Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

[Handsome Sailor]

MOO. I think he told lenzie hey meet me at hatch cuz my house is hard to find, that way mr lyftie wont be able to tell cops his house location. so I think there is premeditation, which is only confirmed by that contractor who talked about building a torture chamber in the basement. there may be more victims, he may be serial

 

[Whiteorchids]

It does to some people. If AA arranged it he’s completely evil and it’s all his fault. If Kenzie voluntarily agreed to the meeting, people may have to accept that she wasn’t a flawless angel who could do no wrong. Some people just don’t want to accept that Kenzie was a normal girl who may have made a choice to meet up with him completely of her own control. They want to believe she was forced into it somehow.

He is completely evil and it is his fault he killed her, bashed in left side of her skull with 5 cm hole probably from claw part of hammer, <modsnip - graphic description unnecessary> There is nothing she did to deserve this.

 

[Kensie]

He is completely evil and it is his fault he killed her, bashed in left side of her skull with 5 cm hole probably from claw part of hammer, <modsnip> There is nothing she did to deserve this.

I agree 120 percent. I could have not said it better.

 

[DD8]

I had not heard of this very recent case. It is a sad, horrid story. It may be inappropriate to link here, I don’t know. I’m doing so as it tells why this girl was killed by someone she met online.
Jealousy.
The tragic murder of Bianca Devins shows the dangers of the internet for women

I saw this yesterday. Cannot wrap my head around how people can do these things.

 

[MsBetsy]

It does to some people. If AA arranged it he’s completely evil and it’s all his fault. If Kenzie voluntarily agreed to the meeting, people may have to accept that she wasn’t a flawless angel who could do no wrong. Some people just don’t want to accept that Kenzie was a normal girl who may have made a choice to meet up with him completely of her own control. They want to believe she was forced into it somehow.

I don't know anyone who is a flawless angel who could do no wrong.
She may very well have come up with the idea to meet him in the park, in fact I doubt he forced her to meet him there at all.

What matters is at some point he forced her into a situation that she certainly did not intend to be in, whether she agreed to meet him at the park or not.

If he somehow manipulated her or tricked her into meeting her there then it shows intent. That's the only reason why it matters.

No matter who arranged the meeting, he is "completely evil and it's all his fault." Imo

 

[Kensie]

I have followed the MT case in Iowa. I realize that Iowa law could be different than Utah. In Iowa law you would be surprised to learn what a short time is involved in determining what is premeditation.
It is not even close to advance planning.

Even with Jodi Arias, Juan M emphasized how short of time that pre-meditated can be. MT was such a tragic death.

Kenzie, is also a very tragic death.

 

[ilovechili]

^ sbm @ilovechili
My apologies, I intended to question AA's ideas, not your well thought out post.
Have edited my earlier post, added:

IOW, 'hard-to-find' house is not an excuse to meet in park (or elsewhere).
But he might have tried it and/or other flimsy excuses to meet in park. Jmo.

He had lots of flimsy ideas, imo.

No problem at all.

I just wanted to clarify in case you thought that and discuss it.

 

[TristanP]

He is completely evil and it is his fault he killed her, bashed in left side of her skull with 5 cm hole probably from claw part of hammer, <modsnip - graphic description unnecessary> There is nothing she did to deserve this.

I’m sorry if it seemed that I was implying that Kenzie did anything to deserve this. That’s very different than Kenzie having been willing to meet up with him that night.

Here’s an example of what I mean: say I go meet up with my friend John Doe to have a drink sometime after midnight. I am going to meet him of my own free will, because I know him and want to spend time with him.

Then John Doe kills me, and suddenly everyone online is discussing how he clearly had to have coerced me to meet him after midnight for a drink or forced me to do it somehow, or blackmailed me. When the reality is, I just met up with my friend to have a drink. It doesn’t mean I deserve to be killed, but it can also be a fact that I voluntarily met up with him and that doesn’t mean I did anything wrong.

I’m bothered by the constant assertions that Kenzie had to have been forced outside of her own will to meet up with AA that night. Maybe she was, but it is just as likely that she knew him and trusted him enough to go hang out with him. And if she did, there’s nothing wrong with her choice to do so. It only went wrong because of HIS actions once they were together.

I just want people to see that it can actually be just fine for a grown woman to choose to meet up with a man at any time of day, and that it doesn’t have to mean she was forced to be there, and it doesn’t have to mean she was dumb or trashy and made bad decisions. Does that make sense?

I want people to be more open minded, I guess. I think some people feel that if they believe Kenzie chose to meet up with him voluntarily then that means they are blaming the victim, but that’s not what it is at all. Both things can exist: she made a choice to meet him, and she is still blameless in the end result, because she had no way of knowing what evil awaited her.

Obviously no one knows yet what happened. Maybe he did coerce her somehow.

 

[Boxer]

ITA. We were wondering about the content of the text messages even before ML's body was found. It absolutely does matter because the case turned quickly after LE received the phone data.

JMO

Yeah until LE clarifies otherwise, I am assuming them saying "texting" as opposed to "messaging" means a literal text message.

MOO younger people use DM (direct message) mode to communicate by texts within their preferred apps. Like private messaging here. So it is texts, but not through the phone service.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

MOO a date with a stranger, with no way to leave on her own; it just seems impossible.
"Is he/she an ax murderer?" is the first question almost everyone asks about unknown dating material.

Agree. When ML got in AA's car and the Lyft driver drove away, ML became extremely at risk and vulnerable. So I can't see ML wanting to meet at the park for safety reasons. IMO AA gave her some lame excuse to meet there and she trusted him.

In reality, he was up to no good and didn't want the Lyft driver to be privy to the last place ML was seen.

However, it seems AA didnt realize that Google Maps in your Smartphone keeps track of every step you take and archives that activity in your Google Timeline - unless of course that feature is turned off. Glad he didn't think of that though. Made it a bit easier for LE!

 

[wary]

I have followed the MT case in Iowa. I realize that Iowa law could be different than Utah. In Iowa law you would be surprised to learn what a short time is involved in determining what is premeditation.
It is not even close to advance planning.

I haven’t studied all the states, but in all the murder cases I’ve followed, premeditation can happen in an instant—as you said, not even close to advance planning.

And in Utah, aggravated murder is the most serious charge, and the way her body was treated is enough to elevate a murder charge into aggravated murder.

 

[10ofRods]

Gingerbread, that's a thoughtful post. It makes a lot of sense. He was constantly trying to meet "beautiful young women." Naturally, it's normal for a guy to want to do that. But, he apparently had his own ideas about how things should go from there. He was probably really excited that one of these young women had consented to come to his house in the middle of the night. I too think he was as charming as he could be on the phone or in text. Cute nerd is exactly how he was positioning himself most of them, even incorporating some television tropes into his online persona.

He had already established his "don't take no for an answer" position, though. And it's very possible that KL was definitive in her "no."

In other news, True Crime Garage devotes this week's episode(s) to the Mackenzie Lueck case.

Most of you probably know more about the case than is on the podcast, but it is now a part of the ongoing nature of the case.

 

[Zella]

MOO younger people use DM (direct message) mode to communicate by texts within their preferred apps. Like private messaging here. So it is texts, but not through the phone service.

Thank you--that makes sense! I'm only a few years older than her, but I'm still part of the group of folks who just directly text. LOL It is stunning to me how the difference of just a few years can mean such a difference in what apps/social media sites people use--I learned that when I was teaching--but I know the differences between me and teenagers is even more stark.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Mackenzie Lueck Case Archive:

Mackenzie Lueck -UT- by amanda reckonwith

 

[JudgeJoe]

Keep in mind her sorority sisters were the most vocal out of everyone in this case. Her friends and sorority sisters were responsible for getting this to the media because when she was first reported missing there were minor articles and no one was picking it up. Her sorority sisters organized the Facebook page and various other social media to find her, organized flier distribution events when she first went missing in SLC, held a press conference, have done multiple news interviews and podcasts, organized vigils, and put their lives on hold to help find her. They also attended his most recent court date and have started a non profit foundation in her honor.

I know many active in the thread are new here and haven't been here since the beginning so I just like to reiterate this.

What they & you did for Mackenzie is beautiful- not to sound simplistic, but it is. And it speaks volumes to the contribution ML made in the lives of others. I look forward to purchasing the guide they are making for how to get help from MSM when the worst is staring you down. I’m so impressed with how quickly everyone banded together, created a strategy & made it happen. AA might still be walking around free to endanger someone else if not for the quick pressure of MSM.

 

[iamcurious9]

Sorry but no, court takes every single thing into account. This isn't court for protecting people's feelings. They absolutely will talk about stuff that people on this site will find unpalatable. Because it's reality. You have to logically process the entire situation to establish a narrative. Facts don't care about sensibilities.

If the evidence shows AA killed her,
burned her, buried her, the following is true: It does not matter
which person arranged the meeting details. In the same vein, it does not matter if Kenzie was a SB, a waitress at IHOP, or a kindergarten
teacher. This is about the slaughter
of a young woman. Period!

 

[iamcurious9]

I agree 120 percent. I could have not said it better.

Amen!

 

[MsBetsy]

MOO younger people use DM (direct message) mode to communicate by texts within their preferred apps. Like private messaging here. So it is texts, but not through the phone service.

True, but since LE indicated that they discovered the texts after looking at the phone records, I'm assuming she felt comfortable enough with him to exchange phone numbers.
That and the fact that she was willing to meet him in the park at that hour, as well as the fact that she was texting with him the night before and at the airport tells me she was familiar with him. Imo

 

[MimosaMornings]

No way she was texting on a flight (esp. not Southwest). But all airplanes require a phone go off or on airplane mode. Still, it's possible if she didn't have a battery back-up that indeed, the phone was on low battery (she flew from LA to SFO to Salt Lake), so about 6 hours in transit. Most people take chargers though, and she would have had opportunities to charge in the terminal.

Why not on Southwest? iMessage and WhatsApp are free on Southwest. Can text during the majority of the flight.

Turn off or airplane mode your phone and then when they tell you portable devices are allowed, turn on your cell phone and connect to Southwest. Then text until you start to descend and shut off phone.

WiFi is available for $8 for the duration of the flight. Movies are free and several to choose from.

Southwest does not have charging outlets onboard.

Messaging is now free on Southwest Airlines – Business Traveller

 

[Gingerbread7]

I’m sorry if it seemed that I was implying that Kenzie did anything to deserve this. That’s very different than Kenzie having been willing to meet up with him that night.

Here’s an example of what I mean: say I go meet up with my friend John Doe to have a drink sometime after midnight. I am going to meet him of my own free will, because I know him and want to spend time with him.

Then John Doe kills me, and suddenly everyone online is discussing how he clearly had to have coerced me to meet him after midnight for a drink or forced me to do it somehow, or blackmailed me. When the reality is, I just met up with my friend to have a drink. It doesn’t mean I deserve to be killed, but it can also be a fact that I voluntarily met up with him and that doesn’t mean I did anything wrong.

I’m bothered by the constant assertions that Kenzie had to have been forced outside of her own will to meet up with AA that night. Maybe she was, but it is just as likely that she knew him and trusted him enough to go hang out with him. And if she did, there’s nothing wrong with her choice to do so. It only went wrong because of HIS actions once they were together.

I just want people to see that it can actually be just fine for a grown woman to choose to meet up with a man at any time of day, and that it doesn’t have to mean she was forced to be there, and it doesn’t have to mean she was dumb or trashy and made bad decisions. Does that make sense?

I want people to be more open minded, I guess. I think some people feel that if they believe Kenzie chose to meet up with him voluntarily then that means they are blaming the victim, but that’s not what it is at all. Both things can exist: she made a choice to meet him, and she is still blameless in the end result, because she had no way of knowing what evil awaited her.

Obviously no one knows yet what happened. Maybe he did coerce her somehow.

Great post. I think this, as well.