VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #7

[Waddles]

I've been trying to keep up with these threads, but they're moving way too fast for me! So I apologize if anything I say or ask is redundant.

I'm local and participated in the searches yesterday. I don't think about how densely wooded even parts of UVA can be until I participate in these searches. Our area was right on the edge of the UVA campus, and between dense ground cover and thick foliage, slopes that were impossible to walk and water, I feel we could easily have missed clues.

We were told to look for Hannah's sequined shirt (which I have heard different descriptions of even from law enforcement, some say it was silver with black mesh cutouts and others say black), black pants, white shoes, and iPhone 5s with a pink case. No jewelry description was given, although I think almost any young woman going out at night is at least wearing earrings. My group talked about the importance of the sequined shirt and looking for sequins catching the light.

I'm very impressed with how organized the search was and LE's response to this in general.

I keep thinking about what Hannah could have been doing on the Downtown Mall. On one hand, I have a really hard time believing she was lost or walked the wrong way for that long. She seems to be moving with so much purpose in the videos, like she is meeting someone and running late. I know a lot of UVA students are unfamiliar with Cville outside of the Corner and the UVA campus, but we know her phone still had some battery at that point, and she could have pulled up a map on her phone at any time. Plus, there's a lot of signage on the mall that IDs where you are, with maps, etc.

On the other hand, if she intended to go to the mall all along, why take such a roundabout way? Why not walk straight up West Main? Was she trying to avoid running into people she knows? Was she looking for someone who she thought might be at McGrady's? Was she texting with someone who first said he/she was at McGrady's, and then when she got there, he/she said, "Oh, I left, I'm on the mall now"?

Finally, has there been any explanation as to why police initially thought they were looking for a guy with short hair who is not in the videos? I know that description came from WG. So is it thought that WG intentionally lied or was actually talking about JM but had a bad memory of his appearance?

Hi there are pictures of the shirt, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=856356884384073&set=pcb.10152292546151576&type=1&theater

 

[otto]

Have LE said that he "refuses to cooperate" ? They said they want to talk to him. Maybe he has an attorney who has advised him to clam up? Or, maybe he has talked to LE since Friday, and we just don't know about it??? JMO

Imagine if everyone that saw Hannah, or had surveillance of her, insisted on having a lawyer prior to giving information to police. What kind of crazy world would that be?

 

[Z&BsMommy]

It might just be me, but it seems as if your agenda is at odds with the very reason this website was started. This isnt a site about social injustice or racial inequality.

Its a site started to help find missing people.

We owe it to Hannah and every other missing person out there to scrutinize and nitpick every little detail of their disappearance, the people they associated with and a myriad of other factors in the hopes that we can help them find their way home.

Sorry if that somehow offends your sensibilities but Imo this is NOT the thread to discuss such issues as all it does is serve to distract and inflame.

Mods can we PLEASE keep this kind of talk out of the discussion and focus on Hannah?

We have political and outside threads where people can discuss race to their hearts content all day long but this is NOT the appropriate place for it.

Thanks button not enough!

 

[Waddles]

From this information I've read, she was heading to a second party, made a wrong turn, got mixed up about Preston and Main, ended up at the mall, told friends that she was lost, asked someone to come and get her, then she met JM, and that's pretty much where the trail ends.

didn't she meet him before the text message? time line seems to indicate the text message is after the initial encounter with him, or did she text before 1am too saying she was lost?

 

[Claudia]

Forgive me if this has been posted before as I have not been able to keep up-but-if the POI was involved with Morgan Harrington they do have DNA to compare for her case so I suspect that would be one reason LE feel secure in identifying him as a POI.(if dna was identified that is) IF that is the case, we would not know yet. This is just my opinion only.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dna-links-abduction-morgan-harrington/story?id=12080850

If they have the POI's DNA (which I don't believe they do) and it matched the DNA from the sexual assault and MH's case, he wouldn't be a POI, he'd be in jail.

 

[bessie]

Imagine if everyone that saw Hannah, or had surveillance of her, insisted on having a lawyer prior to giving information to police. What kind of crazy world would that be?

Respectfully, if LE released surveillance video depicting my image in association with a possible felony, served search warrants on my vehicle and residence, then subsequently named me as a POI, I'd lawyer up in a heartbeat. It's not a reflection on the subject, only prudent, IMHO.

 

[razzledazzle]

Yes. Not judging but I was wondering why friends didn't follow up on the request to help her find her way...I suppose if they were drinking they might not have gone back out... or sleeping and didnt get message until morning... hindsight is 20/20 and I know teenagers will exhaust all other means before contacting parents. This case saddens me so much. Come on Hannah.... thinking positive!

The 1:06 text was mentioned first in the media, where she told friends that she was lost and asked someone to come and get her. Shortly after telling friends that she's lost, JM swoops in, puts his arm around her, and walks with her. They go to Tempo together, where he buys alcohol. The 1:20 text seems to be where she claims that she is at 14th and Wertland, and still lost. What doesn't make sense about that is that she should still be in the area of Tempo at that time (if she was at or around Tempo for about 15 minutes), and 14th/Wertland is the approximate location of her apartment. We don't know where she was at the time of that text.

One possibility is that she got into the car with JM, that he already knew where she wanted to go, she was immediately injured or disabled by him, he sent the text to throw off her friends and prevent them from looking for her, and then he left the city.

 

[lateott]

I am not sure if you're are trolling or whatever, but continually bringing up the race factor is not helping to keep the focus on where it matters, Hannah. I couldn't live with myself if I had withheld information that could help save someone! There is no excuse good enough.. imo.

Are you thinking what you would do? Or are you imagining what he is thinking?

From JMs perspective, if he is innocent, they already took his car, ransacked his house, drove him from it, accused him of driving away with her (and therefore being responsible for her being missing.) All this without him saying a word. What if he thinks it could get worse from here?

I don't think clamming up is the ethical thing to do, but I can sure understand it!

 

[ptandj]

Have LE said that he "refuses to cooperate" ? They said they want to talk to him. Maybe he has an attorney who has advised him to clam up? Or, maybe he has talked to LE since Friday, and we just don't know about it??? JMO

I agree, we don't know if he has talked to LE since the last press conference or not.

 

[mirv22]

I'm way behind, but she thought she was going one direction on Main, when in fact she was going the opposite direction on Preston. Arrows show direction she was moving, or thought she was moving.

This is not an accurate map.

 

[Stones]

From what I've read about inaccurate eye witness testimony, I could understand the black jeans mistake if HG and JW were walking together since he was in all white and her pants were dark (and also since his legs were showing, the white could just look like a long shirt and his skin is dark). I can't understand the hair thing unless LE was trying to throw off who they were actually looking for or...simply WG has some sort of paradigm in his head such that his brain processes dreads/braids the same as a shaved head since they are both common styles for african americans.

 

[2Hope4]

GRAPHIC....DON'T READ IF GRAPHIC OFFENDS!!!!!!!






A few days ago, my daughter noticed blood on one of my potbelly piglets, but it ran and hid when she tried to catch him. Less than 24hrs later, we found him hiding under a building. He is alive, but badly injured from some animal attack. Possibly a dog. At any rate, in that short period of time, maggots had infested every single wound he has. I'm talking millions of maggots, again, still alive and fresh wounds!!! No doubt had we not found him, within another day he would have died.

I mention this because I live about 2hrs give or take from Charlottesville, so basically the same weather. It's been a week since Hannah was seen. The amount of decomp, IMO, would be vast, and quickly.

 

[bakerlady]

According to the video Hannah Approached McGrady's from Preston, crossed Grady, approached the doorman, and then left the bar headed in the same direction from which she came, on Preston.

She must have done quite a bit of walking after leaving the party to get to Preston street. She could have traveled a much more efficient route. Or maybe she stopped somewhere else between 11:50 and 12:46.

 

[Emaa]

Earlier today (I think) someone posted a .pdf file showing Jesse Matthew as the asst varsity fb coach-I can't find that now but it was a great list of all sports at TCS. I wanted to look to see if Hannah possibly did something with their softball team since she played in high school. Can anyone else find that? Could be how they knew each other which in my opinion would be way more plausible than "he was her drug dealer" and other comments made. IMO-they did not know each other before the encounter on the mall.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/09/...disappearance-of-uva-sophomore-hannah-graham/

Cooper: Do you know ... did they know each other? Do you have anything, know anything about any kind of connection they may have had or may not have had?

Longo: We're not aware of any pre-existing relationship or a connection that the two of them may have had.

 

[otto]

This is not an accurate map.

How would you improve it?

 

[Stones]

Respectfully, if LE released surveillance video depicting my image in association with a possible felony, served search warrants on my vehicle and residence, then subsequently named me as a POI, I'd lawyer up in a heartbeat. It's not a reflection on the subject, only prudent, IMHO.

Getting a lawyer wouldn't cross my mind one bit. I'd gladly share everything I knew because I'd want to help and the sooner they were off me, they could focus on the finding the missing person or the guilty party.

 

[bessie]

The thread is open again for posting. Tread lightly. The discussion is moving far too fast for mods to stop and send warnings in pm's. Therefore, TO's will be issued without further notice.

If you don't know the rules, I suggest you start reading now.

Websleuths Rules, Etquette & Information
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*This message is for the benefit of everyone, and for no one in particular.

 

[sophiebelle]

Not sure if the POI has talked to LE or not, but if you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Look at all the people who have spent the weekend looking for Hannah. Many have never heard of her before this. Then we have someone who has info, and to my knowledge has not told what he knows. That's a shame. I think with all eyes on this case, he would be treated more fairly than someone who is quietly charged/set up and convicted. I think many of those unfairly convicted people were done so before forensics became so prevalent. Not all, but many. Just my personal thoughts.

 

[bakerlady]

She is seen at McGrady's at 12:46AM. It's a distance of 0.5 miles as the crow flies. She must have been lost.

Lost for a whole hour? You would think she would have called a friend in that time to ask for directions/help.

 

[lateott]

"Van Dyck said that Graham had an off-campus apartment for just two weeks and did not yet know her way around the winding maze of streets. “I still get lost when I go over there,” Van Dyck said.

From surveillance video police have found, it appears that Graham simply was walking in the wrong direction while trying to meet up with friends. Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.
"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

Yeah, I have seen all that.

I really think she knew she was at McGrady's when she was there, and she knew she was at the Downtown mall when she was there.

The other is a news story just conflating bits and pieces and trying to spin a narrative.

VD is wrong in his speculative statement. She knows her way around her apartment and around campus. She is a runner. She runs away from her apartment, probably in different directions, and then she runs back to it. Runners are very good at finding their way back, even when visiting new places. Because a cop gets lost there doesn't mean she gets lost there.

I think she may have been lost at certain intermediate points in between her apartment and McGrady's, or by the Shell station. But the media (and maybe LE) is really conflating the lost and disoriented thing.

She wasn't lost all night.