Victim - Melissa Barthelemy

[Robert Anderson]

I've posted this several times. Once more won't hurt.

All four of the LISK victims deviated from their norm. All four took added risks the nights of their disappearance.

People can argue about any particular victim's appetite for risk but taken as a whole I think it's an important clue. And no, waving imaginary money to the victims didn't magically make them compliant. They were all seasoned professionals well aware of the dangers of the internet.

LISK is careful and crafty. He plans.

 

[twocuriouscats]

Hi Robert, then why don't you give one example of one of the four girls doing something outside their well defined safety methods

Amber usually did incalls. This outcall was different - if we believe Schaller. Maureen had been robbed and was stranded, probably making her a bit desperate to get the funds to return home as nobody in her family was willing to pick her up from NYC. Megan worked with Vybe - he was her security yet she left on her own...

 

[LindsayLohan6]

You are eating the revised history written by people who don't want to feel guilty.

 

[Robert Anderson]

Amber usually did incalls. This outcall was different - if we believe Schaller. Maureen had been robbed and was stranded, probably making her a bit desperate to get the funds to return home as nobody in her family was willing to pick her up from NYC. Megan worked with Vybe - he was her security yet she left on her own...

Thanks, TCC.

Here's a point someone raised on Facebook: How many women must have said "no" to LISK? He (or they) didn't just call four sex workers and get four acceptances of their requirements. I think he really worked hard on his "project". Spent a lot of time grooming victims. Not in person but on the phone. I am positive his calls were lengthy.

I think LISK is methodical, calm and collected on the phone and at first appearance. Whatever line he was selling to get the victims to deviate from the norm....well he didn't ring any alarms when the women first opened the car door.

It's one of the reasons we think his girlfriend may have been in the car as well. Of course this is conjecture, but I think it's reasonable conjecture.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

What requirements?? The lisk never asked any victims not to bring a phone

 

[Aleph]

Thanks, TCC.

Here's a point someone raised on Facebook: How many women must have said "no" to LISK? He (or they) didn't just call four sex workers and get four acceptances of their requirements. I think he really worked hard on his "project". Spent a lot of time grooming victims. Not in person but on the phone. I am positive his calls were lengthy.

I think LISK is methodical, calm and collected on the phone and at first appearance. Whatever line he was selling to get the victims to deviate from the norm....well he didn't ring any alarms when the women first opened the car door.

It's one of the reasons we think his girlfriend may have been in the car as well. Of course this is conjecture, but I think it's reasonable conjecture.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see what you're getting at with the husband/wife duo. Good money for a threesome. A woman present would put potential victims at ease.


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[mcme]

Thanks, TCC.

Here's a point someone raised on Facebook: How many women must have said "no" to LISK? He (or they) didn't just call four sex workers and get four acceptances of their requirements. I think he really worked hard on his "project". Spent a lot of time grooming victims. Not in person but on the phone. I am positive his calls were lengthy.

I think LISK is methodical, calm and collected on the phone and at first appearance. Whatever line he was selling to get the victims to deviate from the norm....well he didn't ring any alarms when the women first opened the car door.

It's one of the reasons we think his girlfriend may have been in the car as well. Of course this is conjecture, but I think it's reasonable conjecture.

This is a point where you and I don't see things the same. I don't believe that the LISK had any contact at all with any of his victims prior to the only and final encounter. With all the tracks left by any sort of modern communication, burner phone or otherwise, there'd be a common thread that LE would have jumped on. I strongly believe that the killer, or killers, simply know what a hooker looks like and where to go find one at any given time. A few normal social interactions later, no matter what time of day or night it is, and they're in a position they can't get out of. It's my opinion all the victims where simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I strongly believe that the killer, or killers, simply know what a hooker looks like and where to go find one at any given time.

Where? The craigslist escort listings? you mean a real physical place? Because where all 4 girls were last seen couldn't be more far apart. The only place they might have common is Penn or 42nd...but never heard of Amber or Megan there

 

[LR1]

Thanks, TCC.

Here's a point someone raised on Facebook: How many women must have said "no" to LISK? He (or they) didn't just call four sex workers and get four acceptances of their requirements. I think he really worked hard on his "project". Spent a lot of time grooming victims. Not in person but on the phone. I am positive his calls were lengthy.

I think LISK is methodical, calm and collected on the phone and at first appearance. Whatever line he was selling to get the victims to deviate from the norm....well he didn't ring any alarms when the women first opened the car door.

It's one of the reasons we think his girlfriend may have been in the car as well. Of course this is conjecture, but I think it's reasonable conjecture.

I'm not trying to pile on here believe me. And I like that we can have a discussion and can disagree without being disagreeable. I personally feel that this guy has been a long term frequenter of prostitutes and that he'd had many encounters that didn't end up with murder or even abuse. I think there's something from time to time that puts him in kill mode, a trigger of some sort. I think he probably has targeted some if not most of these girls but I cant buy him being...lets say non familiar with the game and all he's ever met up with has ended up dead.

What do you think, is this guy a green-horn a veteran or somewhere in between in these encounters?

 

[mcme]

Where? The craigslist escort listings? you mean a real physical place? Because where all 4 girls were last seen couldn't be more far apart. The only place they might have common is Penn or 42nd...but never heard of Amber or Megan there

Yes, a physical place. I know a dozen places on L.I. where you could go and see working girls come and go. The hotel on the expressway is one, and one of the girls actually went missing there. If the Killer works in NYC, I'm sure he knows just where to come across one walking around there too. And who knows if the last caller to any of them was their killer. They may have finished that task and came across their killer after, on the way home or to get smokes, or whatever. The point is I do not believe there was any contact with the killer at all before the final and fatal one.

 

[Robert Anderson]

This is a point where you and I don't see things the same. I don't believe that the LISK had any contact at all with any of his victims prior to the only and final encounter. .

Actually we agree on this point unless you are saying he didn't call them as well. I don't think LISK "groomed" them in any fashion, wasn't a repeat customer etc etc. It would be highly unusual for a SK to do this; not unheard of but it's hard for them to control themselves well enough to keep the facade up for that long. One thing to sound sane and non threatening for 15 minutes; another matter entirely to fake it through an evening let alone act out.

As far as burner phones being untraceable, my understanding is that records will show what number was used to make the call, but if the perp bought the phone for cash and used a fake name (Mickey Mouse?!?!) it's a dead end.

It's my opinion all the victims where simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Completely agree. I think that it is not accidental that they tended to be short and weigh less than 100 pounds, however. But I don't think there is some complex connection between them and LISK, or between each other. LISK went online because, to paraphrase Willy Sutton, that's where the sex workers are.

 

[mcme]

LISK went online because, to paraphrase Willy Sutton, that's where the sex workers are.

The only thing online are ads for sex workers. Near almost any hotel and the convenience store near to it are the flesh and blood workers themselves. Go at the right time, park in the right place, use the right line, and now you've got one in exactly the situation you've set up to make them vanish. No previous contact needed. L.I., NYC, heck, almost anywhere in the entire country, you could find just what you want to find if you know what you're looking for.

 

[Robert Anderson]

I'm not trying to pile on here believe me. And I like that we can have a discussion and can disagree without being disagreeable.

I assure you people throw elbows in Ripperology too. But I don't understand some of the rancor here when alternative theories and POVs are expressed. I could see it if we turned up and said "we're expert criminologists and here to learn you all some book learning" but nobody has done that and we even don't think like that. I am in awe of some of the work done on this website. We should be able to work together to piece together a better picture of LISK.

I personally feel that this guy has been a long term frequenter of prostitutes and that he'd had many encounters that didn't end up with murder or even abuse. I think there's something from time to time that puts him in kill mode, a trigger of some sort. I think he probably has targeted some if not most of these girls but I cant buy him being...lets say non familiar with the game and all he's ever met up with has ended up dead.

I agree with you. He's familiar with the escort industry not just as a hunter but as a client. I don't doubt he's roughed a few up. But early on, I agree with what you are saying. (I also don't think he's part of some marauding pack of "mongers"...)

What do you think, is this guy a green-horn a veteran or somewhere in between in these encounters?

The guy that created the G4 "cemetery" has been around the block before; it's not his first rodeo.

Frequently you see in SKs a pattern of escalation as they work out what turns them on, what degree of risk thrills them etc etc. It's an iterative process. My guess is that since the Manorville days, LISK acquired a home or a place where he could pursue his twisted fantasies without disruption. So you see more complex work at Gilgo than at Manorville. He figured out a better way to hunt for women of the size and weight he seems to favor, and what to do with them when he has them. And he probably got married.....He has a place to store trophies.

I think LISK had to have approached many many escorts to get ones that are willing to play by his rules, and yet don't think it's too risky a venture. That's a lot of work.

It's a puzzle alrighty.

 

[Robert Anderson]

The only thing online are ads for sex workers. Near almost any hotel and the convenience store near to it are the flesh and blood workers themselves. Go at the right time, park in the right place, use the right line, and now you've got one in exactly the situation you've set up to make them vanish. No previous contact needed. L.I., NYC, heck, almost anywhere in the entire country, you could find just what you want to find if you know what you're looking for.

I hear you and I assure you I listen. The problem with your scenario is that it is riskier for LISK. Higher probability of being seen, of encountering a pimp, someone taking note of what type of car he drives.

The method he set up pretty much ensures that only the victim sees him.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I'm not trying to pile on here believe me. And I like that we can have a discussion and can disagree without being disagreeable. I personally feel that this guy has been a long term frequenter of prostitutes and that he'd had many encounters that didn't end up with murder or even abuse. I think there's something from time to time that puts him in kill mode, a trigger of some sort. I think he probably has targeted some if not most of these girls but I cant buy him being...lets say non familiar with the game and all he's ever met up with has ended up dead.

What do you think, is this guy a green-horn a veteran or somewhere in between in these encounters?

I think Lisk is one of the super mongers like the scumbags on Utopiaguide. They've seen every single sex worker on Long Island since the 90's from the strung out streetwalkers to strippers in babylon to the cl/bp girls. Not the high class expensive girls though. Take a look at the utopiaguide posters like genius and gavy...this is what lisk is like.

 

[volcarm]

Yes, a physical place. I know a dozen places on L.I. where you could go and see working girls come and go. The hotel on the expressway is one, and one of the girls actually went missing there. If the Killer works in NYC, I'm sure he knows just where to come across one walking around there too. And who knows if the last caller to any of them was their killer. They may have finished that task and came across their killer after, on the way home or to get smokes, or whatever. The point is I do not believe there was any contact with the killer at all before the final and fatal one.

There's evidence of the girls talking on the phone with him


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[LindsayLohan6]

There's evidence of the girls talking on the phone with him


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only amber on the day of her date. he may have called another time to set up a date that she didn't go on.

it wouldn't take a friendly wife to convince the girls to go on a date. RA, you claim the killer had to do something to convince these girls....look at Maureen, she'd already decided to stay in NY alone and do dates. So what did the killer have to convince her to do? she'd already decided to do dates without a security dude. You claim Melissa had her pimp drive her pick her up from the LI john's house. Terry said he had driven her...he never said he drove her everytime. Melissa wasn't even with working with Terry anymore was she? She'd been doing dates alone and that's what spawned that fight in times square. Megan....she always had her pimp with her when she did dates? then why was she alone in this hotel without him around? Dave schaller drove amber to every date and waited outside? She never did an outcall before where the guy picked her up? Are you sureabout that?

sorry robert but your document on the girls safety protocols just isn't correct. You have the facts wrong in too many of the instances, maybe you can update it to be more accurate?

 

[mcme]

There's evidence of the girls talking on the phone with him


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There's evidence of her speaking to someone. But none that proves whoever she spoke with killed her. Because of phone records and my belief that LE actually do their job, it's easier for me to believe that she finished her business with whoever it is she spoke to, and was lured in and killed on her way home. Because they used phones, I don't think any of these girls last clients are unknown to the police.

 

[marble]

I hear you and I assure you I listen. The problem with your scenario is that it is riskier for LISK. Higher probability of being seen, of encountering a pimp, someone taking note of what type of car he drives.

The method he set up pretty much ensures that only the victim sees him.

Which brings us back to a theory that he solicited escorts regularly this way, and didn't kill all of the ones whose services he used- that he was very careful about the circumstances of those pick-ups and that he didn't decide to kill the victims that he did until fairly far into their "date" and had decided the coast was clear and there wasn't going to be any witnesses or communications that would tie him to them.

 

[marble]

I think Lisk is one of the super mongers like the scumbags on Utopiaguide. They've seen every single sex worker on Long Island since the 90's from the strung out streetwalkers to strippers in babylon to the cl/bp girls. Not the high class expensive girls though. Take a look at the utopiaguide posters like genius and gavy...this is what lisk is like.

I'm also partial to this theory.