GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #7

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Thundar said:
Does rebuttle have a time limit? It appears prosecution is just trying to point out the misconceptions that defense just presented to the jury.
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Def and Pros each get an hour and a half. Pros took one hour, then def just took one and a half. Now rebuttal gets one half. imo
 
Ina Cognito said:
I watching a bit of Giselle's interview. I don't see why people see her at throwing the family under the bus, if she is being sincere then that's how her life was. Michele was a beautiful woman and by all appearances was a fantastic mother but I don;t think people need to believe she was a saint. Things do not appear to have been right in that family, for many reasons. I do not feel it is a huge jump to believe that, like many mothers, Michele may have not either believed her adopted daughter about improper touching or that she may have not wanted to know about it :( If this particular child was troubled that may have been an additional reason that Michele would question her statements. I'm keeping in mind that Michele forgave MMs forgery conviction early in their marriage and appeared to have accepted a number of mistreatments from him. We don;t know the dynamics that existed in that household. If Giselle is telling the truth how very sad that everyone may have left her side rather than believe Michele could possibly have done something not exactly "perfect." JMHO
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Also, Giselle did say Michele took her to a counselor. Even though Michele did not discuss this any further with her, I think that in itself was a brave move on Michele's part. What if Martin found out? I doubt she wanted to risk having Martin find out about any direct discussion between Michele and Giselle about his actions. It seemed Michele tiptoed around him all the time just to keep the peace. No, this was not your ideal reaction, but it beats out the actions of many others, which is to just sweep everything under the rug, or worse yet, disbelieve or blame the child.

Giselle seemed earnest and she said she wasn't sure why Michele took her to the counselor nor what Michele told the counselor. I didn't feel she was trying to throw Michele under the bus, but I did think she was confused by a lot that went on and a lot that didn't go on in that household. Despite everything, she did say she felt Martin caused Michele's death and that he controlled everything.
 
No smoking gun........but shell casings all around

shell casings all around marty

GREAT STATEMENT!!
 
On the previous thread, a poster brought up a significant point IMO that has not been touched on by the prosecution nor defense. The neighbor, Doug ?, the guy MM needed to get Michelle out of the tub testified that MM hit Michelle's chest a couple of times prior to his feeble attempt at CPR. If I understand this correctly, MM did a precordial thump, not once but several times.

A Precordial thump is only done in a witnessed arrest within 60 seconds or on a monitored patient in pulseless V Tach or vfib. It is no longer part of CPR protocol because patients sustain more injuries from it. It can actually cause the patient to go into asystole where the heart stops. Asystole I.e. cardiac arrest is a lethal heart rhythm. It can also break the sternum.

Hmmmmmm. I wonder..... JMV
 
Makes strong argument pointing out Dr Thompson confirms Alexis statement that Michelle is down to 1/2 pill to a total of two pills a day.
 
If I wasn't convinced before I am now that the defendant willfully killed his wife. The prosecution has done a really good job with this rebuttle. Not only pointing out the drugs but the things that defense said that were fudging the truth. Thank you again prosecutor!
 
Perkins comes across as much more believable than Spencer. He zeroes in on things that easy to follow, as opposed to the much more broad leaps we heard from Spencer. And instead of tossing around the dumb "everybody lied about everything" charge, he cherry-picks things Spencer said and says they are speculative, etc. This seems much easier for the average person to latch onto, and also make them think Spencer was fudging everything if they're convinced he was fudging some things.
 
I'm thinking it might be problematic for the State that they cannot provide any evidence that mm gave her the drugs, and that she did not take them herself. It helps that she seemed to be tapering of the drugs, but it is not impossible, theoretically, that she took some, got confused, and overdosed herself. enuff for reasonable doubt? Don't know, but for some doubt.
 
Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow 6m
A few jurors are starting to look a little weary... @fox13now #MartinMacNeill #MacNeilltrial
 
Hope4More said:
I'm thinking it might be problematic for the State that they cannot provide any evidence that mm gave her the drugs, and that she did not take them herself. It helps that she seemed to be tapering of the drugs, but it is not impossible, theoretically, that she took some, got confused, and overdosed herself. enuff for reasonable doubt? Don't know, but for some doubt.
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I agree with that concept, if it existed in a vacuum. All the other stuff is what would push me over the edge, towards guilt.

Ironically, I just got a notice for Salt Lake County jury duty. I'll probably get some lame, petty shoplifting trial.
 
Zuri said:
On the previous thread, a poster brought up a significant point IMO that has not been touched on by the prosecution nor defense. The neighbor, Doug ?, the guy MM needed to get Michelle out of the tub testified that MM hit Michelle's chest a couple of times prior to his feeble attempt at CPR. If I understand this correctly, MM did a precordial thump, not once but several times.

A Precordial thump is only done in a witnessed arrest within 60 seconds or on a monitored patient in pulseless V Tach or vfib. It is no longer part of CPR protocol because patients sustain more injuries from it. It can actually cause the patient to go into asystole where the heart stops. Asystole I.e. cardiac arrest is a lethal heart rhythm. It can also break the sternum.

Hmmmmmm. I wonder..... JMV
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Whoa. I imagine that possibility was discussed but decided couldn't be proven? Really interesting.
 
Regarding the credibility, or lack thereof, of the inmates. I hope they have put together the concept that while none of those witnesses may be very credible on their own, the fact that they all say the same things, despite coming from different/unrelated places, says a lot.

And just like that, he mentions it. Is there anything else you guys would like me to mindbeam his way?
 
This guy is so cute/handsome and so believable...very impressive. If attorney likeabilty is any factor the prosecution is in good shape.
 
This atty is putting the icing on the cake. I'm relieved he's looking so good. I think all reasonable doubt has been ruled out. I hope the jury agrees. Wonder how long they will deliberate? I think Judge was considering letting them deliberate Saturday?
 
Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow 4m
Jurors starting to shift uncomfortably in their seats. We're past lunch break and it's hot in the courtroom. @fox13now #MartinMacNeill
 
after hearing all of this and how well the prosecution tied it up I think this could be a quick verdict...I really think the case is way more compelling than I ever expected.
 
If the jury is getting restless, he needs to wrap it up pretty soon. He's gone on a pretty long time.
 
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