have testified in court and whose testimony you can discuss. You may have a conversation in PMs if you wish, but don't bring it to the thread. Up to 20 can participate, and such a thread can't be seen or moderated by moderators or administration.

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN REMINDER:
If what you post is your OPINION, you MUST a be clear about that with a qualifier like IMHO or similar. Otherwise your post reads as a statement of FACT without the required substantiating link, and it is subject to being REMOVED.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please remember that any post expressing an opinion of either guilt or innocence is in violation of sub judice rules.

Posts that violate sub judice get removed, along with all responses to them.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

As we don't have the staff to sit in this thread 24/7 to read posts in real time, please use the Report feature to alert Moderators to any post that you feel is sub judice and it will be reviewed and removed if necessary.

Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

This is a trial discussion thread. If a post insinuates or expresses an opinion regarding the guilt or innocence of the accused, it it sub judice and will be removed.

Please review the Admin Note in the Opening Posts of this discussion:

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

Sky News link: Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8

www.websleuths.com

 

[ColourPurple]

I was kind of hoping there’d be someone who knew LL not as a nurse but as a friend who could give some insight into how she was acting at the time, what she was going through in her personal life etc…

I guess I’ve been wondering since the first arrest whether there was a bad breakup or an ex she was particularly angry with or something going on in her life around 2015..
We know very little about her life outside of work, did she seem distracted or withdrawn for example? Usually in murder cases you get old friends coming out the woodwork with stories in the media for example, yet in this case there’s nothing!

It intrigues me too whether, if guilty, something triggered her to suddenly start trying to kill babies in June 2015. If guilty, I've pondered whether it might have been any of the following possibilities:

1. If something significant had happened in her personal life (a death, a break up, pregnancy loss etc)
2. If she was trying to get the attention of one of the members of the crash team
3. If June was a significant anniversary date for her
4. If it was to do with Fathers day approaching
5. If she witnessed a baby's(none suspsicious) death and enjoyed the drama of it
6. If she had been building up to it by harming babies in less noticeable ones for a long time
7. If she had recently done her emergency care training and wanted to put it into practice
8. If she had seen dramatic resus attempts on TV hospital docusoaps and wanted to recreate something similar

 

[Sweeper2000]

@ColourPurple

“Apart from the fact that it wasn't Dr Jayaram alone who voiced concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses (it was him along with other senior colleagues) Are you really saying that that was a lie and that you think her name was only mentioned because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???
Really?”

I doubt they all had that same idea at the same time, check the notes and posts again to double check.

 

[ColourPurple]

@ColourPurple

“Apart from the fact that it wasn't Dr Jayaram alone who voiced concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses (it was him along with other senior colleagues) Are you really saying that that was a lie and that you think her name was only mentioned because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???
Really?”

I doubt they all had that same idea at the same time, check the notes and posts again to double check.

You didn't really answer my question.

I'll rephrase it slightly:

Are you really saying that you think Dr Jayaram (or anybody else) was lying when he raised concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses, and that you think he only mentioned her name because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???

 

[Sweeper2000]

i Didn’t say that, nope. “Assuming she is innocent“.

 

[ColourPurple]

@ColourPurple

“Apart from the fact that it wasn't Dr Jayaram alone who voiced concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses (it was him along with other senior colleagues) Are you really saying that that was a lie and that you think her name was only mentioned because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???
Really?”

I doubt they all had that same idea at the same time, check the notes and posts again to double check.

You didn't really answer my question.

I'll rephrase it slightly:

Are you really saying that you think Dr Jayaram (or anybody else) was lying when he raised concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses, and that you think he only mentioned her name because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???

i Didn’t say that, nope. “Assuming she is innocent“.

Your original post said:
I’m just wondering how the tv doc initially came to suspect her really. I know he said it was due to the association with otherwise unexplained events but I doubt he would say, “she is too quiet, weird and shes blonde“. that note of hers also includes the word discrimination. There also seems to be cases that don’t point to her involvement other than being around Like child H. Jmo.

Seems to be implying that you think Dr Jayaram gave a false reason for why he suspected her.

But I think I'll leave it there, as I'm not convinced that even you agree with what you wrote.

 

[Sweeper2000]

You didn't really answer my question.

I'll rephrase it slightly:

Are you really saying that you think Dr Jayaram (or anybody else) was lying when he raised concerns about how often LL was present at babies' collapses, and that you think he only mentioned her name because she was too quiet, weird and ... *checks notes*... blonde???

So what other than her being around made him or others think it was her? Assuming she is innocent. They were examples of discrimination IMO Obviously.

 

[Dotta]

It intrigues me too whether, if guilty, something triggered her to suddenly start trying to kill babies in June 2015. If guilty, I've pondered whether it might have been any of the following possibilities:

1. If something significant had happened in her personal life (a death, a break up, pregnancy loss etc)
2. If she was trying to get the attention of one of the members of the crash team
3. If June was a significant anniversary date for her
4. If it was to do with Fathers day approaching
5. If she witnessed a baby's(none suspsicious) death and enjoyed the drama of it
6. If she had been building up to it by harming babies in less noticeable ones for a long time
7. If she had recently done her emergency care training and wanted to put it into practice
8. If she had seen dramatic resus attempts on TV hospital docusoaps and wanted to recreate something similar

Umm...
If guilty...

The answer (IMO) can be only one:
Very, and I mean VERY disturbed psyche.

(Allegedly)

Too bad that untreated.
Or maybe treated - but not adequately.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Umm...
If guilty...

The answer can be only one:
Very, and I mean VERY disturbed psyche.

Too bad that untreated.

JMO

You mean, if guilty, it was something that could have happened at any point and didn't neccessarily need a trigger?

 

[Dotta]

You mean, if guilty, it was something that could have happened at any point and didn't neccessarily need a trigger?

Exactly.
How many of us have to overcome difficulties in life?
Do they "trigger" us?
Or help us to toughen up and learn?
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Exactly.
How many of us have to overcome difficulties in life?
Do they "trigger" us?
Or help us to toughen up?
JMO

If guilty, I was just looking at what may have triggered her to start at that particular time, rather than what made her capable of doing it at all. But yours is a good point in that maybe there was no trigger and the timing of when she started isn't relevant. All IMO , if guilty etc.

 

[JosieJo]

It intrigues me too whether, if guilty, something triggered her to suddenly start trying to kill babies in June 2015. If guilty, I've pondered whether it might have been any of the following possibilities:

1. If something significant had happened in her personal life (a death, a break up, pregnancy loss etc)
2. If she was trying to get the attention of one of the members of the crash team
3. If June was a significant anniversary date for her
4. If it was to do with Fathers day approaching
5. If she witnessed a baby's(none suspsicious) death and enjoyed the drama of it
6. If she had been building up to it by harming babies in less noticeable ones for a long time
7. If she had recently done her emergency care training and wanted to put it into practice
8. If she had seen dramatic resus attempts on TV hospital docusoaps and wanted to recreate something similar

All of those are interesting