UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[crocus]

I think she was so beaten down by Josh's father that she learned it was best to just keep her mouth shut. I bet she would have plenty to say if she felt completely safe from her ex-husband.

Well, I have no basis to relate to this in my life experience, I'm not Mormon/LDS and have never been divorced. I was raised as a staunch Catholic however. School, uniforms, nuns, mass twice a week, confession once a week, high mass once a week, and threats of purgatory.......lol. Been married for 21 years.

But, hell-o to the no that I would allow my ex have any power over me post divorce.

Does her silence have anything to do with the church? Really, I am just curious......

 

[AlexisFresca]

Nope. Not a fine line Fresca. First of all we judge actions vs people. We call wrong wrong. Responsibility needs to be accepted before all this talk of forgiveness and healing can even begin.

What JP has most likely done is not "stumble," but murder the mother of his children. It may already be too late for her family to ever bring Susan home to lay her to rest w a proper burial, or for her now motherless boys to ever say goodbye to their mother.

And until JP answers for that--it's not "reaching out" he needs. Under these circumstances, this treacherous, unruly deceiver needs the harshest rebuke possible--and then the full weight of our judicial system brought to bear if he's hoping at this point his life can even be spared.

I suggest we need to take a hard look at our society if we have to be fearful of "judging," too reluctant and timid to even call murder wrong. I have much empathy, compassion and forgiveness for those willing to admit to "stumbling," by owning their mistakes. But for those who believe they can snuff out life and remain instead #ellbent on lying, concealing, covering, deceiving, denying, excusing, blameshifting and bull$#!++ing their way out of consequences... I haven't one OUNCE of pity. This isn't "stumbling," a person doesn't just trip and fall and "oopsie I offed my wife, drove for days to dispose of her body where no one can ever find her, and I'm not gonna disclose a thing..." It's a lifelong pattern of narcissism and deception, and IMO he isn't just lying re what he did he's lying about WHO HE IS.

I haven't heard one IOTA of concern for his wife and the mother of his two boys. I haven't heard one HINT of remorse, or admission of guilt. ADMONISH THE UNRULY, ENCOURAGE THE FAINT, HELP THE WEAK... He is NOT weak or faint of heart, he is a pathological narcissist who preyed on a defenseless woman and mother and hopes to get away w it.

HE GETS NO SYMPATHY HERE.:snooty:

arrot:

For the first portion I bolded, I will repectfully disagree with that in part. I see people being judged because their actions are deemed incorrect or wrong by someone else.

Second bolded statement: Isn't all sin equal in God's eyes? Haven't we all heard that? Isn't all stumbling sin?

Third bolded statement: On the contrary, our society is very harsh and judgemental, along with unforgiving. People are doling out 'solutions' and unafraid to vocalize the best punishment for 'sins' committed. For example, how absurd is it to say that Charlie Sheen should lose his job and his show because he allegedly beat his wife? How ridiculous is that? If everyone who beat their spouses or committed other sins were deemed to be qualified to lose their jobs over it, what does that really solve? All we do is add someone else to the welfare payroll. I seriously feel some people do not see the idiocy and illogicalness in some of the things that they say.

There is a reason God said, 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. Are we saying we don't trust God to dole out the most proper punishment in his judgement of someone? Are we saying the Almighty is incompetent of doing so?

 

[crocus]

For the first portion I bolded, I will repectfully disagree with that in part. I see people being judged because their actions are deemed incorrect or wrong by someone else.

Second bolded statement: Isn't all sin equal in God's eyes? Haven't we all heard that? Isn't all stumbling sin?

Third bolded statement: On the contrary, our society is very harsh and judgemental, along with unforgiving. People are doling out 'solutions' and unafraid to vocalize the best punishment for 'sins' committed. For example, how absurd is it to say that Charlie Sheen should lose his job and his show because he allegedly beat his wife? How ridiculous is that? If everyone who beat their spouses or committed other sins were deemed to be qualified to lose their jobs over it, what does that really solve? All we do is add someone else to the welfare payroll. I seriously feel some people do not see the idiocy and illogicalness in some of the things that they say.

There is a reason God said, 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. Are we saying we don't trust God to dole out the most proper punishment in his judgement of someone? Are we saying the Almight is incompetent of doing so?

BBM

Really?

 

[DomCasual]

DomCasual, you are so in favor of helping Josh, but how about Susan? I mentioned my idea earlier. What do you think?

Well, first of all, I haven't helped Josh. In fact, I said that I probably wouldn't have helped him, if I was in his ward. I've also spoken negatively in nearly every post I've had about him in this thread. I would love to see a single post where I've said anything positive about him. I'm not his apologist. But I also think it's a little silly to talk of people helping move as if they are somehow condoning his actions.

Second of all, searching for Susan is not practical. There's a big difference between shoveling a neighbor's walk when they're in need, and putting your life on hold to wander around a desert, looking for someone you couldn't save anyway.

I didn't respond to your earlier post because I kind of assumed you were speaking tongue in cheek.

 

[AlexisFresca]

BBM

Really?

Are you asking, 'did someone really suggest that?' Or are you asking, 'Is that really a ridiculous thing to suggest?' To answer the first question, yes I have seen that posted elsewhere, and similar regarding Tiger Woods. And to add, regarding Tiger Woods, I have seen people say that he deserves to lose all visitation with his children.

 

[gwenabob]

Well, I have no basis to relate to this in my life experience, I'm not Mormon/LDS and have never been divorced. I was raised as a staunch Catholic however. School, uniforms, nuns, mass twice a week, confession once a week, high mass once a week, and threats of purgatory.......lol. Been married for 21 years.

But, hell-o to the no that I would allow my ex have any power over me post divorce.

Does her silence have anything to do with the church? Really, I am just curious......

Josh's father is not LDS either. But he is a controlling bully who bankrupted his ex in divorce court just because he could. Who knows what went on while they were married? Who knows what kind of threats he has made to her in the past?

I like to think I wouldn't let a man control me like that either. But we are not she.

It is also possible the police have asked her not to say anything, either.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Methinks WE are getting OT again.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Methinks WE are getting OT again.

Nah, I think your just trying to guilt me so I bring out my time out avatar! :wink:

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Seriously, where are you getting all of that? Because a few people went over and helped him move, they are accepting and forgiving murder?

There is nobody on any messageboard or news site - at least that I've read - that is any way doing anything but condemning him.

Are you asking, 'did someone really suggest that?' Or are you asking, 'Is that really a ridiculous thing to suggest?' To answer the first question, yes I have seen that posted elsewhere, and similar regarding Tiger Woods. And to add, regarding Tiger Woods, I have seen people say that he deserves to lose all visitation with his children.

what am i missing here? how does Tiger figure into this? better than what Josh has done by far, Elin will continue to walk this earth, and be a mother to her children. is it me? :waitasec:

i will say YES--by helping is enabling. just 'pretend' that you don't know/understand the truth of the matter? if "friends"/neighbors were actually helping him, then IMO they were enabling. that is UNLESS they just wanted him outta there the quicker, the better (or closest had another agenda inspired by LE). while aspiring to be Christ-like, that does not mean that we are. we just continually try to be. we are not omnipotent: and we DO know better than to smile, make hot choc/WITH marshmallows, and shake hands, {{hugs}} with wife/mother-murderers.

 

[crocus]

Well, first of all, I haven't helped Josh. In fact, I said that I probably wouldn't have helped him, if I was in his ward. I've also spoken negatively in nearly every post I've had about him in this thread. I would love to see a single post where I've said anything positive about him. I'm not his apologist. But I also think it's a little silly to talk of people helping move as if they are somehow condoning his actions.

Second of all, searching for Susan is not practical. There's a big difference between shoveling a neighbor's walk when they're in need, and putting your life on hold to wander around a desert, looking for someone you couldn't save anyway.

I didn't respond to your earlier post because I kind of assumed you were speaking tongue in cheek.

Searching for Susan isn't practical? I pray that you never have a loved one go missing. Listen, no matter what area is searched, it's another grid that can be marked off as searched. Every inch matters to the family.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Nah, I think your just trying to guilt me so I bring out my time out avatar! :wink:

that's it! :blushing:
can't wait to see it

 

[SuziQ]

Searching for Susan isn't practical? I pray that you never have a loved one go missing. Listen, no matter what area is searched, it's another grid that can be marked off as searched. Every inch matters to the family.

This family isn't asking for ground searches. I think that says alot. :waitasec:

If Susan was missed because she was covered in snow, what would be the point of marking of that grid?

 

[crocus]

Are you asking, 'did someone really suggest that?' Or are you asking, 'Is that really a ridiculous thing to suggest?' To answer the first question, yes I have seen that posted elsewhere, and similar regarding Tiger Woods. And to add, regarding Tiger Woods, I have seen people say that he deserves to lose all visitation with his children.

Mostly, really, your Charlie Sheen comment.
I am still trying to pick up my jaw from the floor.

 

[DomCasual]

Searching for Susan isn't practical? I pray that you never have a loved one go missing. Listen, no matter what area is searched, it's another grid that can be marked off as searched. Every inch matters to the family.

Wow.

I just don't know what to say to some of this.

What is practical is raising your kids, or being a good husband. That's my practical, my friend. If it was my neighbor, or my sister, then it might be different. But it's not. I spent two hours tonight helping my son with his homework. I sat through Finding Nemo for the twentieth time this evening with my little girl. That's practical. Maybe you and I have different priorities. Who knows? If Susan was in a cave somewhere, running out of food and water, then it might be a different story. But if it comes down to a choice of looking for a body some dumbass selfishly dumped in the desert somewhere, or helping my son with is long division - well, the world will be a better place with the long division.

 

[crocus]

This family isn't asking for ground searches. I think that says alot. :waitasec:

If Susan was missed because she was covered in snow, what would be the point of marking of that grid?

I guess the point would be that as the family of someone you loved who was missing, you would know that, no matter what, you were looking and could mark off areas searched.

 

[SuziQ]

I guess the point would be that as the family of someone you loved who was missing, you would know that, no matter what, you were looking and could mark off areas searched.

Well I think searches should be done to actually try to find people and not just make family and friends feel better. ETA:And did I miss something? Is Susan's family asking for searches?

 

[AlexisFresca]

what am i missing here? how does Tiger figure into this? better than what Josh has done by far, Elin will continue to walk this earth, and be a mother to her children. is it me? :waitasec:

i will say YES--by helping is enabling. just 'pretend' that you don't know/understand the truth of the matter? if "friends"/neighbors were actually helping him, then IMO they were enabling. that is UNLESS they just wanted him outta there the quicker, the better (or closest had another agenda inspired by LE). while aspiring to be Christ-like, that does not mean that we are. we just continually try to be. we are not omnipotent: and we DO know better than to smile, make hot choc/WITH marshmallows, and shake hands, {{hugs}} with wife/mother-murderers.

My apologies. I honestly was not trying to get off track, but to think of examples where people say things in judgement and Charlie SHeen was the most recent I could think of at the moment. Thats all.

I guess in part we will respectfully disagree; I think it would be hard to discern why people do the things they do, especially if we are far away from a situation and don't see things first hand.

If Josh's sons were there while he packed, I think it would have been bad judgement to ask him questions, not knowing if they overheard anything or not. I would hate the thought of this happening, and him getting scared and bringing harm to his sons because he feared them testifying against him or the information getting back to law enforcement. Maybe that was the only way they could think of honoring Susan, was to help pack up and see if they picked anything up from the kids via their behavior or other actions? Or they went to see if they could find something LE didn't? :shrugs:

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Wow.

I just don't know what to say to some of this.

What is practical is raising your kids, or being a good husband. That's my practical, my friend. If it was my neighbor, or my sister, then it might be different. But it's not. I spent two hours tonight helping my son with his homework. I sat through Finding Nemo for the twentieth time this evening with my little girl. That's practical. Maybe you and I have different priorities. Who knows? If Susan was in a cave somewhere, running out of food and water, then it might be a different story. But if it comes down to a choice of looking for a body some dumbass selfishly dumped in the desert somewhere, or helping my son with is long division - well, the world will be a better place with the long division.

Dom, to be honest had ??? about you in the beginning. But have come to care, and respect your thoughts. This one--not so much. Do you understand that a more than proportionate persons on this site have experienced same/crimes?

That's what started this. When son get his homework that is excellent. But, unless you wish to let it go at that (don't we all wish) If not, then don't return unless it's with compassion, caring, and wishing to solve or help those that we speak about. That's just wrong. Go back--teach as I do every night homework, but then you leave this? Maybe should let it go then. If I lived close as you do, I would be compelled to organize searches. If they can help Josh move, surely others in congregation/parish/ward can help Susan's word, or cries for help. If only to make her sons understand that she did not leave them willingly.

 

[DomCasual]

Dom, to be honest had ??? about you in the beginning. But have come to care, and respect your thoughts. This one--not so much. Do you understand that a more than proportionate persons on this site have experienced same/crimes?

That's what started this. When son get his homework that is excellent. But, unless you wish to let it go at that (don't we all wish. If not, then don't return unless it's with compassion, caring, and wishing to solve or help those that we speak about. That's just wrong. Go back--teach as I do every night homework, but then you leave this? Maybe should let it go then.

Sorry you feel that way.

I was a little surprised at people taking anything I said as that I was "SO concerned about Josh, but what about Susan?" That's just silly.

Look, there will always be a mob mentality in this type of thing. I get that. I'm proudly on the fringe of that mob. But if throwing out an occasional bit of perspective disingratiates one's self from the mob - well, then maybe the problem is with the mob.

Here are some facts:

1) No one knows within two hundred miles where Susan might be;

2) No one can give a single bit of evidence that she is alive;

3) The police, with all the inside, intimate information they have on the situation are not doing any searching;

4) Susan's family, as broken-hearted and desperate as they are, are not asking for any searching to be done.

Yet, with all that, my saying I don't think going out on my own and searching while neglecting my own family will serve any positive purpose is somehow disrespectful to those fine folks here who have lost loved ones?

I don't get that logic. I just don't see it. But let me apologize to whomever is offended by that. I certainly didn't mean any harm.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I really think that you are placing too much importance on a confession by JP. It's got to the point that it's been posted that anyone who helped JP pack up his, his wife's and his two boys' things but didn't confront him on why he won't go to the police station, they are "enablers". He has a constitutional right to not incriminate himself. There are U.S. soldiers dying on a regular basis to protect that fifth amendment right. Yes, the police always want a confession, but they never sit around criticizing family and friends of the suspect if they don't get one. They do sometimes bring a parent of the suspect into the police station to try and convince a suspect to confess. And yes, the Police are always grateful when friends and/or family convinces a POI to come in for questioning. But to vilify the neighbors and friends because they won't confront a very likely murderer, and to claim that it would be easy to do so - no, that's absurd. If they can't get a confession, then the police will simply focus their case on the evidence. If JP is tried and convicted of murder without ever confessing, he wouldn't be the first person in that position - not by a long shot.

(bbm) You've totally misconstrued my point. Sounding like SP, I've "villified neighbors and friends because they won't confront a very likely murderer?" How about just not help him leave, that works. How about maintain their distance from this "very likely murderer" vs dashing over w the Welcome Wagon to rush to this "very likely wife murderer's" aid. That works too. If it's "courage" they lack and no one in the church, or leadership or any of the people that were there assisting him wants to stop pretending there's no giant elephant in the room, maybe just stop coddling, catering to or colaboring w this "very likely murderer." Afterall, they shouldn't be there at all if they're so fearful of becoming his next "very likely victim!"

Because JP has lawyered up so can't be legally forced to incriminate himself, we should all move heaven and earth, bend over backward to do w/e will assist JP in leaving town... so he can comfortably, effortlessly stonewall police and avoid answering their questions... since afterall it is his Fifth Amendment Right? Right? Ugh, how legalistic is that!

TY Dwight.

Kiki, this is an example of what I was talking about earlier with judging and the fine line between judging and voicing an opinion. :waitasec: How many times have we heard it said that LE has asked people involved with a case, to keep a tight lip on info LE may have shared with them? And sometimes a citizen's involvement may actually make a case worse for law enforcement than it does helping them.

Look at the crucifiction Tara McDonald got during her pressers. Yet we have no idea of the coaching she got from her local LE regarding what should and shouldn't be revealed to the public during her pressers.

I'm sorry, you've totally lost me w Tara and Charlie... No really. N/M... obviously I'm neither deep nor Christlike enough.

arrot: