UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

[DianaWW]

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Another nurse broke down in tears as she recalled Letby telling her a baby looked pale – even though she was standing six feet away and the infant's cot was in a darkened room with her top half covered by a canopy.

When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.

The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.

Unaware that the infant was unwell, Nurse Hudson returned to the nursery but did not immediately examine her. Instead she began preparing the milk with her back to Baby I's cot.

[...]

'She was in the doorway and said something along the lines of "(Baby) I looks pale" or "Don't you think (Baby) I looks pale?"'

Asked by Simon Driver, prosecuting, what the light was like in the nursery, Nurse Hudson replied: 'The main light for the room was switched off but the light in the corridor was on. So you were able to do things in the room and have enough light to see where your patients were and where the equipment was.'

Some light from the corridor came into the room through a window. They were sometimes kept in front of the window, but they did not obscure much of the light.

[...]

'I couldn't see her. I could see that she was in the cot, but I couldn't see the top half because she was covered by the canopy. I switched the main light on'.

Mr Driver: 'Was there anything about the layout or lighting that would have afforded her a better view of the baby than the one you had?'

Nurse Hudson replied: 'No'.

She added: 'After switching the light on I immediately went to I, pushed back the canopy and realised she was in quite poor condition'.

more at link

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

Quite surprised this was left out of the other 2 round-ups I’ve read for today. Makes me wonder what else we’ve missed, as I thought this was quite an important piece of evidence!

 

[Sweeper2000]

I struggle with an innocent explanation for this ..how could anyone know the baby looked pale?

the reflective value of paler colours or colours closer to white is higher or more reflective of light than others. White skin reflects more light than red or pink, in a room with less lighting anything white stands out more. She also would only need to see a hand Or arm or foot or leg.It’s still LL pointing out a potential problem of a baby she is supposed to have wanted to kill or harm. Not sure it says much but that’s assuming LL did have a clear line of sight. Interesting account of how that happened though. Jmo.

 

[JosieJo]

the reflective value of paler colours or colours closer to white is higher or more reflective of light than others. White skin reflects more light than red or pink, in a room with less lighting anything white stands out more. She also would only need to see a hand Or arm or foot or leg.It’s still LL pointing out a potential problem of a baby she is supposed to have wanted to kill or harm. Not sure it says much but that’s assuming LL did have a clear line of sight. Interesting account of how that happened though. Jmo.

The nurse said she was nearer than LL and couldn't see
It screams of LL wanting the nurse to check on the baby

Also if LL by some miracle could see pallor which sounds impossible..the natural instinct would be to go closer and look

No ...imo this is on a par with standing near a baby that's screaming with blood on its face doing nothing

 

[Sweeper2000]

I’m actually just re-reading that same point thinking the same; “my babies”.

I do know some midwives refer to their patients as “their ladies”, so this can be a very genuine caring comment on one hand. On the other, if guilty, it now makes me wonder if she has lost a child herself or is creating an environment where she is positioning herself as the “bereaved grieving parent” too (IMO). I think back to the mother bathing the baby and why she kept going back in there. It’s really odd. We’re hearing she was upset and in tears (again, even this can be faked by some people), but if it’s that upsetting, why is she always “there” in the thick of all the grief. Just such a strange case IMO

totally agree. It could well be an example of a more human moment IMO suggesting emotional attachment. It’s also true that if guilty it could be a way to be the Center of attention. Seems like a more emotional moment so is in line with what’s normal.

just by going with moo and others here seemingly, she does seem somewhat detached but if that’s normal for her and she isn’t guilty and has more of the normal human traits, conscientiousness, anxiety etc she could remain detached until there is a strong reason to be emotionally engaged. So if everything is fine she remains at a distance but when something is a real pusher of the emotional button becomes engaged. That is more or less normal IMO. For some people emotions can be a very taxing and tiring thing, social people love them though. Jmo.

 

[Tortoise]

Also, IMO, saying "my" directs some sympathy of others towards her, not only the babies.
Like "poor me, I took care of my babies, but look what happened".
JMO

Without a shadow of a doubt IMO.

It's all about poor LL.

Also confirming what the doctors noticed.

LL says 'it's always my babies'
The doctors think 'it's always her babies'.

No discrimination or victimisation there.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

The nurse said she was nearer than LL and couldn't see
It screams of LL wanting the nurse to check on the baby

Also if LL by some miracle could see pallor which sounds impossible..the natural instinct would be to go closer and look

No ...imo this is on a par with standing near a baby that's screaming with blood on its face doing nothing

Do we know which room this is?

if the nurse reentered the room and was doing the task on the table to the right of the picture with her back turned on the cot and didn’t check the baby she would not have necessarily seen the pallor. If the door is to the left of where that picture was taken it would seem anyone standing there would have a clearer line of sight compared to anyone standing and looking at the table.

if you think about it, apparent inaction to a baby needing care is the opposite to pointing out a baby that could need care especially when the act is potentially self incriminating and against a supposed desire to kill or harm.

jmo though.

 

[Dotta]

Without a shadow of a doubt IMO.

It's all about poor LL.

Also confirming what the doctors noticed.

LL says 'it's always my babies'
The doctors think 'it's always her babies'.

No discrimination or victimisation there.

JMO

Not her first "slip of unconscious mind".
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Reminder of the testimony

'I couldn't see her. I could see that she was in the cot, but I couldn't see the top half because she was covered by the canopy. I switched the main light on'.

Mr Driver: 'Was there anything about the layout or lighting that would have afforded her a better view of the baby than the one you had?'

Nurse Hudson replied: 'No'.


Ashleigh Hudson was shown various images and selected the one she thought showed the lighting as it was that day

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

 

[JosieJo]

Do we know which room this is?

if the nurse reentered the room and was doing the task on the table to the right of the picture with her back turned on the cot and didn’t check the baby she would not have necessarily seen the pallor. If the door is to the left of where that picture was taken it would seem anyone standing there would have a clearer line of sight compared to anyone standing and looking at the table.

if you think about it, apparent inaction to a baby needing care is the opposite to pointing out a baby that could need care especially when the act is potentially self incriminating and against a supposed desire to kill or harm.

jmo though.

I'm sorry but no one would see pallor in a tiny baby in a darkened room in a cot covered by a hood ...standing 5 to 6 feet away .. if you really wanted to help a baby who you thought was pale you would go and look

Imo its very difficult to take anything from this situation other than LL has "as alleged" done something to the baby and doesn’t want to be the one to "discover" the collapse...but be near enough to be part of the crash call that would ensue

 

[Sweeper2000]

judging by that picture the entrance is on the left or behind the photo. Ie in the corner. Doesn’t make sense from a layout perspective to have a table in your way when you walk into a room Which would be the case if the door is directly behind the photo taker. Bruised legs, dropped equipment, obstruction etc. Jmo.

could be that where the light is coming from though that that’s the wall with the entrance so the door is on that wall in the bottom left hand corner. Assuming the left hand side wall has no table and the nurse was at the table on the right and LL was standing in the door she still has a clearer line of sight than the nurse. It still makes no sense to have that table on the right in the way of anyone walking into the room with the equipment on the right hand side. Granted though LL would be further away.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm sorry but no one would see pallor in a tiny baby in a darkened room in a cot covered by a hood ...standing 5 to 6 feet away .. if you really wanted to help a baby who you thought was pale you would go and look

Imo its very difficult to take anything from this situation other than LL has "as alleged" done something to the baby and doesn’t want to be the one to "discover" the collapse...but be near enough to be part of the crash call that would ensue

I think if she did cause the collapse, LL wanting the other nurse to raise the alarm and LL deliberately not stepping inside the room, could be because of her acute awareness that everyone is noticing it's 'always LL's babies'. JMO

This is the occasion we're told Dr Evans said the apnoea monitor might have been silenced or switched off.

 

[JosieJo]

judging by that picture the entrance is on the left or behind the photo. Ie in the corner. Doesn’t make sense from a layout perspective to have a table in your way when you walk into a room Which would be the case if the door is directly behind the photo taker. Bruised legs, dropped equipment, obstruction etc. Jmo.

The photo has been produced and checked by the nurse to replicate the view LL would have had based on her witness testimony

 

[Sweeper2000]

The photo has been produced and checked by the nurse to replicate the view LL would have had based on her witness testimony

The testimony suggests the picture was taken according to what level of light was in the room at the time. Not from doorway perspective. Any ideas on which room this was Please ? I think we have a layout drawn up somewhere?


Ashleigh Hudson was shown various images and selected the one she thought showed the lighting as it was that day

 

[ShireChe]

Sub j.
I still don't remember this particular Eng? expression

ETA
(Latin) sub judice

I mean more in court. But it's unlikely we are going to get any of this information, until after the case has finished or the defence feel they can benefit from any character witness

 

[Dotta]

I mean more in court. But it's unlikely we are going to get any of this information, until after the case has finished or the defence feel they can benefit from any character witness

I guess both Prosecution and Defence might bring witnesses for so called "character statements" of the defendant.

But it may be after all cases of babies are presented.

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

The testimony suggests the picture was taken according to what level of light was in the room at the time. Not from doorway perspective. Any ideas on which room this was Please ? I think we have a layout drawn up somewhere?


Ashleigh Hudson was shown various images and selected the one she thought showed the lighting as it was that day

The doorway is where the photo was taken from ...you can see this as the light is coming from ward corridor windows.

Imo the prosecution are not going to take a photo showing light conditions if it doesn't relate to where LL was stood ..what would be the point? The defence would automatically rip it to shreds

 

[Sweeper2000]

The doorway is where the photo was taken from ...you can see this as the light is coming from ward corridor windows.

Imo the prosecution are not going to take a photo showing light conditions if it doesn't relate to where LL was stood ..what would be the point? The defence would automatically rip it to shreds

They would if they thought they could make out the light or lack thereof would have prevented anyone seeing the pallor. If that nurse was close to the crib and doing something at the table as according to the testimony then anyone entering the room has a clearer line of sight but is further away.

imo if she was at that table she would also not only need the light to see what she was doing but would also be staring into the light thus her eyes would let Less light in rather than someone staring into the dark room, thus making the latter individual better able to see in the dark.

that would also make sense from a planning perspective, the light from the corridor shines on the table allowing users to see. Still not perfect for the crib to be where it is though, you have to turn right to get to it when entering the door, bruised legs, dropped equipment, basic obstruction.

 

[Dotta]

The testimony suggests the picture was taken according to what level of light was in the room at the time. Not from doorway perspective. Any ideas on which room this was Please ? I think we have a layout drawn up somewhere?


Ashleigh Hudson was shown various images and selected the one she thought showed the lighting as it was that day

I really admire your dedication and tenacity
It means we have balanced discussion.

Greetings from the other side of the fence

 

[JosieJo]

They would if they thought they could make out the light or lack thereof would have prevented anyone seeing the pallor. If that nurse was close to the crib and doing something at the table as according to the testimony then anyone entering the room has a clearer line of sight but is further away.

imo if she was at that table she would also not only need the light to see what she was doing but would also be staring into the light thus her eyes would let Less light in rather than someone staring into the dark room, thus making the latter individual better able to see in the dark.

that would also make sense from a planning perspective, the light from the corridor shines on the table allowing users to see.

The defence has not suggested this as far as we know ..they only questioned the nurse on how she could remember the exact level of light at the time and didn't really seem to succeed at even that

Lucy Letby: Murder-accused nurse cried over baby collapses, court told

Lucy Letby said it felt like babies often became seriously ill on her shifts, a doctor tells a jury.

www.bbc.com

 

[Sweeper2000]

The defence has not suggested this as far as we know ..they only questioned the nurse on how she could remember the exact level of light at the time and didn't really seem to succeed at even that

Lucy Letby: Murder-accused nurse cried over baby collapses, court told

Lucy Letby said it felt like babies often became seriously ill on her shifts, a doctor tells a jury.

www.bbc.com

do you think mr Myers should then?