GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[YidArmyRach]

I do keep thinking of where their poor child was when all this was going on.

She was clearly used to not being able to move around much, or get into many of the rooms, so hopefully she wouldn't have found it very unusual or even noticed anything. Although I can't imagine anything other than a very stressful environment with that going on.

 

[Clio]

I thought the last threesome was 2014 but they'd had more before then.

This is what the unnamed woman said. Witness did admit it might have been more than twice but not as many times as 10-15. I don't recall any mention of other people participating in threesomes but I may have missed it

The woman told jurors she became involved with the liaisons with the defendants after splitting with her boyfriend.
"At the beginning of 2014. A threesome, two occasions I think, over a month or two," she said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34571896

 

[Tortoise]

Asleep or watching Cbeebies probably.

the cycle of neglect repeats itself. and possibly something worse than neglect.

 

[ColourPurple]

I was just thinking, with NM working evenings as a take away delivery driver... IF SH wasn't involved... it would have made much more sense for him to have kept Becky's body in the boot and put it somewhere (maybe that wooded area he was going to take her to) during the evening when it was dark, when SH wouldn't find it unusual for him to be out in his car working. In the "Shauna is innocent" scenario there was no reason for him to take the body into the house where his innocent girlfriend was.

 

[ColourPurple]

This is what the unnamed woman said. Witness did admit it might have been more than twice but not as many times as 10-15. I don't recall any mention of other people participating in threesomes but I may have missed it



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34571896

Thanks , I must have misremembered

 

[Clio]

I think she probably put the rubber gloves and helped. There was layer after layer after layer, it would have took ages... so many layers they had to go and replenish stocks.

If that was true, I think there'd be more DNA evidence in the shed. Don't get me wrong, I think, at the very least, she knew. I think she may even been the main planner in the cover story. But I am not convinced that she actually got her hands dirty so to speak.

 

[Tortoise]

a little bit more in this round up of the morning -

"It is grim evidence and it will stay with us for some time. It is not the actions of a rational man.
"He was hardly rational in that first interview with the police - that bizarre account and a rant about being a metrosexual and a Neanderthal.

---------


"He is criticised for not showing sorrow, for not looking at the family when he was giving his evidence," Mr Vaitilingam said. "You might say that he was hanging his head in shame for the terrible things he has done, in front of his own mother, in front of the man at whose wedding he was best man.
"Did he ever really intend to kill Becky and take her away from those two people? Did he mean to do it?"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-stepbrother-6781710

 

[ColourPurple]

Also, we've spoke of the bathroom being DNA free - it must also have been free of salt and cat litter. They did an amazing clean up job considering that must have been the first bit of cleaning that was done in their house for years.

I did notice there was a bag of what looked like cat litter at the top of the stairs outside the bathroom, which is a strange place for it to be when the litter tray was downstairs by the front door.

 

[Tortoise]

I was just thinking, with NM working evenings as a take away delivery driver... IF SH wasn't involved... it would have made much more sense for him to have kept Becky's body in the boot and put it somewhere (maybe that wooded area he was going to take her to) during the evening when it was dark, when SH wouldn't find it unusual for him to be out in his car working. In the "Shauna is innocent" scenario there was no reason for him to take the body into the house where his innocent girlfriend was.

exactly true. he is paranoid, was paranoid and meticulous. He wouldn't have risked SH finding out, he would have found another way, unless she already knew.

 

[pappa rob]

So let me get this straight, NM has sexual fantasy's about all pretty 16ish young women except his Stepsister? Well maybe but I highly doubt it. A consistent *advertiser censored* viewer who has in the past watched rape video's of what I'd call a minor and that doesn't mean anything. Someone who takes his wife who's not in on the deed to kidnap his Stepsister saying she would of stopped him if she knew about it. How about SH who's so clueless as to not see what's going on about her. You can tell by her taped interviews she not stupid, yet she doesn't question any of the BS going on around her. Now as I see it NM went there to remove his Stepsister forcibly from her home, I call that kidnapping even if he went there to scare her while doing it, which I highly doubt was the reason. I'm sure SH knew about it, why would MN take the chance of her finding out and stopping him? Here in the States if SH was in on the kidnapping she'd be complicit in the murder, even if she had nothing to do with the killing. This case really makes me angry that even if it was accidental, did he try CPR, or phone for help. No he show a callus disregard for his Stepsister's life. He went there for his prize and didn't care one way or another what happened to Rebecca. So far all I've heard is a load of horse poop, a lot of empty excuses and other ways to minimize the length of sentence's for their crimes. I apologize for my sarcasm, but it's a lot better than a long string of four letter words.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hi all, I've missed everything, I've skim read the last few pages of posts and am getting that we've been fed sob stories so far today.

Has anyone heard anything today which has swayed their opinion?

 

[YidArmyRach]

I did notice there was a bag of what looked like cat litter at the top of the stairs outside the bathroom, which is a strange place for it to be when the litter tray was downstairs by the front door.

In a house with a cooker in the bathroom and fridge freezer in the hallway, its not unusual at all!

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks to all the posters of the pastes this morning

As i went to do some chores in the break and reflected on what the QC has been saying I thought he has got a very difficult job precisely because there are 10 women ( Please correct me if that's not right) and one man.

No disrespect to the male posters out there but I think this dominance of women on the jury does not help the QC nor SH.

Although they are not meant to be "premature" in their personal conclusions at all I think in their minds ALL of them will have made up minds about NM by now. They will be so focussed on the credibility of SH's story etc. Based on the data out there, a significant number of them will have either suffered DV/been in controlling relationships or know those who have ( male, female, straight , gay - just in case anyone thinks I'm being .......sexist etc ) and I DON"T think that is actually going to help SH, IMO

When I come back on here and see that you are posting how long it takes to wrap a Xmas present etc...... it just makes me laugh, in a good way, in recognition ..... it's true, the jurors will think of these common sense details when they sit down to deliberate.

 

[Tortoise]

So let me get this straight, NM has sexual fantasy's about all pretty 16ish young women except his Stepsister? Well maybe but I highly doubt it. A consistent *advertiser censored* viewer who has in the past watched rape video's of what I'd call a minor and that doesn't mean anything. Someone who takes his wife who's not in on the deed to kidnap his Stepsister saying she would of stopped him if she knew about it. How about SH who's so clueless as to not see what's going on about her. You can tell by her taped interviews she not stupid, yet she doesn't question any of the BS going on around her. Now as I see it NM went there to remove his Stepsister forcibly from her home, I call that kidnapping even if he went there to scare her while doing it, which I highly doubt was the reason. I'm sure SH knew about it, why would MN take the chance of her finding out and stopping him? Here in the States if SH was in on the kidnapping she'd be complicit in the murder, even if she had nothing to do with the killing. This case really makes me angry that even if it was accidental, did he try CPR, or phone for help. No he show a callus disregard for his Stepsister's life. He went there for his prize and didn't care one way or another what happened to Rebecca. So far all I've heard is a load of horse poop, a lot of empty excuses and other ways to minimize the length of sentence's for their crimes. I apologize for my sarcasm, but it's a lot better than a long string of four letter words.

:yeahthat::star1::star1::star1:

 

[ColourPurple]

If that was true, I think there'd be more DNA evidence in the shed. Don't get me wrong, I think, at the very least, she knew. I think she may even been the main planner in the cover story. But I am not convinced that she actually got her hands dirty so to speak.

I know she's arguing DNA is there through transference but her DNA was found inside the knot of one of the blue rubble sacks that were used to package the body, which makes me think she tied the knot. DNA also on the mask and a black binliner that had Becky's clothes in it. I think she helped but was very careful, whereas NM wasn't, he even admitted he bought rubber gloves but didn't always wear there. Why bother buying them then lol

 

[ColourPurple]

In a house with a cooker in the bathroom and fridge freezer in the hallway, its not unusual at all!

Well obviously yes lol but it being up by the bathroom does fit in with the body being dismembered there and cat litter being found on the body

 

[Tortoise]

I know she's arguing DNA is there through transference but her DNA was found inside the knot of one of the blue rubble sacks that were used to package the body, which makes me think she tied the knot. DNA also on the mask and a black binliner that had Becky's clothes in it. I think she helped but was very careful, whereas NM wasn't, he even admitted he bought rubber gloves but didn't always wear there. Why bother buying them then lol

exactly, if she used her own household washing up gloves her DNA wouldn't have been out of place inside them anyway. not that it looks like they did much washing up. bit of bleach and voila.

 

[cottonweaver]

Before it starts again imminently can someone just confirm they had one shared laptop. Was the forensic analysis of that showing anything dubious after 2014 May - or just what the Prosec are calling evidence of *advertiser censored* addiction ( ie. regular but standard stuff?)
Do posters think they viewed together on laptop - I was always assuming that but I'm not clear on facts.

I am sure they can also view *advertiser censored* on the phones. But again no proof they are watching together. How frustrating. Sorry to back track but didn't they share phones as he had poor signal. Was that corroborated?

No need for links just a yes/no!

 

[Alyce]

So let me get this straight, NM has sexual fantasy's about all pretty 16ish young women except his Stepsister? Well maybe but I highly doubt it. A consistent *advertiser censored* viewer who has in the past watched rape video's of what I'd call a minor and that doesn't mean anything. Someone who takes his wife who's not in on the deed to kidnap his Stepsister saying she would of stopped him if she knew about it. How about SH who's so clueless as to not see what's going on about her. You can tell by her taped interviews she not stupid, yet she doesn't question any of the BS going on around her. Now as I see it NM went there to remove his Stepsister forcibly from her home, I call that kidnapping even if he went there to scare her while doing it, which I highly doubt was the reason. I'm sure SH knew about it, why would MN take the chance of her finding out and stopping him? Here in the States if SH was in on the kidnapping she'd be complicit in the murder, even if she had nothing to do with the killing. This case really makes me angry that even if it was accidental, did he try CPR, or phone for help. No he show a callus disregard for his Stepsister's life. He went there for his prize and didn't care one way or another what happened to Rebecca. So far all I've heard is a load of horse poop, a lot of empty excuses and other ways to minimize the length of sentence's for their crimes. I apologize for my sarcasm, but it's a lot better than a long string of four letter words.

BIB Joint Enterprise in the UK - no idea if this is going to be suggested - I would have thought Prosecution had to have said it in his closing, unless Judge is going to say it....but definately SH should be considered complicit, imo of course.

 

[Clio]

exactly true. he is paranoid, was paranoid and meticulous. He wouldn't have risked SH finding out, he would have found another way, unless she already knew.

But when did she know? That's the big question for me. Did they really go to CH that day planning to kidnap Becky? Where were they going to take her? CML - surely not. If they had planned to kidnap Becky for sex what were they going to do? Let her go afterwards and think she'd say nothing. Was the plan always to kill Becky and it just happened too soon? If Becky went missing they must have known they'd be number one suspects. AG knew they were going to CH.

It's the kidnap bit that makes absolutely no sense at all to me. I can sort of get the idea that NM had designs on Becky and SH made herself scare in the garden whilst he "got on with it". It might be he planned to use the stun gun and it didn't work at which point she came in and helped to subdue Becky. Who knows? But I cannot fit this kidnap idea in anywhere. I think the kidnap stuff was all made up afterwards and in doing so, it could backfire on SH bigtime.