GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

[Schmaley]

I am not a fan of eating crow here but it looks like I must. This makes me sick. I always like to give the benefit of the doubt to parents simply because I am one. I have days that are hard. So hard. So hard and long and I can barely get through them. I have days where I NEED a break. But there is a difference between abuse and just plain being worn out. I am so sorry for Noah. Now more than ever. To be killed at the hands of his parents is an astonishingly cruel fate.

 

[ANonyMs]

I also believe "local forces" they were talking about earlier meant CPS and local LE, because he said Noah was known well by them.

When did he say Noah was well known by them? Well known by CPS? Did I miss that in this presser or previously?

 

[atthelake]

Twitter updates right now flooding.... FYI

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23NoahThomas&src=tyah

 

[gitana1]

What if someone went to sleep, and had left prescription drugs accessible to a child, or illegal drugs/alcohol or even household cleaning products like bleach, which a child consumed and died as a result of? Would that count as willful behaviours, or does it have to be absolutely deliberate harm?

It depends. If they knew they had left those substances there, and that they were accessible to the child and that they were doing something illegal, for example, then yes, it's willful. Willful doesn't have to be "deliberate harm" but it has to be some sort of intentional act. That's the difference.

Here's what I quoted before regarding the definition of willful as it applies to child neglect cases: "Willful" generally means an act done with a bad purpose, without justifiable excuse, or without ground for believing it is lawful. The term denotes "'an act which is intentional, or knowing, or voluntary, as distinguished from accidental.'" The terms "bad purpose" or "without justifiable excuse," while facially unspecific, necessarily imply knowledge that particular conduct will likely result in injury or illegality. http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0148982.txt

So there are two Virginia appellate cases that illustrate when an act is considered "willful" and when it is not and thus, when a parent may be charged with child neglect. The first is the one I cited above. In that case, a mother left her napping 2 and four year old kids in her closed apartment, while she went to a nearby neighbor's home in the building to socialize for 15 to 20 minutes. She had left a burner on after lighting her cigarette with it on the way out. As a result, there was a fire and her children were injured with smoke inhalation.

In that case, her conduct was not found to have been willful. Thus, not child neglect.

In the second case, a mother put her almost three year old and 10 month old to bed in the house and went out all night, drinking. The kids were not left alone, it appears, but were with her boyfriend. She came home around 5:30 a.m. and went to sleep. Her boyfriend left the house around 7:00 a.m. and when he was leaving, the mother awakened and gave the kids food. She then passed out on the couch with the baby playing on the floor in front of her and the older child in her room.

Around noon, the boyfriend returned. He found the mother still passed out on the couch but with the older child watching t.v. He found the baby submerged in bathtub with clothing on top of him, dead. The 4 year old had placed him in a full bath and covered him with clothes.

The mom had known that her older child, Patricia, was very jealous of the baby and had tried to harm him several times before. The mom had been warned about not leaving the baby alone with her older child:

Prior to the fatal incident, Patricia had demonstrated jealousy and extremely dangerous aggressiveness toward Joshua. She had hit him, pushed him, choked him, and attempted to smother him. Several days earlier, Patricia had pulled Joshua into the bathtub with her. On that occasion, Barrett acknowledged that it was fortunate that she was there to save Joshua. Barrett had acknowledged before the fatal incident that there was something wrong with Patricia's attitude and behavior toward Joshua. She had been warned by others that the children required close supervision. She knew that Patricia could put Joshua in the tub and that she could run the water. The serious and likely hazard of leaving the children unsupervised was plainly foreseeable. Yet, Barrett did not place Joshua in his crib, but left him, without supervision, where he was accessible to Patricia. http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0833991.txt

The mom in that case was properly found guilty of child neglect however, her conviction was overturned on other grounds (failure to instruct the jury as to 'willful", for one).

Can you all see the difference? Prior knowledge that something dangerous is likely to happen, drug and or alcohol use, plain and callous disregard for the safety of the child, these are factors that go into determining whether an act or omission was "willful".

For that reason, in cases where kids are left in hot cars, if the parent is partying in a bar, for example, and left there kid in the car, they are going to be charged with neglect for sure, where it is questionable otherwise.

I think if we look further at hot car deaths, the analogy to this case would be a parent is IN the car with the child, strapped in. He or she decides to take a short nap, in the car with the child, not due to drugs or alcohol, but exhaustion. The baby dies either from getting out of the car seat of vehicle and facing some harm or heat exhaustion.

That would not be child neglect.

 

[courtneyb]

I hate that so much time was wasted on the napping issue.. because I don't think, and never did think Mom was napping.

 

[ANonyMs]

Sad.Did they hide his body?

Did not say at all.

 

[toevlugsoord]

So very sad. And for that poor baby to have signs of abuse already! That would mean signs of past broken bones? Current bruises? Something else?

 

[Meemaw12]

This means it didn't happen Sunday morning, because Paul was suppose to be at work.

I bet LE is hoping one parent will turn on other to get to truth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YidArmyRach]

Ok. Well, now things are different. I am willing to bet there's still more to this than just mom sleeping though.

I don't believe mum ever was sleeping, and I never did. Anyone who admits to a 3 hour sleep with a 5 year old and a baby present is actually covering up something much worse, in my opinion. What was so bad, that saying you went to bed for 3 hours makes you look better?

JMO.

 

[winterrose]

I thought it was interesting that relatives emphasized that they were good parents. That should be automatic

I read people's faces and turn the sound down, I read something else in their faces that didn't match their words. Jason called it later, he just didn't say who he thought did it. Also, I didn't see Paul's sisters at the funeral yesterday. She stopped posting basically after Noah was found and that presser. I think they knew something wasn't right.

 

[atthelake]

HelpSaveTheNextGirl ‏@SaveTheNextGirl 2m2 minutes ago

Both parents of #NoahThomas were arrested today for felony child abuse and neglect of both their children No bond Waiting on autopsy results

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But not arrested for murder? (Can't watch the presser, right now) Does that mean he fell in accidentally?

I think that is what they are trying to determine. Once the autopsy report is finalized I think their charges will be upgraded to murder.

I wouldn't be surprised if they both had a hand in it and put Noah in there after they abused and killed him.

I am so furious! I hope both of them rot in hell!

How? How? Could they do this to this precious gift from God? I just don't understand evil and I never will.

Thank goodness the little baby was taken away.

imo

 

[JLSChook]

Now, I can finally say that it was posted on the Noah FB page a while back that the baby was removed from the home. A lot of those local "rumors" have turned out to be true.

Funny thing is, I got quite nasty with the poster of the above (now) fact and asked her to prove it or shut it. Oops.

 

[strawb93]

Did I hear him correct that it wasn't a call or tip that lead them to drain the septic tank?

 

[smeck]

I hate that so much time was wasted on the napping issue.. because I don't think, and never did think Mom was napping.

Totally agree courtneyb......just a way to distract from the truth of what happened

 

[Schmaley]

I hate that so much time was wasted on the napping issue.. because I don't think, and never did think Mom was napping.

Ha! But that is what was told. That is what I believed. And I stand by that it is okay to nap if you are a mom. However, abuse and neglect IS NOT okay. I am glad we have more info now. The speculation is what kills me.

 

[jbennett]

There are no words. I will never understand why people can't look at their children, their beautiful blessings from God, and do everything they can to love them and make sure they are protected. I don't even know what to say because I was hoping so very much that this would not be the case. Poor sweet Noah. May justice be served in your honor, although it is hard to imagine any justice coming from this event.

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

He also said that they didn't search the septic tank as a result of a tip. Now I really feel like they should have done that sooner.

I agree that once that autopsy comes in, the charges are going to be upped to murder. Are there charges they can file for putting Noah in a septic tank? That's an incredibly horrible thing to do.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I knew from what Angel had told me, that those kids were NOT being taken care of. Can I say that now?

Absolutely heartbreaking.

CourtneyB - I commend you for standing your ground. I bowed out of the discussions because I hate confrontation. I really admire you for not being intimidated. I knew you knew what you were talking about and I have appreciated all you have done to help bring information forward. Very sad day here, but I am not surprised. RIP Beautiful Noah

 

[lillybell]

Omg!
I am shaking here!
Arrested both parents too!