GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[SusanDonim]

Indeed!

It is not difficult to make someone appear.

I can personally list dozens of people who would be more than happy to ensure a murderers appearance in the dock and who would do so without harming said defendant.

Like I say, it is an utterly ridiculous suggestion that a convicted person gets to choose how their life goes. If a convicted murderer refuses to go to prison then are they allowed to go home? Why is there a difference about coming up for sentence?

Like surely they must come up but could put their hands over their ears, sing lalala with their eyes shut. I can only think it's an archaic UK law thing. Maybe we should all write to our MPs on the matter ?

 

[May72031]

Strangely enough, I have a annual medical review (via phone) from my local hospital at 2:30PM.

Wonder if the judge will have completed his sentencing after 30 minutes? Having followed this trial, the sentencing might not have even started by then...

 

[Tortoise]

I think there will be proceedings in the morning, victim impact statements and legal submissions, which won't be video broadcast but will be live tweeted/blogged by the usual reporters, and then it will switch over to the judge's livestream in the afternoon. Judge's sentencing remarks are usually livestreamed on YouTube.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Like surely they must come up but could put their hands over their ears, sing lalala with their eyes shut. I can only think it's an archaic UK law thing. Maybe we should all write to our MPs on the matter ?

I'm not even sure that it's some archaic piece of law.

I suspect that it's some ridiculous modern Haman Rights rubbish which is easier to bow down to rather than actually stand up to.

Personally, if based on some principle of archaic law then that would more likely suggest that people could be dragged by force to the court if need be.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've not been on WS for ages. (Only started after the verdict and then felt so angry about the case details that I had to log in)

Do you mean another romantic attachment? TC - LL? I've only just scratched the surface ( I've managed epsiodes mail podcast and another one I listened to called 'Crime Scene 2 Courtroom' )

"Romantic attachment" may be making it seem more grand than it is, IMO.

 

[Dotta]

"Parents of babies murdered by Lucy Letby tonight demanded a law change to stop 'cowardly' offenders from 'hiding' when they are sentenced.

The killer nurse, 33, is expected to refuse to appear in the dock when the judge imposes her punishment tomorrow."

Parents of babies targeted by Lucy Letby DEMAND sentencing law change

Lucy Letby (pictured), 33, is expected to refuse to appear in the dock when the judge imposes her punishment later today but the Government has today vowed to force the child killer to attend.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Parker Knoll]

NHS manager who ‘ignored serious concerns’ about Lucy Letby suspended

Alison Kelly accused in court of failing to act on several warnings about nurse who murdered seven babies at Countess of Chester Hospital

www.telegraph.co.uk

Alison Kelly suspended ( this is behind a paywall again )

 

[Dotta]

"Lucy Letby's life in prison will be defined by suicide checks every five minutes, a target on her back and therapists trying to work out why on earth she did it."​

Lucy Letby will have target on back in prison, says DR ANTHONY DANIELS

DR ANTHONY DANIELS: Shortly after Grantham Hospital nurse Beverley Allitt was sent to prison in 1993 for killing four babies, I was asked to assess a nurse in the hospital in which I worked.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The fact that Tony Chambers apparently wrote in a letter to consultants in 2018 that he had had to "balance the safety of babies and their families, the well-being of staff, and the reputation of the services". Just no! The safety of babies should be an absolute priority. It should never be something that you have to weigh up against the impact on the hospital's reputation FFS!

100% 'safety of babies' comes paramount and anyone who could write this sentence is literally a psychopath and he needs to be up in court next IMO. This is insane, it's got to stop.

 

[kittythehare]

Susan Ogilvy (?) was interviewed on a radio 4 news programme this week.
Hope I have the name correct - it's the woman who took over from Chambers and then started litigation for constructive dismissal.

Anyway, she said that there was a very real divide at Countess between nurses and doctors and that she felt it was one part of the reason that Chambers - and others - backed Letby.

That's common in a lot of hospitals.
Doctors take precedence.
They worked for it and i have no problem with it.
That a nurse manager took it into account is utterly egregious, however.
He has to be held to account legally and civilly.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I've said this before on this site but I think the reason that prisoners don't *have* to appear in court for their sentencing is because they're already locked up and the court / judge doesn't need them to be there to answer to questions put to them or suchlike.

It costs a lot of money to arrange the transport and security services and every time a prisoner is moved from A to B some form of risk is created in many different ways.

So, I think when it comes to 'human rights' it's probably a prisoner's human right to demand to be present for their own sentencing as opposed to the other way around if you see what I mean. I wonder what percentage of 'lifers' who've already been found guilty do attend their sentencing?

That's my understanding of it. I could have got it wrong.

 

[Dotta]

"NHS England has asked local leaders to “ensure” processes are in place to properly protect whistleblowers, and to block directors who have been deemed unfit, following Lucy Letby’s conviction for murdering seven babies despite attempts to raise concerns."

NHSE reminds trusts not to appoint unfit directors, in wake of Letby conviction

NHS England has asked local leaders to "ensure" processes are in place to properly protect whistleblowers, and to block directors who have been deemed unfit, following Lucy Letby's conviction for murdering seven babies despite attempts to raise concerns.

www.hsj.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

"Lucy Letby's life in prison will be defined by suicide checks every five minutes, a target on her back and therapists trying to work out why on earth she did it."​

Lucy Letby will have target on back in prison, says DR ANTHONY DANIELS

DR ANTHONY DANIELS: Shortly after Grantham Hospital nurse Beverley Allitt was sent to prison in 1993 for killing four babies, I was asked to assess a nurse in the hospital in which I worked.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

Thanks for sharing this.

5 min suicide watch. Also I wonder about being marked. I suppose she will be but then maybe a lot of the women banged up alongside her have done really horrific things to children too? I wonder how they decide if they're better / worse offenders.

Jeez Allit looks so young and like she doesn't have a care in the world, cheerful, and like the kid who lives next door. Rose West looks like a kindly lady, no wonder she was able to lure the young women to her home on the pretence of looking out for them.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,
Just a quick reminder. Please do not bring up unapproved sources. Even if you say how wrong the source is we still do not want these sources mentioned. It gives the source publicity to spread their misinformation
Thanks,
Tricia

 

[Honeybirdette]

remember that morning when there was a media blackout, no journalists were tweeting anything at all and a few of us wondered if it meant it was a hung jury… I just looked back and that was august 10th. The day the second partial verdicts came in and the day that letby has refused to come into the dock since.
Do you think that’s what the delay was all about ?
Just thinking out loud… I am really wanting to hear from those that attended court when the partial verdicts happened !! So much I want to ask them!

 

[KathPlumber]

I've been wondering. Did LL set out on her career with good intentions?
I wonder if she was inadvertently negligent over one infant (maybe towards the start of her career), and rather than speak up and admit her mistake, she panicked and could see her career and reputation going down the pan so kept quiet.
But then when she may have experienced sympathy and attention etc over the loss of a baby, she experienced an unexpected thrill? This could have been a trigger for her?
Gave her a sense of power, which she may not have experienced before to that degree.

This

Regarding Tony Chambers I do wonder if being a nurse himself played any part in which side he took during the grievance process

This!

 

[KathPlumber]

Susan Ogilvy (?) was interviewed on a radio 4 news programme this week.
Hope I have the name correct - it's the woman who took over from Chambers and then started litigation for constructive dismissal.

Anyway, she said that there was a very real divide at Countess between nurses and doctors and that she felt it was one part of the reason that Chambers - and others - backed Letby.

So interesting!!

 

[Charlot123]

Why Did Lucy Letby, A UK Nurse, Murder Babies? Investigators List Motives

Nurse Lucy Letby's conviction on Friday for murdering seven babies and attempting to kill six others makes her one of the UK's worst medical serial killers. Her youngest victim was just one-day old.

www.ndtv.com

19 Aug 2023

Here are the probable motives that the investigators mentioned during Lucy Letby's trial:

She Enjoyed 'Playing God'

Lucy Letby's final victims were two triplet boys, referred to in court as babies O and P. Child O died shortly after Letby returned from a holiday in Ibiza in June 2016, while child P died a day after their sibling.

During the trial, prosecutors said by that time Letby was "completely out of control", adding that "she was in effect playing God".

[..]

She Enjoyed Hurting The Babies

Letby was arrested and released twice. On her third arrest in 2020, she was formally charged and held in custody.

During searches at her home, police found hospital paperwork and a handwritten note on which Letby had written: "I am evil, I did this."

[..]

She Wanted The Attention Of An Anonymous Doctor

Prosecutors alleged that Letby was having a secret relationship with a married doctor at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

He was one of the doctors who would be contacted when babies rapidly deteriorated, which was thought to be a crucial aspect of their relationship. It was implied that she hurt them to receive his "personal attention", but Letby disagreed.

[..]

She Wasn't 'Good Enough

The jurors were presented with several notes written by Lucy Letby, one of which said, "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them. On another note, she wrote, "I will never have children or marry. I will never know what it's like to have a family."

Boredom

Lucy Letby was a band 5 nurse, meaning that she had the skills and training to tend to the sickest babies in the neonatal unit. At the trial, she agreed that she sometimes found work less stimulating when she was assigned to babies who did not need as much medical attention.

[..]

"Lucy Letby sought to deceive her colleagues and pass off the harm she caused as nothing more than a worsening of each baby's existing vulnerability. In her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk, fluids - or medication like insulin - would become lethal. She perverted her learning and weaponised her craft to inflict harm, grief, and death," said Pascale Jones of the CPS.

"Time and again, she harmed babies, in an environment which should have been safe for them and their families. Her attacks were a complete betrayal of the trust placed in her," he said.

- The doctor part is very complex. JMO: I suspect that LL could stealthily act out and kill, triggered by own suppressed anger, and that anger was mostly caused by the events on the unit. IMHO:

Outwardly, LL was trying her best to come across as nice as caring. However, some people have intuition, and I would not be surprised if certain peers viewed her as "unlikable". If so, any argument, critical remark, or wrong gaze could make her act out. My deepest suspicion is that Lucy was more triggered by the events inside the unit than in her external life. In other words, a bad date with a non-medical guy might have not triggered her to kill. But any remark from a peer nurse or any critical word from a doctor might have pushed her overboard. The NICU became her microcosm, and she was controlling it by the killings. The trouble is, she spent a lot of time inside the hospital.

Dr. A, who sincerely admired Lucy, could have occasionally had tempering effect on her killing instincts, and sometimes, the opposite. If Lucy was jealous of him flirting with someone else, she could have escalated. At the times when he would express admiration and text that he'd trust her with own kids, she'd probably calm down and be less murderous. In general, Dr. A was more the symptom of her vision getting more and more tunnel, narrowing to NICU. What I don't know is how the unit became her universe. It could have started as her wish to make more money and pick more shifts, and then buying a house next to it, and then finding a BF there. It would be interesting to see how narrow was Lucy's life when she lived at home, how insecure she felt in the big world, and whether her being the face of the unit during their fundraising campaign made her choose it as "the place where I am finally valued".

 

[sceawian]

In all the evidence discussed about the whole case, there has been no mention of LL's medical records - even just to say - nothing unusual. It would help to know if she had ever been prescribed any medication at the time of the killings. I still had this vague theory she may have had an abortion or miscarriage (particularly re her bedside reading material) and psychosis after a child dying is known about. Some anti depressants have strange effects on people too. Presumably, though they would have looked at her medical records and know if she had had an abortion or miscarriage.

But if she had to keep it secret (due to the alleged affair? or to keep it from her parents) it could have unhinged her dealing with other people's babies every day. Assuming it only started in 2015.

It's the only psychiatric cause I can think of that would trigger someone to start doing this. There hadn't been such high rates before.

Psychiatric disorders following fetal death: a population-based cohort study

Objectives Women have increased risks of severe mental disorders after childbirth and death of a child, but it remains unclear whether this association also applies to fetal loss and, if so, to which extent. We studied the risk of any inpatient or outpatient psychiatric treatment during the time...

bmjopen.bmj.com

https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/after-birth/your-mental-health/postpartum-psychosis

Apologies if I just missed it, but one extra tidbit I didn't see mentioned is that she said that the medication she was taking for hypothyroidism "sometimes made her grumpy", texting one friend 'everyone peeing me off.'

Lucy Letby: Church-goer dubbed 'The Innocent One' by friends

With toys in her bedroom, doting parents and the nickname from friends 'The Innocent One', no one could have thought Lucy Letby was Britain's worst ever serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LadyL]

dbm - found my answer