GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #16

[Koolkatsandkittens]

“A McDonald's worker today revealed how Wayne Couzens exposed himself to her three weeks before killing Sarah Everard.

The woman said she was working at a drive-thru on the A20 near Swanley in Kent at the start of February when she saw Couzens pulling up by the order hatch with his trousers down.

The staff member - who said she recognised Couzens from the news coverage after he was identified as Miss Everard's killer, told MailOnline: 'The whole has thing left me quite disturbed. He casually pulled up to the serving hatch having ordered his food and I could clearly see that he was naked from below the waist.”

I’ve just seen this on the daily mail. I know they’re not the most reliable source but if this is true I am infuriated. They brushed off the flashing three days before the murder as ‘we hadn’t gotten round to it yet as it was so soon’. But this? They had WEEKS to look at the CCTV and identify him. I am so disgusted

edit: just to clarify the incident was reported to the police

 

[Stella123]

It was premeditated and thought out IMO. The moment he handcuffed her she couldn’t use her phone.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm sure he would have dealt just the same because IMO he wasn't looking for Covid rule-breakers, he was looking for a young woman alone so he could do his indescribably awful deeds. Even if SE was not quite following the rules (we don't know for sure) nothing on earth gave WC any excuse to do what he did.

Obviously, and I haven't suggested otherwise. But I won't repeat myself.

 

[Dotta]

“A McDonald's worker today revealed how Wayne Couzens exposed himself to her three weeks before killing Sarah Everard.

The woman said she was working at a drive-thru on the A20 near Swanley in Kent at the start of February when she saw Couzens pulling up by the order hatch with his trousers down.

The staff member - who said she recognised Couzens from the news coverage after he was identified as Miss Everard's killer, told MailOnline: 'The whole has thing left me quite disturbed. He casually pulled up to the serving hatch having ordered his food and I could clearly see that he was naked from below the waist.”

I’ve just seen this on the daily mail. I know they’re not the most reliable source but if this is true I am infuriated. They brushed off the flashing three days before the murder as ‘we hadn’t gotten round to it yet as it was so soon’. But this? They had WEEKS to look at the CCTV and identify him. I am so disgusted

I would have spilled hot coffee over his *treasures*
Oops, sorry Sir, you made me lose my head!

 

[seasideForest]

I think it would be very useful for people to have a general awareness of how the police operate in terms of stopping someone in the street and stopping a motor vehicle.
...

@LucyRocket in your example, a simple breach of a covid regulation would mean you would either be given a verbal warning or possibly given a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or reported for the offence and summonsed to court later. ...

The use of handcuffs is a use of force and had to be justified by the officer to the custody sergeant when arriving at the custody suite as is any other use of force. If you are compliant and not a flight risk, aggressive, wanted etc then you are most unlikely to be handcuffed.
...
So the way in which you are processed depends on the offence you have been stopped for and the way in which you conduct yourself. If an officer is arresting you for a minor offence when you have confirmed your details or they are trying to restrain you unnecessarily or looking to apply handcuffs then let the warning bells ring.

Thank you so much Whitehall for this long, very informative post. Respectfully shortened by me because anybody who wants can refer back to your original for the complete information.

UBM - Sadly according to what a former boyfriend of SE is quoted as saying about her on Thread #15, post 772 (savvy and streetwise etc), it sounds as if she might well have been able to act in accordance with your suggestion here, had she only known. I don't think I'm the only person who might not be able to. When under stress, I go into Freeze (instead of Fight or Flight) and can't even think properly never mind defend myself verbally. Unfortunately somebody in a uniform with appropriate ID will know they have a good chance of getting away with it because of Freeze response in some people.

RIP Sarah.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Do you think if the bus camera hadn't picked up the number plate, they'd never have found him? Or maybe they could've tracked the car to Dover?

It's unfathomable that a police officer wouldn't know he'd be picked up by cameras. It's like he wanted to be caught whilst paradoxically going to efforts to evade detection.

If you wanted to abduct someone, it would make more sense to do it in the countryside rather than a city

I like to think they would still have caught him. It would just have been a really long and laborious task. If they caught her on ring door bells and then noticed when she didn’t reappear they could have surmised she was abducted into a car. So then they track down the drivers of all the cars that passed between the ANPR cameras and interview those individuals. It would have relied on the instinct of and interviewing officer though - and checking out WCs story. He could have claimed he hired that car to go to work - but a check on that would have led police to realise he wasn’t due at work. So had no reason to be in London. Hopefully that might have been enough start a seed of doubt and a trail of crumbs in his direction. If those eye witnesses had still had come forward, even without the number plate I would think the description of the car matching a car he hired, drove to london but had no reason to be would still have led them to him. Even if it was a few days/weeks later. And once they have him in their sights, a check of his phone location data would have been enough to ring serious alarm bells. And given what he actually did, I think they might still have found her given that is the route they followed once he was at front and centre at the scene and they tracked his data to track down where he visited and so narrowed down where to look. Especially as he swapped cars and moved all over the place for absolutely no reason for and entire night during lockdown.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I have been stopped quite a few times by female police officers (two of them) while driving late at night (to and from university some distance to where I was living). Apparently they have a quota and seems I was the only car out on that road late at night! Same two officers each time. Obviously checking for drink drivers but only asked to see licence etc (or take it to police station). Now I got quite annoyed and told them they shouldn’t keep stopping the same car and made a complaint to the police station. Thing is I felt more confident with female police officers. If they had been male, and a bit heavy, I would have felt more intimidated and not dare to challenge or ask to call someone of asked to get in a car. I wasn’t actually asked to get in a car though. But even so. A lot depends on the manner of the officer - if they were friendly (so you didn’t feel intimidated) or if they came on heavy.

That must have been a while ago.....take your D/L to the P/S!

A uniformed officer can stop any vehicle or pedal cycle on the public highway, no further reason is required. A driver can be required to provide their driving licence, Cert of Insurance and MOT test certificate, name, address, date of birth and name of the owner of the vehicle. A cyclist their name, address and date of birth and the owner of the bike.

In most cases these days by providing identification, it can easily be confirmed that you hold a valid driving licence and there is a valid Cert of Insurance and MOT test certificate in force for the vehicle. This is done on a vehicle tablet linked to various police and external databases.

I guess if you are being stopped constantly by the same officers other that 'because they can', then a complaint is perfectly legitimate.

 

[Sally4x]

I was in tears today hearing the sentence. IMO it was the only just sentence. R.I.P. Sarah. I am thinking about her family and friends and hoping they find some peace going forwards.

 

[seasideForest]

What I was wondering was how he might have proceeded with someone who was indisputably entitled to be out - a key worker on their way home from work, for example.

Could you maybe hazard a guess yourself so some of us can understand what you're driving at here? I obviously misunderstood your original post. I'm sorry about that. But this response to somebody else doesn't make it any clearer to me what you're really asking here.

 

[dgfred]

Does life sentence in UK mean life sentence for sure? No possibility of parole?

 

[LucyRocket]

Does life sentence in UK mean life sentence for sure? No possibility of parole?

WHOLE life sentence does, yes.

 

[Newthoughts]

And I'm infuriated by the defence counsel statement that by pleading guilty he saved Sarah's family from humiliation at trial. They never would have been humiliated. He's the only one who we view with disgust and that would only have multiplied with hearing details at a trial

Sadly the defence is absolutely correct on this one point. In rightly honouring the right of everyone to a fair trial our justice system really does let down the memories of innocent victims by allowing vile and humiliating claims to be put forward in defence.

An extreme example was the trial of Levi Bellfield for the rape and murder of teenager Milly Dowler. His claim that she'd committed suicide allowed every teenage poem and strop to be distorted in court and even resulted in her poor mother taking the stand. Other cases victims past and histories have been made public as defences

If this had gone to trial with this evidence I'd have put money of his vile defence going down the route of Sarah consenting to sex. Consenting to him asking if she'd wear handcuffs for fun. I'd bet on him either going for rough sex gone wrong followed by panic by him. Or possible an accident after the sex followed by panic by him. Or even persisting with the Romanian gang story

None of it would be believable but it would have to be allowed. Prosecution would have to counter it and see it would put her family thru even more hell.

 

[LucyRocket]

Yes, of course.
The point - which was made by the prosecution - was that Sarah would almost certainly have been less compliant had she been confident that she hadn't bent the rules.
What I was wondering was how he might have proceeded with someone who was indisputably entitled to be out - a key worker on their way home from work, for example.

I was in this position. Was only stopped twice, was expecting it to be more! The second occasion was an officer who's a friend, so we had a friendly catch up and I went on my way. The first, they believed my story that I was on my way home from work, but if they hadn't and had asked me to go in their car to the station to complete some paperwork, I would have done so keenly, knowing that I was in the right.

 

[LucyRocket]

Sadly the defence is absolutely correct on this one point. In rightly honouring the right of everyone to a fair trial our justice system really does let down the memories of innocent victims by allowing vile and humiliating claims to be put forward in defence.

An extreme example was the trial of Levi Bellfield for the rape and murder of teenager Milly Dowler. His claim that she'd committed suicide allowed every teenage poem and strop to be distorted in court and even resulted in her poor mother taking the stand. Other cases victims past and histories have been made public as defences

If this had gone to trial with this evidence I'd have put money of his vile defence going down the route of Sarah consenting to sex. Consenting to him asking if she'd wear handcuffs for fun. I'd bet on him either going for rough sex gone wrong followed by panic by him. Or possible an accident after the sex followed by panic by him. Or even persisting with the Romanian gang story

None of it would be believable but it would have to be allowed. Prosecution would have to counter it and see it would put her family thru even more hell.

I guess so. I just thought of it from my point of view that there is CCTV footage of him showing his badge, and eye witness evidence of him putting her in handcuffs. Beyond that, any of his claims would only make me view him with more humiliating perversion, and more sympathy for her

 

[Newthoughts]

It's just so wrongheaded. He burnt the body in a fridge, so a witness saw it, then had to start again?

Yeah - highly experienced.

Like why use the fridge?

If the DM say it you can be pretty sure it's wrong.

 

[Cherwell]

Could you maybe hazard a guess yourself so some of us can understand what you're driving at here? I obviously misunderstood your original post. I'm sorry about that. But this response to somebody else doesn't make it any clearer to me what you're really asking here.

Simply that someone else might have stood their ground and produced proof that they were about their lawful business. I guess he would have given up on her and gone prowling for someone else.

 

[Ched]

Wayne Couzens was known as 'the rapist' by other officers says Chief Inspector
Drug abuse
Wayne Couzens was known as “the rapist” by other officers at times during his career, the Chief Inspector of Constabulary Sir Tom Winsor has confirmed.

Sir Tom said the Independent Office for Police Conduct was investigating what other officers knew about Couzens following his conviction for the murder of Sarah Everard.

Asked on BBC Radio 4’s The World At One if he was aware of Couzens’ reputation as “the rapist”, Sir Tom said: “Yes, I do know that. And (he) also had allegedly a reputation in terms of drug abuse, extreme *advertiser censored* and other offences of this kind.”

 

[OrangeRhyme]

I like to think they would still have caught him. It would just have been a really long and laborious task. If they caught her on ring door bells and then noticed when she didn’t reappear they could have surmised she was abducted into a car. So then they track down the drivers of all the cars that passed between the ANPR cameras and interview those individuals. It would have relied on the instinct of and interviewing officer though - and checking out WCs story. He could have claimed he hired that car to go to work - but a check on that would have led police to realise he wasn’t due at work. So had no reason to be in London. Hopefully that might have been enough start a seed of doubt and a trail of crumbs in his direction. If those eye witnesses had still had come forward, even without the number plate I would think the description of the car matching a car he hired, drove to london but had no reason to be would still have led them to him. Even if it was a few days/weeks later. And once they have him in their sights, a check of his phone location data would have been enough to ring serious alarm bells. And given what he actually did, I think they might still have found her given that is the route they followed once he was at front and centre at the scene and they tracked his data to track down where he visited and so narrowed down where to look. Especially as he swapped cars and moved all over the place for absolutely no reason for and entire night during lockdown.

Do you think police can access mobile phones which ping close to the scene of a serious crime?
Like, just pull up a list of all mobiles pinging close to Poynders Rd at 9.30pm 3rd March

I like to think they would still have caught him. It would just have been a really long and laborious task. If they caught her on ring door bells and then noticed when she didn’t reappear they could have surmised she was abducted into a car. So then they track down the drivers of all the cars that passed between the ANPR cameras and interview those individuals. It would have relied on the instinct of and interviewing officer though - and checking out WCs story. He could have claimed he hired that car to go to work - but a check on that would have led police to realise he wasn’t due at work. So had no reason to be in London. Hopefully that might have been enough start a seed of doubt and a trail of crumbs in his direction. If those eye witnesses had still had come forward, even without the number plate I would think the description of the car matching a car he hired, drove to london but had no reason to be would still have led them to him. Even if it was a few days/weeks later. And once they have him in their sights, a check of his phone location data would have been enough to ring serious alarm bells. And given what he actually did, I think they might still have found her given that is the route they followed once he was at front and centre at the scene and they tracked his data to track down where he visited and so narrowed down where to look. Especially as he swapped cars and moved all over the place for absolutely no reason for and entire night during lockdown.

I still find it unfathomable that a police officer with nearly 20 years experience couldn't come up with a more thorough plan.

Could GCHQ track all mobiles that were in the Poynders Rd area at 9.30 pm maybe?
He left his phone on the entire time also.

Do people think it's possible that he was stalking a specific woman that he was looking for that night, but he couldn't find her so went for Sarah instead?

He started in Kensington to Earls Court onto Battersea Bridge, then circled back. Maybe he was stalking a certain he's seen along that road at that time.

Or did he pick Sarah cos she looked young and therefore more gullible? She looks more like a teenager in those clothes.

Anyway, it's horrific and I hope her family have some sort of closure at least.

 

[Skigh]

Wayne Couzens: Killer cop's QC believes he should NOT die behind bars because there are worse crimes | Daily Mail Online


The world is a safer place without you in it': Sarah Everard's family make final brave statement to 'self-pitying, grotesque' killer cop Wayne Couzens as they wipe away tears to watch him learn that he will DIE in prison for her kidnap, rape and murder

 

[LucyRocket]

It was premeditated and thought out IMO. The moment he handcuffed her she couldn’t use her phone.

Nor couldn't undo her belt, car door handle, grab him, attack him. Nothing but plead. This is the point that gets to me most. All of the other things that have come up during sentencing were not a surprise to me, they were the most obvious conclusions I had come to. But as posters on this thread had said all of his equipment would have had to have been signed out at the start of his shift and signed back in at the end, I never imagined he might have so easily incapacitated her by handcuffing. That's just the most heinous thing. Coward. Weak, inadequate coward. I would love for him to have to listen to a letter from every one of us here read out aloud to him