UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #4

[nursebeeme]

Personally, I think she took pictures because she was already planning her defense. "Well, I was planning to go to the cops to save my son. See, I even had photos already taken because I was collecting evidence" sort of thing.

I couldn't agree more and I echo Kat's ^snort^

When you look at all the information in her pcs it was all "the world according to stephanie sloop"

When you look at nathan sloops pcs he didn't say a thing really

Then we have the SA saying not to take the pcs(s) as the truth and that there is more to the story

And THEN we have the SA changing the holding of probable cause of stephanie to agg murder.

All that being said I think she had a motive for taking those pictures. She is pretty stupid if she thinks they are going to get her out of the trouble she is currently in. They have rather turned into some nails in her coffin.

moo

 

[monkeymama]

Well LE states that the first photos showing clear signs of abuse were from the 4th. She claims to have seen him on the 5th. She either didn't see him at all and was just getting carried away in the interview trying to sugarcoat her son and DiL, or she did and needs to be charged. JMO.

IMO, I don't think PS saw them at all, nor do I think SS went to her house that night either. I would like to know if PS made that statement right away, or if she did it after some details were released, perhaps in effort to 'help' NS. Again, imo, she doesn't believe a word she is saying in the interview. Her mouth is saying one thing, but her body is saying another. I really do think that she is heartbroken by it, and may be even feeling a little bit guilty.

 

[Valleyboy]

Personally, I think she took pictures because she was already planning her defense. "Well, I was planning to go to the cops to save my son. See, I even had photos already taken because I was collecting evidence" sort of thing.

I don't think so or she would have went and reported it after the first day the pictures were taken.

IMOP she is just one sick chick

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

I have to respectfully disagree. I would not consider mediation the "cheap way out". Mediation is often recommended and if a parent chooses not to participate they are viewed by the courts as uncooperative. I am certain every choice JS made was with consideration and willingness to demonstrate his cooperativeness in working towards coparenting.

Based on JS's statements as well as my almost 8.5 years as a never married single parent and just as much time participating in various single parent forums it is very clear JS's greatest fears were the odds the courts would rule in the mothers favor when granting custody. Which is a very reasonable fear imo.

I don't for a second believe he had prior knowledge of Nathans former wifes experiences. Unless she personally notified JS of such how on earth would he know that? Nor was it her responsibility to notify him of such considering in all likelihood she had no knowledge of SS and NS's relationship.

I will not villify JS for not taking stronger steps to protect Ethan. I have zero reason to believe he felt SS or NS would be as abusive towards Ethan as they were. He did what most fathers would do, and that was to ensure he had equal parenting time with shared custody.


JMO

IMO JS did his best by stating in his temporay order that SS had abandoned their son and she was unstable and he was afraid she would come and take Ethan and he would never see him again...we all know now that this is exactly what happened. The judge should have imposed supervised visitation only until she proved she was a responsible, loving parent that cared more about her son then herself. Any parent that voluntarily does not see their own child for 8 months should not be allowed to just come and take off with them to another state for the summer. She already proved she was more into herself then her son by not seeing him for 8 months. I just don't get it, I don't know why any judge would allow her to take him, make her prove she cares first don't just assume she does, I can pretty much bet that had she been given supervised visitation she would not have used it because she just wanted to be in control of the situation and not have anyone telling her what she had to do, she obviously did not care about her own child.

 

[Adrienne37]

JMO but hell ain't hot enough for either of them. Sickening, disgusting, and EVIL plain and simple. There is no excuse for this woman. She had ample opportunity to get help for that precious baby but she chose to let him suffer and die and based on what we know right now, it sounds like he really did suffer a long and horrific death at the hands of both of them. She's just as guilty as he is no two-ways about it. As far as Sloop's mother goes, hopefully she had her days confused because if she didn't, then I hope charges are filed against her as well for covering up what happened.

 

[monkeymama]

Respectfully bolded by me.

(me pondering too): If he had a diagnosis from a Dr. and his alleged MPD (DID) was notated in medical records then he stands a better chance to use this as a defense if that is how the defense wants to approach it.

If it is proved to be undocumented prior to this crime then he will more than likely have an eval and if he does have it then it can be diagnosed then.

I am not doubting his ex-wife's reporting. I am cautious because it may very well be that he told her he was diagnosed with that disorder rather than showing her documents that stated he was diagnosed KWIM?

off the top of my head (others may know more about the outcomes of trials where this defense was used) but I don't think it makes a solid defense most of the time. IIRC the hillside strangler tried to use it? (someone please correct me if I am wrong about that). (i'm lazy this morning with google.)

I need to look up his current attn. Have a look at his style of defense. Then again that attn has already stated to a reporter (the morning of the first court appearance of NS that he will not be lead if this goes to DP)

Idaho does not have an insanity defense and while looking, I found this:

"Four states, including Kansas, Montana, Idaho, Utah, do not allow the insanity defense. In other states, the standards for proving this defense vary widely. The following provides the status of the insanity defense in each jurisdiction."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/...se/the-insanity-defense-among-the-states.html

 

[RubyRed]

Ethan Stacy​

Mariah and Kailey Osterhout, of Clearfield, drove to the Layton Meadows apartment complex to see the memorial for Ethan Stacey, who allegedly was murdered​

Notes, flowers and other gifts make up a memorial for Ethan Stacey, outside the Layton Meadows apartment complex where he allegedly was murdered. (​

http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15094513​

 

[Cubby]

IMO JS did his best by stating in his temporay order that SS had abandoned their son and she was unstable and he was afraid she would come and take Ethan and he would never see him again...we all know now that this is exactly what happened. The judge should have imposed supervised visitation only until she proved she was a responsible, loving parent that cared more about her son then herself. Any parent that voluntarily does not see their own child for 8 months should not be allowed to just come and take off with them to another state for the summer. She already proved she was more into herself then her son by not seeing him for 8 months. I just don't get it, I don't know why any judge would allow her to take him, make her prove she cares first don't just assume she does, I can pretty much bet that had she been given supervised visitation she would not have used it because she just wanted to be in control of the situation and not have anyone telling her what she had to do, she obviously did not care about her own child.

The judge never saw that info. what the judge saw and heard was the agreed upon divorce decree including custodial provisions. To villify a judge for something she had no knowledge of imo, is BS. I am so sick of people villifying this judge because they haven't reviewed all the facts in this case and are making presumptions.

JS's fear was NOT that Ethan would be abused, tortured and murdered. It is my opinion his fear was that Stephanie would not return him, thus she would be guilty of visitation interference, or parental kidnapping.

I challenge ANYONE to show me PROOF that JS had fears that NS and SS would beat, tortureand murder Ethan and he chose not to do a thing about it.

To think JS has prior knowledge of this is as likely as someone knocking themself upside the head thinking if they would have taken route B instead of route A they might not have been involved in an automobile accident. Place the blame where it belongs - on Stephanie and Nathan.

Sheesh!

JMO

 

[sunflowerchick]

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Candle-light-vigil-for-Ethan-Stacy/x-NE6YhIq0eqHJLLR8KdDA.cspx ABC 4 is taking a closer look at the relationship between Ethan's father and mother before they divorced. The story will air on ABC 4 May 15 at 5:00 p.m.

BBM I think this date is wrong. This time is yesterday, before the article was updated last.

 

[essies]

Idaho does not have an insanity defense and while looking, I found this:

"Four states, including Kansas, Montana, Idaho, Utah, do not allow the insanity defense. In other states, the standards for proving this defense vary widely. The following provides the status of the insanity defense in each jurisdiction."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/...se/the-insanity-defense-among-the-states.html

 

[Cubby]

Idaho does not have an insanity defense and while looking, I found this:

"Four states, including Kansas, Montana, Idaho, Utah, do not allow the insanity defense. In other states, the standards for proving this defense vary widely. The following provides the status of the insanity defense in each jurisdiction."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/...se/the-insanity-defense-among-the-states.html

Excellent find! TY!

 

[Kat]

Thank you very much essies. I needed to smile today

 

[monkeymama]

Excellent find! TY!

yvw. The insanity defense is actually very rarely used. I thought only Idaho didn't allow it, but I am so glad Utah doesn't either. I wonder if SS and NS thought they could get married, not testify against each other then claim they were insane. Don't think that's gonna work. :dance:

 

[sunflowerchick]

Did anyone ever determine when the 1st photo we saw of Ethan was taken? Was that from his time in Utah? I still swear that there is bruising on the side of his face in that photo. Was it ever determined if that is bruising or if it is just shadows?

 

[nursebeeme]

Teddy Bear drive in memory of Ethan
Event » 11 a.m., May 29, Iceberg ice cream shop, 1792 S. 2000 West, Syracuse. The teddy bears are for police officers to give to children in traumatic situations.
Funeral » For information on helping to pay for Ethan's funeral, visit sltrib.com

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15094513

 

[essies]

yvw. The insanity defense is actually very rarely used. I thought only Idaho didn't allow it, but I am so glad Utah doesn't either. I wonder if SS and NS thought they could get married, not testify against each other then claim they were insane. Don't think that's gonna work. :dance:

Thank you MM-that made my day-perhaps my entire week!!:dance:

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

The judge never saw that info. what the judge saw and heard was the agreed upon divorce decree including custodial provisions. To villify a judge for something she had no knowledge of imo, is BS. I am so sick of people villifying this judge because they haven't reviewed all the facts in this case and are making presumptions.

JS's fear was NOT that Ethan would be abused, tortured and murdered. It is my opinion his fear was that Stephanie would not return him, thus she would be guilty of visitation interference, or parental kidnapping.

I challenge ANYONE to show me PROOF that JS had fears that NS and SS would beat, tortureand murder Ethan and he chose not to do a thing about it.

To think JS has prior knowledge of this is as likely as someone knocking themself upside the head thinking if they would have taken route B instead of route A they might not have been involved in an automobile accident. Place the blame where it belongs - on Stephanie and Nathan.

Sheesh!

JMO

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.:twocents:

 

['Ailina]

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/stor...JLLR8KdDA.cspx ABC 4 is taking a closer look at the relationship between Ethan's father and mother before they divorced. The story will air on ABC 4 May 15 at 5:00 p.m.

BBM I think this date is wrong. This time is yesterday, before the article was updated last.

This confused me, too.

Do you think it's safe to assume the story will air tonight, May 16th, instead?

 

[Cubby]

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.:twocents:

I understand, however child abandonment through family court is very hard to prove. SS could have claimed she was denied access to Ethan....and then it would have been her word against his.

Plus JS would have had to prove that SS was a danger to Ethan. We have no proof that he had any prior knowledge that Ethan would have been in danger in the care and custody of his mother. Courts need proof, not just claims. If courts worked on claims without proof it would be too easy for angry parents to alienate a parent and child based soley on their anger and animosity towards the other parent.

JMO

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Seriously, everytime I see that picture of Ethan and NS playing the video game I want to vomit and punch my computer monitor, it is disgusting and horrifying, and I hope that Ethan's dad never lays eyes on it, I can't even imagine the kind of pain it would cause him, it hurts me and disturbs me to look at it, I scroll through fast everytime I see it in a post.