VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #2

[Roselvr]

I've never submitted someone before but if it's something I can do via email i am happy to do it... i mostly sleuth at work and i dont think my colleagues want to hear about this kind of stuff just point me in the right direction!

Not sure who submits for GD; but if someone submits Kenley; they need info to rule out; I'd be happy to give his sisters contact info.

 

[Classito]

i think he could be excluded because he is too tall. also there was no mention of previous fractures and AFAIK, there wasnt damage to jason's hands or ankles, so the ME would have been easily able to see that. i am not sure how consistently that stuff is included on pages though...

I'm confused...You think Jeffrey could be excluded due to 2 inches off on the height....but would submit a match with a different eye color...

Jeffrey was off finding himself. He was a vegetarian, hiker, volunteer, camper, traveler...wore tie dye...hippie like lifestyle..The age, weight, time, eye color, hair style, hair color, and lifestyle match. As well, as can be seen in the first image posted, he wore what looks to be macrame/bead type necklace...

No clue as to actual damage Jason Doe had ..Other than 'Not recognizable - Traumatic injuries'...no exact details were given...I imagine there is more we do not know...and probably will not know..

Classito

 

[bcf]

Here (https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/601) is Jeff Zoltowski's NamUs profile, and it says that a sample of DNA was submitted and tests were completed. So can he be considered ruled out?

 

[Jerri Blank]

I'm confused...You think Jeffrey could be excluded due to 2 inches off on the height....but would submit a match with a different eye color...

Jeffrey was off finding himself. He was a vegetarian, hiker, volunteer, camper, traveler...wore tie dye...hippie like lifestyle..The age, weight, time, eye color, hair style, hair color, and lifestyle match. As well, as can be seen in the first image posted, he wore what looks to be macrame/bead type necklace...

No clue as to actual damage Jason Doe had ..Other than 'Not recognizable - Traumatic injuries'...no exact details were given...I imagine there is more we do not know...and probably will not know..

Classito

i think you are confused, yes the difference in height is actually closer to 4-5" (DoeNetwork says Jason is 5'7, NamUs says 5'8). jeff is 6'0. to ME it seems like a large enough discrepancy. that coupled with no report of what would have been identifying features (ie prior breaks) makes me feel that they are probably not that same person.

still, if you read my whole reply you would see that i questioned whether or not things like previous breaks/fractures are consistently listed on NamUs. i see that info listed quite often, and have seen it used to rule out possibles in other UID cases... but i am not an expert on any of this (none of us are!), so i pointed it out for discussion.

tbh, i did not notice that Kenley and JD had different eye colors. in the pictures, kenley's eyes look very brown to me. that is my error, but just as you may argue that 2", or 4-5", doesnt equal exclusion, I would argue that when it comes to eyes, there are often people with hazel eyes who could be classified as either brown or green, depending on the person being asked. case in point, my uncle has hazel eyes - my grandmother calls them hazel, his girlfriend calls them green and he himself says brown or hazel (this was a topic of much debate at our last holiday dinner... interesting stuff, i know :floorlaugh

if you feel differently than i do, that is absolutely fine - no need to be upset! - please feel free to pursue that line of thought and submit him. my hope is that we are all here because we want to see this young man get his name back. i dont care who ends up being right about it as long as eventually someone is!

 

[MysticJynx]

i think you are confused, yes the difference in height is actually closer to 4-5" (DoeNetwork says Jason is 5'7, NamUs says 5'8). jeff is 6'0. to ME it seems like a large enough discrepancy. that coupled with no report of what would have been identifying features (ie prior breaks) makes me feel that they are probably not that same person.

Here is the only problem I have with excluding someone by the height. In this case. The very first flyer past out about Doe, he was listed between 5-8 and 5-10. On top of that he was so badly damaged they had to do a facial reconstruction. Why could they not pin point this persons height? If they were sure of his height they would have just posted it as 5'8". To me that says that other bones in his body may have been crushed. The spine maybe having a few disks crushed upon each other making him shorter. Then there is the other possibility of the person being reported as missing by family and friends are estimating the missing persons height. So on that note. Jeff's family said 6 foot, I'd have to wonder when was the last time he was measured by his family and friends, Could this too have been an estimate? Since DOES height was originally an estimate and was obviously severely injured, I think to rule out anyone based on the height alone is a mistake. But that is just my opinion. Why not just rule them out with DNA if it is available?

And just a thought about the NamUs site. Why don't they put the ruled out Unidentified persons on the missing persons pages too?

 

[Classito]

And just a thought about the NamUs site. Why don't they put the ruled out Unidentified persons on the missing persons pages too?

They should...No doubt it would save some time..


Classito

 

[zapped]

Faint veining pattern over the right upper arm resembling a faint tattoo. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6095

Tried to make it more visible for everyone to see. And wonder if the markings could be the fainting of permanent marker?

There are comments and information where I found this posted on the Grateful Doe Facebook site. https://www.facebook.com/GratefulDo...0.1396416837./442425892497703/?type=3&theater. There are ideas of what it could be. I have no idea.

Any Ideas?

Don't know if freckles count but I notice he has one in the middle of his shoulder too.

It looks likes a poor attempt at a homemade tattoo.My son has a similar line on his hand where he tried to tattoo himself using a needle and rubbed ink into it. It leaves that same spotty appearance and color.

 

[astridxx]

What if it's just a vein? I have a vein on my thigh that spells the word JEW.


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[Cyan]

Faint veining pattern over the right upper arm resembling a faint tattoo. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6095

Tried to make it more visible for everyone to see. And wonder if the markings could be the fainting of permanent marker?

There are comments and information where I found this posted on the Grateful Doe Facebook site. https://www.facebook.com/GratefulDo...0.1396416837./442425892497703/?type=3&theater. There are ideas of what it could be. I have no idea.

Any Ideas?

Don't know if freckles count but I notice he has one in the middle of his shoulder too.

It looks likes a poor attempt at a homemade tattoo.My son has a similar line on his hand where he tried to tattoo himself using a needle and rubbed ink into it. It leaves that same spotty appearance and color.

I hadn't seen this photograph until today.. Nor the photo of his shoes. Regarding the "veining"... I don't think it was a "jail" style tatt done with pen/needle/thread. I believe that this was a face of some sort, drawn on with a less permanent ink... perhaps something like henna?... or permanent marker. I believe that the mark was a drawing of a face of somesort.. a GD bear.. or an exaggerated cartoon style face of maybe Buddha? An "African Queen." I'm reaching a bit, but idk.. that outline makes me think of the art style of the Fat Albert cartoons from when I was a kid.

 

[dotr]

Just throwing this one out there, sorry if already been posted ,drummer @ 2:30 and male to his left, our right..



Grateful Dead parking lot Las Vegas 1994 - YouTube

 

[dotr]

Body never found but declared dead, sorry if previously posted..


Richey Edwards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[killarney rose]

Body never found but declared dead, sorry if previously posted..


Richey Edwards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless LE is withholding information about the scars from harming himself, I think we can discount him. If not for that I would say it could be worth checking into.

 

[Roselvr]

Just throwing this one out there, sorry if already been posted ,drummer @ 2:30 and male to his left, our right..



Grateful Dead parking lot Las Vegas 1994 - YouTube

Print screen

 

[MysteryMaven]

Hope I'm doing this right. I don't know how to bring over a post from another thread.
Poster Jojomomto3 pointed out the resemblance between Jason Jack Simmons and Grateful Dead Fan.
UT UT - Jack Jason Simmons, 24, Salt Lake City, 1994 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Red hair, "Jason", last seen in 1994.
Simmons eye color is listed as brown/blue (not sure how to interpret that)

 

[MysteryMaven]

Ok, Namus lists Simmons as a rule out. Darn. The resemblance is striking. Oh well.

 

[ssnva1]

Print screen

This gave me chills throughout my entire body. Creepy.

 

[killarney rose]

As an example of how a picture of a perfect stranger can look like someone you know, if someone told me the picture of this drummer was my nephew, I would never doubt them. In the picture this guy looks like him. And nephew plays drums.

So we have the guy off to the side that looks like our doe along with the Jason Jack Simmons fellow looking like him. So frustrating!

 

[bluecanary]

"Jason's" story is one of those (like "Lyle Stevik" Doe of Washington, and "Cali" Doe of New York) that has always fascinated me.

I've seen conflicting reports that the note from Caroline O. and Caroline T. was found either in Jason's pocket or nearby. I'm inclined to believe the report that it was found nearby, not in his pocket, which means that it's entirely possible that the note is a dead end and is not related to Jason at all.

If the note did in fact belong to Jason, I'm curious as to why the Carolines would provide a number if they didn't want him to call them. The wording of the note makes it sound as though they were planning on meeting up with him again - "See you later" makes it sound as though they are in fact planning to see him soon, rather than "Nice meeting you" or something of the like, which is what I'd expect to see of chance acquaintances who met at the concert, for instance, and weren't planning to meet up in the future.

It's a shame that Jason's gone unidentified for all these years. He must have someone, somewhere - a parent, sibling, aunt, uncle, cousin, friend, even an old teacher who misses him and wonders what happened to him.

Also, I'm wondering if the artist got the reconstruction wrong. I've known people who died in accidents and their families chose to have an open casket - the person in the casket bore little resemblance to the living person. It could be that people who are missing a loved one have been looking at the reconstruction and decided that he doesn't look enough like their loved one to merit their contacting LE about it. The reconstruction was based on the flesh and hair and (not to be too graphic) soft tissue that was still present when he was found, but due to the trauma of the accident, the artist could only make an educated guess as to what Jason looked like when he was alive. I've seen artists do reconstructions on skulls where they measure average tissue depth, etc., to create the face. By this time, Jason's remains would be skeletal - wherever his final resting place is these days, would it be worth it to exhume him and do a new reconstruction? Of course, this would be costly, and with no family to foot the bill, I'm guessing this is very unlikely to happen.

 

[cvillemegan]

He was cremated, unfortunately.

I agree that the reconstruction may be very off. Also, I think it looks nothing like the earlier drawings done of him. And his former classmates, teachers, co-workers, etc., may have last seen him with short hair, different colored hair, or facial hair. They've had 20 years to forget what he looks like, anyway. I think if he is ID'd it will be through a missing persons report match or a stranger-than-fiction situation with a relative, not someone saying "Oh wow, he was in my math class in 1993!" Just my opinion.

 

[Roselvr]

He was cremated, unfortunately.

I agree that the reconstruction may be very off. Also, I think it looks nothing like the earlier drawings done of him. And his former classmates, teachers, co-workers, etc., may have last seen him with short hair, different colored hair, or facial hair. They've had 20 years to forget what he looks like, anyway. I think if he is ID'd it will be through a missing persons report match or a stranger-than-fiction situation with a relative, not someone saying "Oh wow, he was in my math class in 1993!" Just my opinion.

I think that between pages like the Grateful Doe FB page and event as well as my friend & I continue to share him on our FB page Never Forget Me; that someone will see his face & hopefully recognize him. My friend also constantly shares various UP's in FB groups.