GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[cottonweaver]

I think her friend Dawn was interviewed 3 months into the trial so by that time she would of heard a great deal of evidence by then but she’s clearly in denial big time.
The thing with this utterly abhorrent case is that it WILL happen again, it may not be for years or even decades but it will in some form or another by someone.
I am heartily sick of “ lessons will be learned “ because they never are. This simply cannot be allowed to happen again and the ripple effects will go on and on.
This case must be the tipping point for accountability. You simply cannot be allowed to resign and saunter off to France with a nice big pension pot. All the management surrounding this case and how it was fudged, covered up and enabled need to face criminal proceedings, enough has to be enough now.
JMO.

read this related article yesterday ( it's not about medical murders but negligence scandals)

'Dr Kirkup said cover-ups, toothless regulators and the absence of proper scrutiny of maternity outcomes meant picking the next scandal was like 'finding a needle in a haystack'.

He said an accountability law was needed to put a duty on public bodies to tackle, rather than conceal, potential issues. Coroners should also be given jurisdiction over stillbirths, allowing failures to be fully investigated, he added.

Dr Kirkup led the inquiry into East Kent maternity services last year and was involved in both the Hillsborough and Jimmy Savile investigations'

Avoidable baby deaths are 'a badge of shame' on the NHS

Bill Kirkup (pictured) said avoidable deaths were 'a badge of shame' but would continue without urgent change.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

The thing with this utterly abhorrent case is that it WILL happen again, it may not be for years or even decades but it will in some form or another by someone.

There's always the chance some weirdo may see her as someone to emulate and one-up.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I don’t find anything strange about the house she bought. Generally, but not always, people who buy flats are doing so because they can’t afford a house. It was reported that her parents helped her get on the property ladder, so it makes sense why she could afford it. A quiet, safe area, in close proximity to the workplace, an idea purchase for someone in their mid 20s to be honest. Sounds like she’d need at least one spare room to put her mum and dad up in considering they lived far away.

I do however get a strange feeling about her childhood. The fact the dad was threatening the consultants and on first name terms with the CEO. The fact Letby was infatuated with a man in his 40s who she knew was out of reach. There’s a bit of a daddy issues vibe. The childish bedroom, the comfort items in court. Her “idolising” the nurses who cared for her when she was a baby and insisting throughout that she would follow the same career path, determined to work with children.

I feel certain that something has happened in childhood that triggered all this. Someone can’t have an “idyllic upbringing” and then just happen to be one of the worst serial killers in history. She’s experienced something or witnessed something terrible during her formative years in my opinion.

I'm not so sure about this. I do agree on the house, though. It's not a usual purchase for a woman of her age but it does make sense given her job, workplace and what she's expressed as to what she hoped to achieve in life.

It's not usual for a parent to do that sort of thing for their grown child but it's not totally bizarre. It's been speculated on here (and deleted) that she may have a certain neuro-divergent qualities about her and having a parent give support and speak up when she can't is not unusual, IMEx.

 

[kittythehare]

There's always the chance some weirdo may see her as someone to emulate and one-up.

there is no shortage of bullying and cruelty in the world right now.
it's endemic, actually IMO

 

[VioletLilac]

Ben Field is another who seems to have had a normal upbringing

 

[VioletLilac]

I'm just worried that this govt will use it to push their own privatisation agenda. They have no integrity.

Good point. This has happened in the US too though, so it shouldn't be used as an excuse to privatise.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, I think it's that... the dissonance between how people perceive a 'monster' ought to be (ie the horror films) and how the reality in this case has been.

Having said that, I believe it was the police detective who declared her 'beige' in one word. I'm a little surprised by that as obviously we know she was deeply disturbed, writing post it notes, hoarding paperwork, and stalking parents. So she had her demonic side.

I would like to know what *all* her online searches were and what sort of things she did and movies she watched etc. Maybe that's the bit that's totally 'beige' like literally nothing weird or quirky to see here?

She's being described as "beige" but that is not the impression I get of her at all. It's lazy journalism as they are just looking at the police pics of her home and basing their opinions on not a lot else. Like someone's home is their entire personality.

Lucy Letby is not the boring workaholic she's being presented as. She had a very active social life and was not unpopular. Indeed, she was well liked.

This is what makes her so very disturbing, imo.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Did you also read the times article where it said they were going to offer her a transfer to Alder Hay and also fund a masters degree or higher nurse education for her due to her being bullied ?

I couldn’t believe my eyes…

WTF???

 

[Marantz4250b]

I often wonder whether that’s why they were searching her garden and gutters: looking for a second phone or other devices.

There is most likely a set procedure for searching suspects homes in the cases of serious crimes like murder.

Perhaps this one was more intense as medical things, especially lethal drugs, are very easy to hide. It was suggested at her initial court appearances that she may try to harm herself so drugs would definitely be something they'd be looking for.

 

[Lola68]

The Guardian is reporting that detectives have identified 30 babies who suffered suspicious incidents at 2 hospitals - LL on duty for all. No deaths thankfully, but these are in addition to 17 covered in the court case.

Lucy Letby may have harmed dozens more babies, police fear

Exclusive: Officers investigating ‘suspicious’ incidents at Countess of Chester and Liverpool women’s hospitals

www.theguardian.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

The detailed timeline and Tony Chambers' "detailed" reply lacked the one detail I was specifically looking for.
Did Letby's married friend-but-not-boyfriend attend any of the senior executive meetings post June 2016? Did this senior registrar put in a good word for his friend-but-not-girlfriend? Dr. NoName needs to have his texts sent to Letby during the hospital's internal investigation of baby deaths reviewed for conflict of interest, disclosure of confidential information, professional impropriety leading to serious harm and death of patients. GMC = Medical Board where dereliction of professional duty, if not gross negligence, are reported, right?

Revealed: How trust execs resisted concerns over Letby

Trust bosses questioned the integrity of doctors who first raised concerns about a nurse who has now been convicted of murdering seven babies, and forced the medics to apologise to her, an HSJ investigation has established.

www.hsj.co.uk

From the article:
"The sources claimed the consultants were told there would be consequences if they refused to work with Letby, as it could leave them open to a GMC referral."

Sounds like extortion to me. MOO.

The whole thing is deeply bizarre.

I suggested that part of the reason that he had his name anonymised was so as to not prejudice any future legal proceedings. I still think I may be correct on that as the aftermath is going to run for years and years. He may well have disciplinary hearings which have been postponed until the resolution of this trial.

 

[Dotta]

People outside the court might get incited as well. There could even be violence. The more I think about it, the better I think it will be if she's not there. It doesn't change how she'll serve her sentence for the rest of her days.

You think of everything haha
You should work in Security

 

[Marantz4250b]

It will never happen.
This chapter of her life is finished.

I wonder
Did she ever ask for help with her mental problems?

Or is it a taboo for some peope to seek assistance?

I am totally sure that she doesn't believe that she has any mental health issues whatsoever.

If not totally oblivious to it then she might think that she's "a bit different to other people" but won't see it as anything particularly significa

 

[ShireChe]

DBM

 

[Stella123]

In all the evidence discussed about the whole case, there has been no mention of LL's medical records - even just to say - nothing unusual. It would help to know if she had ever been prescribed any medication at the time of the killings. I still had this vague theory she may have had an abortion or miscarriage (particularly re her bedside reading material) and psychosis after a child dying is known about. Some anti depressants have strange effects on people too. Presumably, though they would have looked at her medical records and know if she had had an abortion or miscarriage.

But if she had to keep it secret (due to the alleged affair? or to keep it from her parents) it could have unhinged her dealing with other people's babies every day. Assuming it only started in 2015.

It's the only psychiatric cause I can think of that would trigger someone to start doing this. There hadn't been such high rates before.

Psychiatric disorders following fetal death: a population-based cohort study

Objectives Women have increased risks of severe mental disorders after childbirth and death of a child, but it remains unclear whether this association also applies to fetal loss and, if so, to which extent. We studied the risk of any inpatient or outpatient psychiatric treatment during the time...

bmjopen.bmj.com

https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/after-birth/your-mental-health/postpartum-psychosis

 

[Marantz4250b]

It’s looking that way Dotta … I suspect it will get very ugly indeed.
JMO

I agree.

Ultimately, though, nothing will be done. Nothing will change. The people who enabled her rampage will go unpunished and normal service will resume.

The usual suspects will declare that "lessons will be learned" which will be a total lie. And they know it as a total lie as soon as they decide to say it.

 

[iamshadow21]

She's being described as "beige" but that is not the impression I get of her at all. It's lazy journalism as they are just looking at the police pics of her home and basing their opinions on not a lot else. Like someone's home is their entire personality.

Lucy Letby is not the boring workaholic she's being presented as. She had a very active social life and was not unpopular. Indeed, she was well liked.

This is what makes her so very disturbing, imo.

It wasn't the reporters who described her that way - it was the DCI who studied her for six years.

Lucy Letby, the ‘beige’ and ‘average’ nurse who turned into a baby killer

Her childhood seemed idyllic and she cried at reminders of her home life, but she was, the prosecutor said, ‘cruel and relentless’

www.theguardian.com

DCI Nicola Evans, who spent six years analysing Letby as part of the police investigation, described her in one word: “Beige.”

“There isn’t anything outstanding or outrageous that we found out about her as a person,” Evans said. “She was an average nurse. She was what you would say is a normal twentysomething-year-old … but clearly there was another side of that that nobody saw and that we have unravelled during this investigation.”

 

[Marantz4250b]

Has anyone else noticed when the trust stopped paying Letby? It was when she was charged on the 10th November 2020. She was receiving full pay for 2 years despite being arrested twice for serial murder during that time. The trust’s decision making just gets odder and odder.

They don't have a choice. They have to adhere to her contract of employment.

Bottom line is that it was their decision not to allow her to work.

Harsh but what else could be done?

 

[Seattle1]

​

This was brought over from last thread---​

was posted by Tortoise:

​

​

It blows my mind to see it in writing that there were 13 deaths total and LL was on duty for all 13.

I say that because one of the major arguments made by LL's supporter's was ------>>> " There were 13 total deaths, why weren't those shown on the staffing grid? That would prove her innocence ."

But now we learn that she was actually on duty for all of them.

I have posted my theory about this previously---that perhaps LL was involved with ALL of those deaths, but the others had more reasonable doubts----more health issues in babies, less evidence to connect LL because no notes showing she fed or gave them treatments at certain key times? And if they had given the jury 13 murder cases, but half didn't have adequate solid evidence, they could lose all the cases.

Without autopsies or toxicology results-- the infant deaths were not treated as suspicious or homicides until long after LL's arrest. I'm so sorry for the other baby murders that could not pass the hurdle for a conviction.

Now that UK news and analysts are allowed to discuss the case, it's shocking to learn the lack of direct evidence for the murders, and that LL was arrested twice and released, and not until the third arrest were charges filed and the case moved forward! I hope all were finally relieved and comforted that she'd been incarcerated for more than a thousand days pending trial.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Honestly, I won't make much of it, except for it was probably a good reason to purchase the house below the market value.

What makes you think it was below market value?