GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #12

[mrazda71]

SH: "NO, I heard stomping down the stairs, cos that's what made me think that Becky had left in a mood (looking) cos I said to Anjie cos I said 'door slammed I wasn't sure if that was the wind, I took it because there was like quite STOMP, STOMP, STOMP down the stairs I assumed, you know, she was in a bit of one of her tantrums'." (laughing)

in her mind she has determined why the slam was definitely Becky leaving before thinking 'was that the wind?' It isn't possible.

Now, if someone had said to her later on, are you sure it was Becky going out, could it have just been the wind?, that would be different. she would say no it wasn't because....xyz. But, she has put her multiple thoughts about the noise as if they occurred at the time she heard it slamming.

The other thing is, if she thought at the time it was the wind slamming the door, she would have to have also had this thought 'did we leave the door open when we came in, or did Nathan go out and leave the door open? I'd better go and check in case he has been locked out by the door slamming shut'

I don't know if I've put across what it's in my head well enough ... I was meaning

Maybe when Shauna says about the wind, she's not suggesting the wind slammed a door shut all by itself.

I'm saying maybe Shauna was saying that she heard Becky stomp downstairs and maybe Becky slammed the front door or maybe as Becky closed the door but the wind made it sound like a slam.

 

[edgedweller]

I still can't understand why he didn't say there was a quarrel which escalated and he lost control. We've been told that Becky could be rude, so it could have been a plausible story.

Thinking about the cheque. I wonder if he could have taken it from her and made some sort of demand, saying "You won't get this cheque back unless you ... "

I read somewhere that the cheque was from Becky's nan (DG's or TW's mum?) and that she had to write her a new one. I guess it was assumed that Becky had lost it (another reason to paint her as a grumpy irresponsible teen?).


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[PrimeSuspect]

When police interviewed Nathan Matthews in the Becky Watts missing person inquiry he gave a similar account to his girlfriend.

Matthews said he and Shauna Hoare visited the home of his step-sister Becky, 16, in Crown Hill on February 19.

He said it appeared that Becky had gone out because he heard the front door slam.

Matthews said he and Hoare went to his mum Anjie's home knowing she would be at a hospital appointment.
He said they were left a key to the house under a recycling box.

Matthews told police: "We turned up. I sat on the sofa and put CBeebies on.

"Shauna went to the kitchen and pinched a *advertiser censored*.

"She then went into the garden.
"Half an hour later she came back in.

"Obviously I heard the door slam. Obviously I didn't think anything of it. Obviously Shauna came back in and sat on the sofa. Obviously I was on my phone."

Matthews recounted how his mum and gran returned from the hospital appointment before his gran and granddad went off.

He said he and Hoare stayed at his mum's home until after 7pm,

He said: "One other thing, obviously. We heard music."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...-told-police/story-27967769-detail/story.html

Hmmm. Was NM interviewed the same day as SH, the 26 Feb?

Edit: Just realized in this excerpt he doesn't exactly say where he was when he heard the door slam. So did he say he was in the kitchen with SH to Anjie or to the police?

 

[Insp.Dots]

I still can't understand why he didn't say there was a quarrel which escalated and he lost control. We've been told that Becky could be rude, so it could have been a plausible story.

Thinking about the cheque. I wonder if he could have taken it from her and made some sort of demand, saying "You won't get this cheque back unless you ... "

Really can't help thinking that the Motive is somehow attached to this 'missing cheque'.

 

[edgedweller]

I don't know how to quote from the last thread so ...

Re wind - I wondered if Shauna was thinking not was that the wind making a door bang on its own but maybe if she's telling the truth - she indeed thought she heard becky stomp downstairs and then maybe it was the wind making the door slam as opposed to Becky purposefully slamming it.
If my daughter has her window open it always sounds like she's slamming her door ...

Re the £100 cheque - I think Nathan took it in an act of passive aggression ... just spite, just so Becky couldn't cash/bank it. I dont believe it was taken as a bargaining tool just to cause annoyance to Becky.

Re Nathan's story - IF his story isn't true then I just can't work out why. I dont really believe at this point that the motive was sexual and the reason I think some are still thinking it was is because that's what we were initially lead to believe and first impression can last.

I wonder if Becky had been an unattractive plain girl whether it would still be assumed it was sexual. Her being very pretty clouds the issue in some ways, IMO. Although of course sexual predators aren't usually that fussy.


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[mrazda71]

Really can't help thinking that the Motive is somehow attached to this 'missing cheque'.

As we've only recently been made aware of this cheque, can I ask you please, what did you think was the motive before?

 

[Tortoise]

I don't know if I've put across what it's in my head well enough ... I was meaning

Maybe when Shauna says about the wind, she's not suggesting the wind slammed a door shut all by itself.

I'm saying maybe Shauna was saying that she heard Becky stomp downstairs and maybe Becky slammed the front door or maybe as Becky closed the door but the wind made it sound like a slam.

but then she would end up with the conclusion that either Becky slammed it or the wind did, but she didn't, she took it Becky slammed the door.

 

[Tortoise]

When police interviewed Nathan Matthews in the Becky Watts missing person inquiry he gave a similar account to his girlfriend.

Matthews said he and Shauna Hoare visited the home of his step-sister Becky, 16, in Crown Hill on February 19.

He said it appeared that Becky had gone out because he heard the front door slam.

Matthews said he and Hoare went to his mum Anjie's home knowing she would be at a hospital appointment.
He said they were left a key to the house under a recycling box.

Matthews told police: "We turned up. I sat on the sofa and put CBeebies on.

"Shauna went to the kitchen and pinched a *advertiser censored*.

"She then went into the garden.
"Half an hour later she came back in.

"Obviously I heard the door slam. Obviously I didn't think anything of it. Obviously Shauna came back in and sat on the sofa. Obviously I was on my phone."

Matthews recounted how his mum and gran returned from the hospital appointment before his gran and granddad went off.

He said he and Hoare stayed at his mum's home until after 7pm,

He said: "One other thing, obviously. We heard music."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...-told-police/story-27967769-detail/story.html

Hmmm. Was NM interviewed the same day as SH, the 26 Feb?

Edit: Just realized in this excerpt he doesn't exactly say where he was when he heard the door slam.

I think he does say 'obviously' when he's lying because it's obviously not obvious

 

[Insp.Dots]

Also, can anyone remember what sentence Maxine Carr got? I don't know why but this case keeps reminding me of them, I think it's the potential "innocent girlfriend" aspect, and the bath.

3 and a half years

 

[Insp.Dots]

As we've only recently been made aware of this cheque, can I ask you please, what did you think was the motive before?

I didn't really think of one, other than perhaps jealousy. IMO the Kidnap was a made up excuse, I think a row or argument more likely. NM was miffed at the way his Mum was being treated, but IF he had stolen BW's cheque this adds a whole new explanation. MOO FWIW

 

[Clio]

Edit: Just realized in this excerpt he doesn't exactly say where he was when he heard the door slam. So did he say he was in the kitchen with SH to Anjie or to the police?

This is what NM said in court the other day

When his mum Anjie returned, Matthews said he made the "major mistake" of claiming he was in the kitchen when he heard the front door slam.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28078299-detail/story.html#ixzz3qG3ervVR

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I wonder if Becky had been an unattractive plain girl whether it would still be assumed it was sexual. Her being very pretty clouds the issue in some ways, IMO. Although of course sexual predators aren't usually that fussy.


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True, for that reason and because of the texts between NM and SH about kidnapping teenage girls. Even if SH says it was all in jest, it ties in with a sexual motive, to the police anyway.

 

[Cherwell]

Re the £100 cheque - I think Nathan took it in an act of passive aggression ... just spite, just so Becky couldn't cash/bank it. I dont believe it was taken as a bargaining tool just to cause annoyance to Becky.

No, well, we can only talk of possibilities. I wasn't suggesting it was simply to annoy her, more that it could have been a kind of blackmail or bribe to get her to do something, or not do something.

I do think that it's possible that a row broke out and he lost control and Becky ended up dead. But why if that were true make up the kidnap plan? Nathan could still have said Shauna was outside not seeing or hearing anything and he then panicked and put her in the boot etc I don't think it makes him look any better or worse in anyone's eyes in fact, the kidnap story makes it worse! If they'd been bickering and he accidently killed her then panicked and disposed of her body it's not as bad as going there with a plan to kidnap her which at some point you might be expected to cause her some harm if not kill her ...

Exactly. I find it very puzzling.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is what NM said in court the other day



http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28078299-detail/story.html#ixzz3qG3ervVR

I remember this, but when did he make the mistake and to whom did he say it? Was he recounting the conversation with AG to them or did he say it to them as he own account of what he heard and where he was? Hope that makes sense.

What I'm trying to say I think, lol, if NM has already said he was in the kitchen with SH to AG and/or DG, he will repeat it to the police because there were witnesses. I'm confusing myself here, not sure it makes a difference.

EDIT: OK, so he made the mistake telling AG, not the police. Hmmmm, if he didn't repeat to the police then they got the story from AG. So SH is either telling the truth or she's setting the record straight.

Sorry for the mumbo jumbo, it's nearly 4 am, I'm overtired.

 

[skibaboo]

Marking my spot. I hope the prosecution questions Shauna tomorrow. So many questions I would like clear answers to!

 

[edgedweller]

3 and a half years

Maxine Carr had a cast iron alibi though - she was in Grimsby when Huntley killed Holly and Jessica. She did lie for him, thinking he would never do such a thing.
Btw, is there a trial transcript online for Ian Huntley's trial?


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[Cherwell]

Here's a video interview from April with Becky's maternal grandmother. I haven't seen this before, but apologies if it's already been posted. She talks fondly of Becky and gives a candid picture of her. She is quite composed, but at one point calls her 'Tanya' by mistake, Tanya of course being her own daughter and Becky's mother.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2015/apr/18/becky-watts-murder-grandmother-video

 

[cottonweaver]

True, for that reason and because of the texts between NM and SH about kidnapping teenage girls. Even if SH says it was all in jest, it ties in with a sexual motive, to the police anyway.

Yes and they have this other charges made against him alone( voyeurism & sexual assault) and the indecent images of a child for the pair.

Naturally I have only just found out about those, from this thread.
(Prior to this thread I didn't have any real thoughts as to motive, I didn't read all the news articles on it - a domestic violence angle is all I thought complicated by sibling rivalry perhaps. )
After reading the thread and starting to back track on the articles ( before I heard about the extra charges) I thought the police know best and they are seeing this as sexually motivated. When they say that it doesn't necessarily mean the perp wants to have sex with the victim though. (There can simply be a sexual side to the violence/attack.)

On reading more it seemed clear to me he has some fixed sexual compulsions and his "pretty, petite teen" fetish and addiction to *advertiser censored* ( esp as it fitted the object of his fantasies) and a step-sister he has known that long, who was also fitting that bill ( esp when she was very slim through anorexia) may have been the object of long held dark fantasy for him which he can't admit too. For me, combine this with a savage treatment of the body -against a family member even when not close- I thought this man is capable of something quite twisted plus must have psychopathic tendencies. ( To now hear the path say how meticulously that was carried out, it confirms both his detachment and possibly some level of satisfaction in that task.)

Anyway, I am still open to other ideas, and I do think it could be possibly something simpler- a row that got out of hand etc, I think the cheque thing is really interesting, but then I come back to the purchase of two stun guns in advance in Dec/Jan. This man was not AFAIK just a collector of weapons etc like some young men are. (For me it fits more with his desire to incapacitate someone and planning and his fantasy dark side.)
The fact that SH and NM's reln. was no holds barred re. other women ( even if just compliant ) and the *advertiser censored* was a in-joke twixt them makes me think he could even have discussed his sexual feelings towards BW with SH.
However I think they both knew that BW would never have a 3some with them even if they asked her so I don't necessarily believe this is as simple as a sexual offer to Becky that went wrong. ( Anyway that's my cod psychology contribution! )

TBH I don't know what the motive is and it's good to explore all the simpler options too.

Whatever it is NM says, think the opposite, so yes could be a cheque or £ issues that spark, could be just as Cherwell said a row that gets out of hand but bizarrely he cannot admit to that and has to say "I did it for my mum" almost! Def need AG on the stand, she is crucial. That would rattle him on a deep level. They have exchanged a smile even recently, during trial haven't they.)

PS I would have expected more of a history of violence from this guy to come out ( beyond SH's accounts)

 

[Gigi-G]

I still can't understand why he didn't say there was a quarrel which escalated and he lost control. We've been told that Becky could be rude, so it could have been a plausible story.

Thinking about the cheque. I wonder if he could have taken it from her and made some sort of demand, saying "You won't get this cheque back unless you ... "

Can someone remind me. I'm sure I recall saying that NM borrowed £100 from BW.
Now its widely said that money is the route of all evil. Did BW turn on him. Or tease him Cuz he had to borrow from a 'child' ?
Moooc.

 

[ColourPurple]

Can someone remind me. I'm sure I recall saying that NM borrowed £100 from BW.
Now its widely said that money is the route of all evil. Did BW turn on him. Or tease him Cuz he had to borrow from a 'child' ?
Moooc.

I think rather than her lending him money, according to Becky's friend Courtney it was a case of him saying he'd buy things off her, phones, tablets then not paying up. Courntney was encouraging Becky to ask him for it and said she'd already sent texts asking and added kisses so he'd take it as a friendly request.