UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #4

[ella971]

Thanks. I haven't yet had enough coffee and again could not sleep. Didn't fall asleep until a little after 5am. Ugh! Your post makes sense, thanks.

I have not been able to sleep at all.Thank you for your post.I'm chugging diet coke trying to get my eyes to stay open.I have to help my daughter with a project that is due tomorrow.Thanks for letting me fly my freak flag! Hope you can get a nap later.

 

[laytonian]

You're right, but there was no hotline call or investigation. All I've seen so far were a couple of vague accusations by Dad that she'd abandoned him and was unstable. Anybody can say this. I reserve the right to change my mind should other records come out showing the dad did describe the abandonment and instability.

This is another difficult issue, because there were chances for the father to truly stand up for his son. In divorces, each side villainizes the other; a judge hears it in nearly every case.

He could have obtained an attorney, instead of using mediation. Mediation was begun as a way to have a "friendly" divorce; now, it's the cheap way out.

An attorney would have brought in people to testify against SS.

He could have "sold" Ethan to SS, for the amount of money due from the expected injury settlement. (Remember, she wanted the entire amount or full custody -- how about the entire amount and NO custody for her?)

When the mediated settlement went before the judge, he could have spoken up. SS DID NOT SHOW UP AT COURT, per several reports.

If he truly believed SS was a danger to the child, he could have refused to send Ethan to Utah. SS would have had to sue him, and that would have reopened the case, and allowed for other charges (such as "SS wants to take child into the home of a drug user.") He could have had NS's ex testify in his behalf.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[SailorMoon]

Among the many questions I have---one I really don't get and that is - why did she take pictures?? Why? Because she wanted to re-live it later on, or just why exactly?

 

[eyes4crime]

This is exactly why IMO Ethan was no longer alive = [

That's the day they got married - put Ethan in the bedroom, took the handle off so he couldn't get out. Oh, I think he was alive at that point, they weren't through with that child yet - MOO I can't help but think they were enjoying the slow demise of Ethan, and of course the power that goes along with it! moo

 

[smart blonde]

I'd suspect that they're trying to determine if the hammer was used before or after death. They also need to determine who used the hammer. If the hammer has been recovered, it may have DNA/fingerprints from either or both.

It really makes **no sense at all** to disfigure a face; any clown who's seen CSI knows how that remains are identified in other ways.

I think it's going to get much worse, than we can imagine. MOO.

That is a haunting thought- that the hammer may have been used on Ethan before he was even dead.

This case is absolutely horrifying.

I fear you may be right, and even worse details or still to come.

 

[nursebeeme]

eyes,
I tried to delete the timeline on page one but I couldn't :-( as it has been longer than 24 hours... sorry!

 

[Kat]

I wonder... what are the chances that Nathanael Sloop's alleged diagnoses of Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) will be used in/ as his defense? (His ex-wife Jennifer has stated that he had been diagnosed with MPD, and that he claimed to have two other personalities, one he called 'Ghost', which was very violent and filled with rage).

I also wonder if the prescription Stephanie is said to have picked up at Walgreen's at 5:00 a.m., may have been prescribed psychiatric drugs for Nathanael?

Maybe by that time, even 'Nate' realized he needed help- something to help him 'focus', as there was now so much 'work' (mutilation, burial, synchronizing stories, etc) to be done.

I wonder, too, if he received a state disability check for psychiatric reasons every month, and this is why he seemingly wasn't employed (as far as I can find).

I truly believe these two spent that week high on meth. Meth is dangerous enough all on it's own, but combined with existing mental problems, it has proven to be explosively deadly.

These are just my personal speculations at this point.

~ Links referencing Nathanael's supposed Multiple Personality Disorder:

http://www.deseretnews.com/mobile/a...y-feared-unstable-mother-would-steal-him.html

http://sltrib.com/news/ci-15087130?source=rss

Respectfully bolded by me.

(me pondering too): If he had a diagnosis from a Dr. and his alleged MPD (DID) was notated in medical records then he stands a better chance to use this as a defense if that is how the defense wants to approach it.

If it is proved to be undocumented prior to this crime then he will more than likely have an eval and if he does have it then it can be diagnosed then.

I am not doubting his ex-wife's reporting. I am cautious because it may very well be that he told her he was diagnosed with that disorder rather than showing her documents that stated he was diagnosed KWIM?

off the top of my head (others may know more about the outcomes of trials where this defense was used) but I don't think it makes a solid defense most of the time. IIRC the hillside strangler tried to use it? (someone please correct me if I am wrong about that). (i'm lazy this morning with google.)

I need to look up his current attn. Have a look at his style of defense. Then again that attn has already stated to a reporter (the morning of the first court appearance of NS that he will not be lead if this goes to DP)

 

[eyes4crime]

eyes,
I tried to delete the timeline on page one but I couldn't :-( as it has been longer than 24 hours... sorry!

That's okay nurse - the revised one is top of page 14 and I'll try to bring that one over to the next thread. Just that the new one had some significant revisions. No big deal, especially this time in the am. moo

 

[Cubby]

Hi Cubby, if there is a law in the state, is the thinking that LE are not doing their job? If this woman met with an obviously beat up child, with bruised face, broken jaw, and clearly in danger, why wouldn't she have been charged as such? Seems to me this is such a high profile case, LE can't afford to overlook the one person who could have saved this child. Are we assuming LE are negligent? tia

I'm not assuming LE is negligent. What I meant was
1)LE has not yet confirmed that PS in fact saw Ethan with injuries and failed to report such.
2)LE has not yet charged PS with a crime.

Until LE confirms the above, speculation about PS seeing and not reporting injuries on Ethan should be discussed as a possibility, not confirmed fact.

JMHO

 

[ella971]

Respectfully bolded by me.

(me pondering too): If he had a diagnosis from a Dr. and his alleged MPD (DID) was notated in medical records then he stands a better chance to use this as a defense if that is how the defense wants to approach it.

If it is proved to be undocumented prior to this crime then he will more than likely have an eval and if he does have it then it can be diagnosed then.

I am not doubting his ex-wife's reporting. I am cautious because it may very well be that he told her he was diagnosed with that disorder rather than showing her documents that stated he was diagnosed KWIM?

off the top of my head (others may know more about the outcomes of trials where this defense was used) but I don't think it makes a solid defense most of the time. IIRC the hillside strangler tried to use it? (someone please correct me if I am wrong about that). (i'm lazy this morning with google.)

I need to look up his current attn. Have a look at his style of defense. Then again that attn has already stated to a reporter (the morning of the first court appearance of NS that he will not be lead if this goes to DP)

I'm kind of thinking no matter what his defense will be once the jury has to look at the photos of Ethan after a hammer was used on his face that will be his nail in his own coffin.

 

[essies]

That is a haunting thought- that the hammer may have been used on Ethan before he was even dead.

This case is absolutely horrifying.

I fear you may be right, and even worse details or still to come.

ITA
Which is why I'm sure the SA is taking their time "getting their ducks in a row" to make sure these 2 monsters are charged to the highest level that can made!:furious:
Praise and Kudos to the Utah SA-take your time!! Ethan's in heaven and no more harm can be done to him! It's NS and SS's turn to feel pain!!:furious:

 

[RubyRed]

Community gathers to mourn Ethan Stacy​

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10791003
​

 

[Cubby]

This is another difficult issue, because there were chances for the father to truly stand up for his son. In divorces, each side villainizes the other; a judge hears it in nearly every case.

He could have obtained an attorney, instead of using mediation. Mediation was begun as a way to have a "friendly" divorce; now, it's the cheap way out.

An attorney would have brought in people to testify against SS.

He could have "sold" Ethan to SS, for the amount of money due from the expected injury settlement. (Remember, she wanted the entire amount or full custody -- how about the entire amount and NO custody for her?)

When the mediated settlement went before the judge, he could have spoken up. SS DID NOT SHOW UP AT COURT, per several reports.

If he truly believed SS was a danger to the child, he could have refused to send Ethan to Utah. SS would have had to sue him, and that would have reopened the case, and allowed for other charges (such as "SS wants to take child into the home of a drug user.") He could have had NS's ex testify in his behalf.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I have to respectfully disagree. I would not consider mediation the "cheap way out". Mediation is often recommended and if a parent chooses not to participate they are viewed by the courts as uncooperative. I am certain every choice JS made was with consideration and willingness to demonstrate his cooperativeness in working towards coparenting.

Based on JS's statements as well as my almost 8.5 years as a never married single parent and just as much time participating in various single parent forums it is very clear JS's greatest fears were the odds the courts would rule in the mothers favor when granting custody. Which is a very reasonable fear imo.

I don't for a second believe he had prior knowledge of Nathans former wifes experiences. Unless she personally notified JS of such how on earth would he know that? Nor was it her responsibility to notify him of such considering in all likelihood she had no knowledge of SS and NS's relationship.

I will not villify JS for not taking stronger steps to protect Ethan. I have zero reason to believe he felt SS or NS would be as abusive towards Ethan as they were. He did what most fathers would do, and that was to ensure he had equal parenting time with shared custody.


JMO

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Among the many questions I have---one I really don't get and that is - why did she take pictures?? Why? Because she wanted to re-live it later on, or just why exactly?

Personally, I think she took pictures because she was already planning her defense. "Well, I was planning to go to the cops to save my son. See, I even had photos already taken because I was collecting evidence" sort of thing.

 

[smart blonde]

I agree, Cubby.

I don't believe that Ethan's father could have foreseen that Ethan's mother was going to stand by and allow (or participate in) Ethan to be tortured and murdered.

In one of the articles I read this morning (no link at the moment), Ethan's father stated he even briefly met Nathanael Sloop, and said he thought NS "seemed like a decent guy".

I don't for a second feel that Ethan's father is responsible in any way, for his son's tragic death.

 

[Kat]

I'm kind of thinking no matter what his defense will be once the jury has to look at the photos of Ethan after a hammer was used on his face that will be his nail in his own coffin.

I agree ella. I can't see any viable defense in this case. I've tried to look at it from 40 different angles. IMHO.

We don't even know exactly what they did to Ethan. Or which one of them did it. We only have seen probable cause statements. LE is just outlining in the barest of details what happened in those. JMHO.

For those that follow the trial phases of cases this is going to be an interesting one if they both don't plead for LWOP. Could be a possibility ( if this goes to DP, Huckaby ~~ sandra cantu's ~~ murderer just pled out in that case). There is the distinct possibility this may not even go to trial. It all depends on the SA and if they will take a plea. Too many variables right now IMHO to even hazard a guess as to how this might go.

JMHO.

 

[Kat]

Personally, I think she took pictures because she was already planning her defense. "Well, I was planning to go to the cops to save my son. See, I even had photos already taken because I was collecting evidence" sort of thing.

<snort> kaylynn your probably right about that!

OT: I snorted because it sounded like "I was looking for the Nanny at the club for 31 days" "I was conducting my own investigation" <sigh>

Sorry.

 

[essies]

Personally, I think she took pictures because she was already planning her defense. "Well, I was planning to go to the cops to save my son. See, I even had photos already taken because I was collecting evidence" sort of thing.

She can try-but it won't fly(OMG-I sound like that woman on Nancy Grace):blushing:!! Any "normal" mother would have gotten between the abuser and her child and fought like a tiger!! I wonder if SS even had a bruise on her!! I'm sure she'll say she was scared and that he threatened her! Won't matter-a threat to my life wouldn't stop me from getting in the way of my child's attacker!! And she had too many opportunities to alert the authorities without any harm coming to her!!
This where security video cameras and witness statements conerning demeanor will play a bug part! NS and SS are toast!!:furious:

 

[smart blonde]

I believe that the main reason for them to rush off and get married right then, instead of waiting for their planned wedding in July, is because one of them (or both of them) mistakenly believed that if they were husband and wife, they wouldn't be required to testify against the other.

How romantic.

 

[RubyRed]

ABC 4 is taking a closer look at the relationship between Ethan's father and mother before they divorced. The story will air on ABC 4 May 15 at 5:00 p.m.

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Candle-light-vigil-for-Ethan-Stacy/x-NE6YhIq0eqHJLLR8KdDA.cspx