GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[ColourPurple]

For what is clear now is that the seeds of that killing were sown long ago, something Becky would have been aware of when she posed uneasily for that picture.
By then she knew what sort of a person her stepbrother was – if not what he was capable of.
Vain and socially inadequate, Matthews bitterly resented Becky’s position in the family household, claiming that she took her father and stepmother – his real mother – for granted.
~~
But perhaps it is the following piece of self-assessment that is closest to the mark: ‘You don’t corner a rat in a corner, because they attack.’
Clearly, in Matthews’ eyes, it was he who was the victim.
~~
In legal argument ahead of the trial it was also claimed that when Becky was just eight, he made an inappropriate pass at her, touching her thigh over her clothes.
Two of her friends complained of similar contact at the same age.
~~
Hoare, who is no longer pregnant, claimed she had no idea what her boyfriend was going to do or had done – even though she was just yards away from him when he killed Becky, then cut up her body.
But prosecutor William Mousley QC rejected this version of events, telling the jury that Hoare was involved from start to finish and had presented herself as ‘confident and calculating’.
‘Again, not a flicker of emotion in the whole time she was in the witness box,’ he said. ‘A very cool, one might say very cold individual.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...isted-soul-Nathan-Matthews.html#ixzz3rGnMVdF1

A well written article, imo. NM and SH are the perpetual victims, not an ounce of common sense or humanity between them. NM felt the world owed him a living and Becky ultimately was going to pay dearly for his own perceived shortcomings and inadequacies. SH jumped on board with NM, enjoying the attention and increasingly sick fantasies. Both compulsive liars who reveled in their duplicity, showing one side to the family and another when alone. These two together created hell on earth!

I didn't realise two of Becky's friends had complained that he'd touched them too. Sounds like he'd been attracted to young girls for a long time.

 

[MissyLDT]

Just watched the short video on this article and DG says NM lied throughout when he was in court, and the stress of having to watch him and not being able to say anything led to DG having a minor heart attack in court.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-blaming-giving-birth-daughter-s-killer.html

The Daily Mail really bugs me. I don't think there is any need to refer to their relationship as bizarre in the headline. They have lost enough. If they don't cling to each other what do they have left? It can't be easy for them living in the house either with the constant reminder but circumstances don't always allow you to just pack up and ship out.

 

[Clio]

Did we ever find out if the verdicts were all unanimous?

I just have visions of them walking into the jury room and being asked "who thinks they're guilty?". All hands go up. Doesn't sound like there was any room for doubt at all!

The verdicts must have been unanimous for them to have been returned so quickly. The judge would have to have given instructions for a majority verdict (and the press would have reported that). In any case the judge wouldn't accept a majority until at least a few days into deliberations.

 

[ColourPurple]

To my fellow Brits (and others) who have contributed to this thread, I just wanted to say that although I haven't posted until now, I have been logging in and reading on a daily basis and Websleuths/this thread has been my first port of call before any other media.

I personally had no doubt SH would be convicted - their story in relation to her level of involvement was pure unadulterated BS from start to finish and I knew the jury would see through it, but I can understand the doubts and concerns. I've had them myself in other cases, but this one, for some reason, I was stone cold certain she would get convicted. I also had a feeling it would be very quick and indeed it was. I don't have the gift of clairvoyance by the way, but it's just sometimes in certain cases you just get that gut feeling of how it's going to go, and this was one of those cases.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who participated on this thread. It's rare to see a British case at the top of 'new posts' on Websleuths ... but you've kept this one front and centre - so thanks to you all!

I was one of those who wasn't sure they had enough to convict SH but cried with what I think was relief when they did. I've never had that reaction at the end of a trial before.

 

[Ironside]

The Daily Mail really bugs me. I don't think there is any need to refer to their relationship as bizarre in the headline. They have lost enough. If they don't cling to each other what do they have left? It can't be easy for them living in the house either with the constant reminder but circumstances don't always allow you to just pack up and ship out.

It is bizarre though. Her son killed his daughter and now he is stating he wants her son dead. That is not a normal situation.

I find it odd how AG was smiling away at NM in court but can sit there listening to him talk about the death penalty about her son.
Seriously odd family dynamics going here and were going on before BW was murdered.

 

[Tortoise]

I didn't realise two of Becky's friends had complained that he'd touched them too. Sounds like he'd been attracted to young girls for a long time.

yes, and I also read yesterday a couple of times, think it was in a police statement after the verdicts, that some of the content stored on their devices was of children younger than 16.

[FONT=open_sans]Mr Mousley said: "Texts and Facebook traffic between them in November and December 2014 was found on one of the phones which revealed a shared interest in teenage, and perhaps sometimes younger, girls and of kidnapping one of them."[/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28154990-detail/story.html#ixzz3rH4knjkD

ETA quote and younger than teenage not just younger than 16!!

[/FONT]

 

[ColourPurple]

It is bizarre though. Her son killed his daughter and now he is stating he wants her son dead. That is not a normal situation.

I find it odd how AG was smiling away at NM in court but can sit there listening to him talk about the death penalty about her son.
Seriously odd family dynamics going here and were going on before BW was murdered.

She's said herself she loves the son she gave birth to but hates the monster he's become.

I think she could be the key to finding out what really happened though. I'm reminded of the Jamie Bulger case where one of the boys who killed him couldn't admit it till police let him see his mother and she told him she would always love him whatever had happened.

 

[ColourPurple]

yes, and I also read yesterday a couple of times, think it was in a police statement after the verdicts, that some of the content stored on their devices was of children younger than 16.

That'll be the child *advertiser censored* charges, I think it was four counts they were both charged with, wasn't it.

 

[BoraBora]

Hi all, new here posting but have read most of the threads. There's one thing really bugging me about this case - apparently it was 21 days before Becky was found (that's what the BBC documentary said). So why didn't NM dispose of the body? He could have initially put the body somewhere straight away. Or, after dismembering he could have weighted down the packages and disposed in a river. The guy wasn't stupid. He was meticulous and thorough, so I don't understand why he didn't do this last part. If he was able to move suitcases at night unspotted, he could easily have driven somewhere himself and disposed. Any thoughts?

 

[Alyce]

The Daily Mail really bugs me. I don't think there is any need to refer to their relationship as bizarre in the headline. They have lost enough. If they don't cling to each other what do they have left? It can't be easy for them living in the house either with the constant reminder but circumstances don't always allow you to just pack up and ship out.

In the BBC programme ( Colour Purple has uploaded the link ) DG says that he wants to stay in the house, because it is last link to Becky. He has her room looking lovely now, just as she would have wanted it, he said.

 

[Clio]

"One of the issues in this case is nobody actually knows precisely what happened inside Crown Hill,"
...
"Mr Courtiour said the lack of evidence in the bathroom of Cotton Mill Lane did lead police to ask whether Becky's dismemberment took place elsewhere."
...
"Mr Courtiour added that he was not able to say whether Hoare was in the room when Becky was killed."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Saw-re...tory-28162563-detail/story.html#ixzz3rH5ZMFTX

 

[Yozzer]

Did we ever find out if the verdicts were all unanimous?

I just have visions of them walking into the jury room and being asked "who thinks they're guilty?". All hands go up. Doesn't sound like there was any room for doubt at all!

I read a comment in the DM from a reader who was once a juror on a trial and when the jury retired to reach their verdict, there was unanimous agreement that the defendant was guilty. However, they were advised to wait at least a couple of hours as the quick decision would lead to the defendant's legal team lodging an appeal. So tea and cakes were consumed at a leisurely pace and two hours later they went back into court and announced their verdict!

 

[Clio]

Sky News ‏@SkyNews · 17m17 minutes ago
#BeckyWatts' best friend talks about Nathan Matthews, accused of her murder, 'graphically described' killing Watts

Includes video from CAB - sorry don't know how to include video here

Ah - here we go

http://news.sky.com/story/1586343/becky-watts-scared-of-stepbrothers-threats

 

[Tortoise]

Hi all, new here posting but have read most of the threads. There's one thing really bugging me about this case - apparently it was 21 days before Becky was found (that's what the BBC documentary said). So why didn't NM dump the body? He could have initially put the body somewhere straight away. Or, after dismembering he could have weighted down the packages and dumped in a river. The guy wasn't stupid. He was meticulous and thorough, so I don't understand why he didn't do this last part. If he was able to move suitcases at night unspotted, he could easily have driven somewhere himself and disposed. Any thoughts?

I think by that stage, the Monday, they had only just got everything packaged and then were forced to flee because the police were on their tails. NM was paranoid about using his own car because they had said they were staying overnight at SH's mum's and if the police were watching their house they would immediately recognise he was there if his car was there.

I had a theory that they couldn't use JI's car also because NM thought he may be seen in the car on their way to move the cases. And that was why he wanted a van, so he could hide in the back. The police would not be looking for JI/KD or stop and search them.

So, I'd say if the police hadn't turned up on 23rd/24th NM would have disposed of the body by himself, and not moved them to the shed.

 

[Alyce]

Hi all, new here posting but have read most of the threads. There's one thing really bugging me about this case - apparently it was 21 days before Becky was found (that's what the BBC documentary said). So why didn't NM dump the body? He could have initially put the body somewhere straight away. Or, after dismembering he could have weighted down the packages and dumped in a river. The guy wasn't stupid. He was meticulous and thorough, so I don't understand why he didn't do this last part. If he was able to move suitcases at night unspotted, he could easily have driven somewhere himself and disposed. Any thoughts?

Hi Bora Bora and :welcome6:

Again, I am having a gggrrr at the reporting. It was not 21 days, it was 11 days later when Becky's body parts were found at Barton Court.
Re why didnt NM put Becky's body elsewhere. Something we have debated on here quite a lot. If he was going to do that, he should have done it immediately.
Once he took the body home, he really didnt have the opportunity, as Becky's disappearance became headline news very quickly and any actions he took after this time could have been checked ( later ) and put him in the frame quite quickly.

However, apart from that, I think he took Becky home for his own, perverted, reasons.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hi all, new here posting but have read most of the threads. There's one thing really bugging me about this case - apparently it was 21 days before Becky was found (that's what the BBC documentary said). So why didn't NM dispose of the body? He could have initially put the body somewhere straight away. Or, after dismembering he could have weighted down the packages and disposed in a river. The guy wasn't stupid. He was meticulous and thorough, so I don't understand why he didn't do this last part. If he was able to move suitcases at night unspotted, he could easily have driven somewhere himself and disposed. Any thoughts?

Welcome, Bora Bora (I would LOVE to go there!!)

It wasn't 21 days. She was killed on the Thursday, reported missing on the Friday, NM had her body removed from his house on, I think, Monday night and then she was found the following Tuesday so it was 12 days.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and it's been mentioned before - as one posted said "why not just let her go to be one with nature" instead of the gruesome and psychotic mess he made both physically and by dragging others into it. I just can't imagine what makes anyone think dismemberment is a good idea when there are far easier ways of disposing of a body. Like you say, he could have left her in the car boot and gone for a quick drive later that night.

 

[ColourPurple]

Hi all, new here posting but have read most of the threads. There's one thing really bugging me about this case - apparently it was 21 days before Becky was found (that's what the BBC documentary said). So why didn't NM dump the body? He could have initially put the body somewhere straight away. Or, after dismembering he could have weighted down the packages and dumped in a river. The guy wasn't stupid. He was meticulous and thorough, so I don't understand why he didn't do this last part. If he was able to move suitcases at night unspotted, he could easily have driven somewhere himself and disposed. Any thoughts?

They were wrong about the 21 days, it was around 12/13 but good question, it makes me wonder if they were still wrapping it right till the night it was moved. He said he planned to drive out to the sea to dispose of the body parts but didnt; get chance. He'd booked 3 weeks of work so maybe he was going to do it then, pretend to go on holiday and dispose of the parts on the way?

What we've questioned before is why even take the body home at all? It was in his boot, he usually worked evenings out and about delivering take aways, he could have left it in the boot then in the wooded area he'd talked about, Becky wasn't reported missing for 24 hours so he could have gone to work as normal that first nigth and left her somewhere she would be found. That he didn't do that makes me think it was always planned to take her to their house, and dead or alive he carried on with the plan.

 

[ChuckieD]

And what's his take on it all?

Just that he was friends with him at school but they fell out (either didn't want to say or couldn't remember what about) and it ended up with NM being filled in by a few of them. He didn't speak to him again. He said he was always very aggressive and a bit of a weirdo. As soon as he heard Becky was missing he knew straight away it was NM because of things he'd said in the past. Nothing we don't already know, to be fair.

Does anybody know which school NM attended just so I can confirm it to myself? If it matches up I might probe the guy a bit more as I'll be working with him in the morning.

 

[ColourPurple]

"One of the issues in this case is nobody actually knows precisely what happened inside Crown Hill,"
...
"Mr Courtiour said the lack of evidence in the bathroom of Cotton Mill Lane did lead police to ask whether Becky's dismemberment took place elsewhere."
...
"Mr Courtiour added that he was not able to say whether Hoare was in the room when Becky was killed."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Saw-re...tory-28162563-detail/story.html#ixzz3rH5ZMFTX

Another thing that made me ponder if there was another cirme scene was that NM asked if they had found any evidence at his home and it was when they said yes that he confessed. Made me think was there another site and he figured OK if they've got evidence at my house I'll confess now and then they'll never find out about the other place...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I have just put my "Sleuth CV" on the new UK discussion page, just introducing myself a bit as we've spent a lot of time "together" lately and have been a great little team!

Feel free to add your own - don't worry, it's not names and addresses or anything, more about current cases, what brought us here, and what kind of cases we tend to be drawn to. See you there hopefully

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Court-Cases-Laws-and-Policies-Outside-the-U-S