UPDATE Identity Confirmed As Caylee 12-19-2008 ME Info

[Charge Them All]

I am pretty sure there is no "accidental" way to wrap duct tape around the skull and place the body in a trash bag.

 

[gardenhart]

Soft tissue after six months never made any sense to me at all. The hair would have still been in the bag as it does decay very very slowly. If the tape was wrapped around her head it could have still been "in place" not to mention if she was able to get her mouth partially open and it was more its final resting place was more gag like, her hair would be imbedded in it and the tape would be wedged between her jaw. The ME did not make a statement about the existence of tape around her skull or the lack there of.

I just watched the tape again to see if I was remembering this correctly and I was - what she actually said was no "visible soft tissue." I don't know what significance that wording might have. Perhaps not visible because it was under duct tape?

I assume by soft tissue she means tissue that would be soft during life vs bone, not tissue that's soft after months of decomposition.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

I love LP but he keeps on insisting that it was an accident and then KC panicked. I pretty much can go with everything LP says but not this. I believe KC intentionally killed Caylee, in fact there is no doubt in my mind it was intentional. I'm so glad the LE has determined it was a homicide. Even if it was an accident, who proceeds to duck tape their childs head and then dispose of them in the forest.

Why are they being so kind to her in Jail? Makes my stomach turn. She's getting personal visits from the Pastor, doesn't he have better things to do. He's wasting his time with that piece of trash, nothing will change KC. I say lock her in her cell, no commissary menu or goodiess and then throw her out with the other inmates in the yard. Maybe then justice might possibly be served!!! Anyone who thinks she's innocent needs a labatomy

I agree, nothing accidental about searching for Cholorform, shovel and other things on her computer prior to the murder. No accident. LP is trying but not thinking things through here. This was a pre-meditated murder to get back at her over controlling mother and to dispose of a child she was forced to keep.

 

[txsvicki]

It's so annoying to see people such as LP saying that it was an accident and poor Casey panicked because she was so terrified of Cindy. Hogwash. The timeline, cell phone pings, George claiming to have seen the two in the afternoon, Jesse claiming he may have heard Caylee in the background, and Casey's behavior directly afterward all point to premeditation. I don't even believe that Cindy claimed to have seen the ladder by the pool on the 16th. Wasn't it afterward?

 

[passionflower]

missing 31 days gone unreported
kc left her rot in a garbage bag in the woods for 6 months
every one of the A family lied, covered up
kc partied and had fun while blaming a nanny that never exists
computer search of neckbreaking, shovel, cloroform
tape around a little skull
kc never cried for anyone but herself, never CAYLEE
kc never wanted CAYLEE, like a toy kc threw CAYLEE away
no one seemed to mourn for CAYLEE, only concerned for kc
IMO it was a brutal slaying of a precious 2 year old that was kc's mistake according to CA- what an awful thing to say about GOD's gift!!!!
years of abuse that will come out later! Nurse CA kept it quiet and hidden
IMO

 

[Star12]

missing 31 days gone unreported
kc left her rot in a garbage bag in the woods for 6 months
every one of the A family lied, covered up
kc partied and had fun while blaming a nanny that never exists
computer search of neckbreaking, shovel, cloroform
tape around a little skull
kc never cried for anyone but herself, never CAYLEE
kc never wanted CAYLEE, like a toy kc threw CAYLEE away
no one seemed to mourn for CAYLEE, only concerned for kc
IMO it was a brutal slaying of a precious 2 year old that was kc's mistake according to CA- what an awful thing to say about GOD's gift!!!!
years of abuse that will come out later! Nurse CA kept it quiet and hidden
IMO

Has LE actually said there was duct tape? Or clothing? Does anyone actually have a link for this? TIA

 

[FrenchFry]

Even though it was pretty much known for the last week that these remains were Caylee, it still hurts to have them confirmed. I am happy that she will finally get her proper burial in a much better resting place. Bless your heart Caylee. You will never be forgotten!:angel:

I am so interested in how this all pans out now. There have been so many twists and turns during the past 6 months. I just hope we can find out the truth about what happened. I don't expect KC to talk ever though.

 

[passionflower]

soft tissue? mummified like the bog people under water?? Just wondering and teeth found away from skull and not in bag is a mystery to me........the truth will come out about her slaying...........hit in face???

 

[passionflower]

NEVER believe kc if she says accident............nope NEVER!!! I bet since birth kc has done some abuse to CAYLEE............kc/CAYLEE were not like mom/daughter.............
it was CA & CAYLEE and kc hated CAYLEE! IMO

 

[Garnan]

We have to remember, that we are talking about baby teeth, no roots.

I do think Casey will talk eventually. When the spotlight on her goes out, she's going to want it back. Even bad attention is attention. And she likes the attention. Eventually she will speak.

 

[gardenhart]

We have to remember, that we are talking about baby teeth, no roots.

I do think Casey will talk eventually. When the spotlight on her goes out, she's going to want it back. Even bad attention is attention. And she likes the attention. Eventually she will speak.

Excellent point, Garnan. I think you're right. At some point, perhaps after the trial when she's stewing in her prison cell, she'll feel the need to grab more attention and talk.

 

[wallflower67]

what about shaken baby? that prob wouldn't show physical trauma, unless the neck was broken...which I guess it was not. But since there is no brain to examine, we can't know.

That is one thing that comes to mind as I'm pondering why she didn't call the police if it was an accident, though that's assault, not an accident.

 

[luvbeaches]

A prosecutor interviewed by In Session TV just now said that the no cause of death determination is "DEVASTATING" to the prosecution. He stated that even if a jury convicts her because of the bias created by media, etc. that an appellate court will see it differently.

Did they ever determine the cause of death for Laci Peterson? I don't think they did.

 

[impatientredhead]

Did they ever determine the cause of death for Laci Peterson? I don't think they did.

No they did not, cause of death: undetermined.

If you do a google search there are hundreds of convictions with no body at all. Those ALL have undetermined causes of death. And there are 100s and 100s and 100s of other cases were if the body is not found before serious decomp has occured they cannot determine the cause of death. This is not rare, it is not a huge benefit to the defense.

They can't get in front of a jury at this point and say the state is wrong, the evidence does not show that my client intended to kill her child, it was an accident! <insert mystery resolved here> That would involve her admitting guilt to something they have offered her plea deals to do over and over. That scenario makes zero sense. If they go to trial they are saying Casey did not kill Caylee. The evidence shows otherwise, her cold heartedness allowed for the ME to not tell you exactly how she did it, but the circumstance show she did and literally went out drinking, dancing, shopping and f'ing. Nothing changes any of that. It just doesn't.

 

[impatientredhead]

Even for those of us who may not yet be ready to hang KC for premeditation nor necessarily even murder before seeing the evidence at trial, there already exists ample evidence that the subsequent COVER-UP was not accidental. FYI it is simply a question for some of whether it was staged. JMO



(bold mine) That's L-o-b-o-t-o-m-y (as in brain 'lobe') and for the record some of us just distinguish between crimes, ie allow for the possibility one could be guilty of neglect or even culpable negligence, along w failing to render aid, abusing a corpse, tampering w evidence, hindering an investigation, making false statements eg--while still never having committed premeditated murder. You, obviously, make no such distinctions. JMO

If your assumptions about Casey are true, which as you know I don't agree with, but if you are right than I hope she comes to her senses really soon and doesn't drag her parent through a trial because if this was an accident her choices afterwards are about to get her convicted of felony murder. Her defense as I understand it is she didn't do it period. The forensics and the investigation are not going to support that and she doesn't seem to be allowing her attorney to give the jury the option of "she isn't guilty of killing her, she made some bad choices after a horrible accident"... and with that option off the table for discussion, she will most likely be convicted of intentionally murdering her own child. Which again I think she did before everyone attacks me with evidence of why it wasn't an accident

 

[Macushla]

I can accept the concept that she panicked after an accident occurred, freaked because she knew she was going to be blamed by MOM for not being a good mother. She decided to 'hide' the body and claim a kidnapping. Ok, up to that point I can sorta, a little bit, maybe in a backwards sort of way, think maybe this happened. However, if this 'mother of the year' did have that happen, then I woud expect her to lovingly wrap her in her favorite blanket, surround her with her favorite doll and stuffed animals and find a lovely, shaded, out of the way spot and bury her deep so no animal would find her. What do we know about where/how Caylee was found? Thrown away, tossed off the side of the road in a garbage bag, with duct tape somehow involved. That is my problem with the accident theory! I think it was deliberate.

 

[scandi]

Soft tissue after six months never made any sense to me at all. The hair would have still been in the bag as it does decay very very slowly. If the tape was wrapped around her head it could have still been "in place" not to mention if she was able to get her mouth partially open and it was more its final resting place was more gag like, her hair would be imbedded in it and the tape would be wedged between her jaw. The ME did not make a statement about the existence of tape around her skull or the lack there of.

It didn't make sense to me either. The only thing I can think of is somehow there was DNA left in the sticky part of the tape that remained there. It is amazing what they can do nowadays with forensic testing. And if the tongue was out it would have left an imprint on the tape. For that matter, so would lips and the hair would remain attached to the tape.

Of course Dr G wouldn't mention this as it is a plum for the defense and she doesn't want to impede the investigation. Those early things we heard last Thurs and Fri - I bet allot of them have merit. The things we have heard that were not right have been corrected like the witness finding the skull not being the same guy who called in.


It is getting to be a very complicated case. But at least there is info coming out. I have studied several cases where we almost died to get any new info. xox

 

[irishinme]

Sorry for asking twice on this thread. Does anyone know what Caylee's official date of death is or will be? Who sets this date and how do they decide it?

The media repeatedly refers to Caylee as a 3 yo but she went missing and was presumed dead @ 2yo.

TIA

 

[Texana]

Sorry for asking twice on this thread. Does anyone know what Caylee's official date of death is or will be? Who sets this date and how do they decide it?

The media repeatedly refers to Caylee as a 3 yo but she went missing and was presumed dead @ 2yo.

TIA

I believe they will give an estimated time of death, given the state of the remains, but that will be a "window" kind of time frame in terms of hours or even a day or days. (a very short number of days.) The defense will use that window to full advantage to try and provide Casey with any kind of alibi.

 

[irishinme]

ty, texana.

what did they or will they decide for purpose of her death certificate?

I believe they will give an estimated time of death, given the state of the remains, but that will be a "window" kind of time frame in terms of hours or even a day or days. (a very short number of days.) The defense will use that window to full advantage to try and provide Casey with any kind of alibi.