UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #3

[Texas Mist]

I think we can expect a media campaign by Mr. Scott Williams Esq. at this time in the game. Sorry, but I think we made up our minds way before you started with your own abuse and manipulation Mr. Williams....

Mr. Williams is getting his word in -- albeit with a spin


Meanwhile, police said investigators have discussed conducting a polygraph test of Josh Powell, but no such interview has occurred.

"He is not allowing us the opportunity to interview him at length in order to verify his statements and also to get more specifics," McLachlan said. "His statements are absolutely vague."

Josh Powell's attorney, Scott Williams, disputed allegations made that his client had been uncooperative. Josh Powell has spoken to police and provided a DNA sample this week, as did several other family members. Williams, a defense attorney who often defends high-profile clients, described the DNA testing as routine in such cases. (wouldn't wanna mention anything about a search warrant for the DNA, now would ya, Mr. Williams??)

Police have not sought to restrict Powell's movements by asking him to surrender a passport, because they don't have sufficient information to make that request, McLachlan said.



http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=8995247

 

[nursebeeme]

they will soon enough when further forensics get back... hey Josh! Take your last trip (or at least book it in effigy) to Europe or a cruise or something. Cops are on you and they will be back to GET YOU... Whether you are on a boat on the Nile or sailing a paper boat in your bathtub.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Dr Fessel - I am a convert to the church and because of that I probably have even a stronger testimony of the truths within the church. I also see the error that occurs (not within the top level leadership or within the policies) but on the individual level. I am sure the church is aware of it. They must get so many letters every year from people with broken hearts about things that have happened in their church lives.... *advertiser censored* is one of the biggest threats that the church is dealing with right now. Abuse probably closely follows that. There is evil every where. We should not close our eyes to the fact that evil always appears at first to be good. We need to recognize the evil (and not hide our heads under the sand) and confront it directly. The church is good. Very good. But we need to improve the safety of women and children and set up a way to systematically get rid of the bad, permanently. Not allow them to be forgiven over and over without any change of heart or behavior.

I understand the convert testimony it is powerful to members that grew up in the church. So tell me about the battle the church is having with the *advertiser censored*. Is this fight out in the open and might this have something to do with Susan and Josh's problems?

 

[Texas Mist]

I would sooo like to see vids of Josh's discussions w/ LE.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Ok I just have to say this. When I read the neighbor guys name that knew all about Susans and Josh's problems I cringed.....it was Peterson. LOL

:devil: That name is like a Voo-Doo curse LOL !!!!!

 

[harleysnana]

Snip by me
FORENSIC TRUCKS ARE BACK AT THEIR HOUSE AND HAVE TAKEN ITEMS OF INTEREST.

What type of stuff would they take?
Any ideas?

 

[omegagal]

I understand the convert testimony it is powerful to members that grew up in the church. So tell me about the battle the church is having with the *advertiser censored*. Is this fight out in the open and might this have something to do with Susan and Josh's problems?

Yes it is out in the open. They have spoken about their concerns during semi-annual conference talks for years and published articles about it in the Ensign (the LDS magazine). They also speak about it on the local level. And yes, it could have something to do with the mindset of Josh. It numbs the addicted person to feeling like women are really only sexual. There's a book out written by an LDS author, Kastleman, The Drug of the New Millennium which talks about how the brain actually changes in an addicted person. Very interesting stuff.

There is a somewhat attitude of "hide your head in the sand". This could never happen in my family. Especially Utah. Utah Mormons (as I mentioned in a previous thread) really hide the ugliness of their imperfect lives and strive to "appear" perfect. That also helps the psycopath because that "isolates" the woman. She won't tell....

Good for Susan for putting this out in the open!!! I only wish I could have known her in this life. I know we would have been wonderful friends....

I know there are support groups held for women in the church that have been effected by sexual addictions (run by LDS Family Services). There are also groups for men involved in these addictions. I have been told that approximately 30% of these cases also involve abuse. I have to absolutely applaud out loud the passion, dedication, professional experience and compassion these LDS counselors have that are dealing with this. I believe that they could be a GREAT HELP in getting the church to more closely and effectively deal with these men. Some men are truly repentant, some are manipulative, cunning psychopaths that use their religion as a mask to hind their sins behind. Those are the ones that never repent but are predators in the real sense of the word.

 

[hellolisakitty]

But just because the religion may have customs does not
mean all members follow them.
In this case and what has come out IMO Josh was far from
following what the LDS church believes in regards
to being a good husband/ father. That is why I don't see that
it matters.
IMO

I do wonder though... when they were in counseling... was it with their bishop or a licensed therapist? There is a difference... and many mormons will seek counseling with their bishop first. I know of more than one case where there was emotional abuse, some physical abuse (not that it matters if it is a little or a lot) and the bishop encouraged the women to try and work it out. The bishop did not make excuses for the husband or try and discount the claims - but they were encouraged to 'keep the family together' and 'do what was best for the children'.

One of those ladies was finally fed up with being told that over and over again (and nothing changing at home) and told her husband she wanted to go to a real marriage counselor (one with an actual degree)... 6 months later they were divorced - and that is what have happened way before that! The man was not attempting to change and was getting no real counseling in regards to trying to change. Every time it was about 'saving the family' and never really addressing the fact that he was saying horrible things to her and abusing her.

In that regards I think religion (in this instance the LDS church) does has something to do with it. IMHO.

 

[SusanB]

Yes, Josh may run but he cannot hide. I am very sure that LE is on him 24/7 so they can keep him in sight until enough evidence is accumulated to effect an arrest circumstantially, or a body is found. I agree with a prior post that he probably did a "rush" job - in other words, he just dumped her as soon as he could. I doubt if he was able to do much digging, since the weather was so bad (but he may have tried - hence the chapped hands).
My own personal concern, and I know that I keep saying it over and over, is Josh committing suicide/homicide with the boys. He is such a psycho/control freak, he may take the innocent children with him. I do not know if he has unsupervised visits. Even if LE were lurking in the shadows, it may be too late.
Now that the sun has come out and the temperature is better, hopefully two things: More people will be outside searching, and the snow will melt a little with increased exposure of the landscape.
But I also agree with the poster before, he may be losing it mentally, and is struggling with the implication of what he has done. Maybe the religion factor can come in handy - guilt and need for retribution tends to be a central focus in many religious doctrines.
OK, now hope for either a confession or a discovery tomorrow!:angel:

 

[hellolisakitty]

Yes it is out in the open. They have spoken about their concerns during semi-annual conference talks for years and published articles about it in the Ensign (the LDS magazine). They also speak about it on the local level.

There is a somewhat attitude of "hide your head in the sand". This could never happen in my family. Especially Utah. Utah Mormons (as I mentioned in a previous thread) really hide the ugliness of their imperfect lives and strive to "appear" perfect. That also helps the psycopath because that "isolates" the woman. She won't tell....

Good for Susan for putting this out in the open!!! I only wish I could have known her in this life. I know we would have been wonderful friends....

I know there are support groups held for women in the church that have been effected by sexual addictions (run by LDS Family Services). There are also groups for men involved in these addictions. I have been told that approximately 30% of these cases also involve abuse. I have to absolutely applaud out loud the passion, dedication, professional experience and compassion these LDS counselors have that are dealing with this. I believe that they could be a GREAT HELP in getting the church to more closely and effective deal with these men. Some men are truly repentant, some are manipulative, cunning psychopaths that use their religion as a mask to hind behind their sins. Those are the ones that never repent but are predators in the real sense of the word.

And not too long ago a report came out that showed Utah had the highest number of paid online *advertiser censored* subscriptions. It might very well be true, but many folks just laughed it off saying it just showed most Utahn's were to naive to know you can get it for free - so they figure the numbers might not be all that accurate.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...iser censored*-subscriptions-report-says.html

 

[Fairy1]

Wow. I am learning a lot about the LDS church. I have never known anyone practicing the religion. From what you are saying through your experience, now I get a better insight about this case. Of course, there are controlling men everywhere and within every religion, but the catch here is the emphasis not only on male superiority in a marriage, but also on the wife to grin and bear whatever the husband does. I am sure I am so generalizing this, but I mean in relation to being counseled by church members, and seeking help/comfort within the church. Susan probably was counseled to do her best to stick it out, and JP was supported by church members to do what he was doing.
Don't shoot me everyone, I don't mean they would approve of murder! It's just different from how I was raised, and I'm trying to grasp LDS doctrine.:waitasec:

I don't like to generalize - but I grew up with lots of LDS kids and have seen it first hand. In the case I mentioned earlier, these kids were only 19 at the time. WTH kind of upbringing did this boy have to be an abusive husband at that age? I'm not exagerating when I say you couldn't have met a sweeter girl. I was in school with her from the 7th grade on and I can't imagine anything she could have or would have done or said to make him hurt her. It broke my heart to know he was hitting her, but it hurt even more to know that her own family didn't believe or help her. She absolutely was their pride and joy.

 

[omegagal]

I do wonder though... when they were in counseling... was it with their bishop or a licensed therapist? There is a difference... and many mormons will seek counseling with their bishop first. I know of more than one case where there was emotional abuse, some physical abuse (not that it matters if it is a little or a lot) and the bishop encouraged the women to try and work it out. The bishop did not make excuses for the husband or try and discount the claims - but they were encouraged to 'keep the family together' and 'do what was best for the children'.

One of those ladies was finally fed up with being told that over and over again (and nothing changing at home) and told her husband she wanted to go to a real marriage counselor (one with an actual degree)... 6 months later they were divorced - and that is what have happened way before that! The man was not attempting to change and was getting no real counseling in regards to trying to change. Every time it was about 'saving the family' and never really addressing the fact that he was saying horrible things to her and abusing her.

In that regards I think religion (in this instance the LDS church) does has something to do with it. IMHO.

I was told by my bishop, who had knowledge of husband's previous "abusive control and power" in his previous marriage to try to make my marriage work.

I believe that Susan and Josh started in marital counseling and then moved to her private counseling only. Dr. Fessel, how do I bump that theory page back up here????

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I was told by my bishop, who had knowledge of husband's previous "abusive control and power" in his previous marriage to try to make my marriage work.

I believe that Susan and Josh started in marital counseling and then moved to her private counseling only. Dr. Fessel, how do I bump that theory page back up here????

You can just go back and copy the whole thing and post it here. That is legal to do.

 

[mayelf]

Anyone have the link handy of the interviews with Josh? I haven't seen them yet

 

[SuziQ]

O/T, Whoa.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9072052

4 found dead in West Jordan home

 

[Fairy1]

And not too long ago a report came out that showed Utah had the highest number of paid online *advertiser censored* subscriptions. It might very well be true, but many folks just laughed it off saying it just showed most Utahn's were to naive to know you can get it for free - so they figure the numbers might not be all that accurate.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...iser censored*-subscriptions-report-says.html

This is very interesting - along with the post earlier saying that Utah has the highest number of people on anti-depressants in the nation.

What we should remember in THIS case is not that Josh was not a regular attendee of his church, but that Susan was and she sought counseling regarding her marriage there. Surely no one - particularly Susan - believed Josh would murder her. But she obviously had some serious concerns and, it would seem, may not have been appropriately advised.

 

[hellolisakitty]

I was told by my bishop, who had knowledge of husband's previous "abusive control and power" in his previous marriage to try to make my marriage work.

I believe that Susan and Josh started in marital counseling and then move to her private counseling only. Dr. Fessel, how do I bump that theory page back up here????

Ugh. I guess we can only hope that the majority of the bishops out there would not do the same thing... especially when the guy has a pattern of abuse! That is just wrong. If anything you would think the soon-to-be wife would be warned or at least counseled beforehand of the known abuse.

Although very nice guys, I have had two bishops live on my block over the years. One was a mortgage broker (or something along those lines)... and the other was somewhat of a big wig at a Fortune 500 company. Again, very nice - but certainly did not hold a degree or anything close to that in order to counsel couples (or abused wives for that matter) in crisis.

Maybe someone that is a member can explain how one becomes a bishop and if there a protocol for when they get in over their head in something of this sort. Some might not follow it... but can they/should they be recommending couples to licensed therapists? I know personally the two gals I know where never told to seek help with outside resources...

 

[hellolisakitty]

O/T, Whoa.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9072052

4 found dead in West Jordan home

Oh no. Not too far from West Valley. Just the next suburb over.

 

[Vegas Bride]

Okay all Utah locals, I know you're gonna know what I mean when I say "The menu" lol.

I wish "Not Killing Your Wife" was on the menu!!

VB

 

[harleysnana]

I do wonder though... when they were in counseling... was it with their bishop or a licensed therapist? There is a difference... and many mormons will seek counseling with their bishop first. I know of more than one case where there was emotional abuse, some physical abuse (not that it matters if it is a little or a lot) and the bishop encouraged the women to try and work it out. The bishop did not make excuses for the husband or try and discount the claims - but they were encouraged to 'keep the family together' and 'do what was best for the children'.

One of those ladies was finally fed up with being told that over and over again (and nothing changing at home) and told her husband she wanted to go to a real marriage counselor (one with an actual degree)... 6 months later they were divorced - and that is what have happened way before that! The man was not attempting to change and was getting no real counseling in regards to trying to change. Every time it was about 'saving the family' and never really addressing the fact that he was saying horrible things to her and abusing her.

In that regards I think religion (in this instance the LDS church) does has something to do with it. IMHO.

I could not tell you what religion Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Drew
Peterson, Craig Stebic, or Brad Cooper are, or if they were counseled by
their Bishop, Priest, or private counselor, and IMO it doesn't matter.

Some Bishops, Priest, and private counselors may have suggested
for their wives to stick it out and work on their marriages too.

I just think it's sad that when other cases like this happen
we don't hash their religion ... it seems to only be a problem when they
are LDS.

A lot of people, in a lot of different religions have problems with abuse,
drugs, *advertiser censored* etc.
…. not just Mormons.

At this point we don’t even know if Josh was an active Mormon,
or if they even went to be counseled by their Bishop or anyone else
for that matter.

I just see another psychopath man who probably killed his wife.