I thought it was said, that it was enough animal blood to smear? I envision that to mean, enough to cover your hand with. So, if an injured bleeding animal was there, it also left no traces of blood anywhere outside the car? They test animal blood where she worked, right? Not that she personally did..but are they doing more testing to determine if it was Canine or Feline? Wouldn't a tracker dog be able to follow that scent if an injured animal ran off?
Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6
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Mrs. DeBoer's body was left in the running water in a culvert under a roadway to hide her from view and to wash away DNA evidence. Stryker stated that the bag was not from a restaurant she frequented - at all - therefore I am not inclined to believe that she supplied that bag to the scene. I do not believe that Mrs. DeBoer stuck a razor blade in her pocket after cleaning the stove top. No one puts razor blades in their pockets, come on, it is dangerous and can rip your clothes apart. Have any of you here ever put a razor blade in your pocket on purpose or unintentionally? Why would anyone think that Mrs. DeBoer would?
I am saying it again, look into the residents of the apartment complex and find out who works the night shift in the area of the park and ride OR someone who drops off his girl friend at the park and ride in the early mornings.
As for animal blood, it could have been there for a while and could be just transfer from a hunt. Let's wait to see.
I am saying it again, look into the residents of the apartment complex and find out who works the night shift in the area of the park and ride OR someone who drops off his girl friend at the park and ride in the early mornings.
As for animal blood, it could have been there for a while and could be just transfer from a hunt. Let's wait to see.
I'm excluding the possibility from my understanding that Cheryl had a blond moment, put a plastic bag on her head, and wandered into a cold, dark creek culvert. That option is not on my radar, and I haven't seen any reason to put it on my radar. If Cheryl's mother was prone to sudden dementia moments, we would have seen that during the press conference. Cheryl's mother appears to be a perfectly healthy alert concerned mother.
On what basis should we assume the happily married daughter of a perfectly healthy woman has sudden suicidal dementia at the age of 53, at 7 o'clock on a Monday morning?
Cheryl's husband became aware that she was missing after work, found her car, and at some point police were involved.
How long does it take to walk 1.5 miles - that's how long it took Cheryl to walk from the car to the culvert if she was suicidal - add in a few extra minutes for the animal blood. The person who parked behind Cheryl's saw her car at 8AM, so she was gone within the hour.
La Louve
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I think her husband reported her missing about 3:15 that afternoon after he located her car.
I want to know if there was a preservative in the blood.
She was fully clothed, but we haven't heard whether sexual assault was ruled out, did we? I hope they have checked out sex offenders within a certain radius of her home and within MLT. There was a woman who posted last night about a stranger encounter in the P&R lot, but it sounded a hair made up, IMO. I definitely think a canvas and surveillance of surrounding apartment complexes would be warranted.
eucalyptuz
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Hey ANZAC or anyone else in the know 
,
If you are still up, would you mind explaining, if you are able, the steps LE would have taken to determine :
1 - the liquid is blood
2 - the liquid is not human blood
3 - the blood is whatever animal
It seems to me that a broad luminol-type test would be done, come back positive followed by a quick DNA comp to Cheryl? This being negative and not even similar to human alleles would then resulting in the need for the time-consuming tests that the LE is mentioning...?
Wondering about false-positives for blood?
,If you are still up, would you mind explaining, if you are able, the steps LE would have taken to determine :
1 - the liquid is blood
2 - the liquid is not human blood
3 - the blood is whatever animal
It seems to me that a broad luminol-type test would be done, come back positive followed by a quick DNA comp to Cheryl? This being negative and not even similar to human alleles would then resulting in the need for the time-consuming tests that the LE is mentioning...?
Wondering about false-positives for blood?
QueenBea13
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Does anyone remember in the very beginning, way back when, it was stated that she'd taken some work home with her over the weekend & had forgotten it, so she was, would've been retrieving the forgotten badge & forgotten work from the weekend; is it possible she took vials of some unknown animal blood they used for testing? But she couldn't say she needed to go home for it, so she used the badge as an excuse, already knowing she'd left the badge there on purpose?
Another thing from the beginning, the book that was supposedly found in her car, was it her personal book, a library book or borrowed from a friend book? And what book was it & where is it now?
I have been against suicide from the beginning but I'm starting to think someone was trying to frame someone for harming Cheryl & I think that person is Cheryl. Who was the 1st person cleared? Husband. Would there be a reason that she wouldn't want him to have the life insurance money? Something she had found out or figured out & she wanted to make sure that he knew she knew but only after she was gone?
Maybe Cheryl wasn't dead on Monday, what if she hung out with the homeless folks she had befriended by taking them blankets & coats? Once she caught wind that hubby had been cleared she knew she had to go through with it. Idk, but more & more I'm leaning towards suicide & I hate that I feel this way.
Anyone watch the movie Gone Girl, that is exactly what this is starting to remind me of, except Cheryl isn't going to miraculously reappear.
The thoughts & opinions stated above are that, MY random thoughts & opinions.
Another thing from the beginning, the book that was supposedly found in her car, was it her personal book, a library book or borrowed from a friend book? And what book was it & where is it now?
I have been against suicide from the beginning but I'm starting to think someone was trying to frame someone for harming Cheryl & I think that person is Cheryl. Who was the 1st person cleared? Husband. Would there be a reason that she wouldn't want him to have the life insurance money? Something she had found out or figured out & she wanted to make sure that he knew she knew but only after she was gone?
Maybe Cheryl wasn't dead on Monday, what if she hung out with the homeless folks she had befriended by taking them blankets & coats? Once she caught wind that hubby had been cleared she knew she had to go through with it. Idk, but more & more I'm leaning towards suicide & I hate that I feel this way.
Anyone watch the movie Gone Girl, that is exactly what this is starting to remind me of, except Cheryl isn't going to miraculously reappear.
The thoughts & opinions stated above are that, MY random thoughts & opinions.
BBM
"No one puts razor blades in their pockets, come on, it is dangerous and can rip your clothes apart."
Perhaps the razor blade was in her pocket to explain the cuts to two fingers?
mrsgladyskravitz
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Depends on her mode of transportation: On foot; public transportation; private vehicle; commercial vehicle; any combination of the above.
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I don't see the her mother relates. Not all dementia is hereditary.
I've seen it at 2pm in the woman I mentioned we found, but the family did notice odd behavior the night before.
She had stripped all her clothes off and was laying under a car, then ran away when someone approached her. The day or prior night before she was fine, and no prior medical/mental history.
Thanks. So (on the suicide theory) she was probably deceased by 830 or 900 am the same day. Most suicides the person is deceased long before we get the 911 call, because they buy enough time that once their family notices or starts looking, it is too late.
JanetElaine
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snipped for focus
I would be curious to know how to explain Cheryl's behavior if one wants to keep focusing on sudden onset dementia.
First she's super calculated and setting up a crime scene to make it look like it was a kidnap/homicide, but then she's walking off dazed to suffocate and/or drown herself in 3 foot deep ice cold water in a culvert, even though she's claustrophobic (per Stryker57)?
To me, that doesn't match up.
:cow:
yelhsalobie
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Actually, it was not made up. Why don't you go subpoena the recording of the phone call. Friday, March 25th, 4:56pm, call length at 3 min and 51 seconds. Thank you and have a nice day.
Regular dementia is congenital but can also be caused by environmental factors and toxins.
Could you please provide a link to the medical description for "sudden onset demetia". I'd like to read more.
If it was suicide, might she walk along the creek as much as possible, took her time maybe?
Hey ANZAC or anyone else in the know
If you are still up, would you mind explaining, if you are able, the steps LE would have taken to determine :
1 - the liquid is blood
2 - the liquid is not human blood
3 - the blood is whatever animal
It seems to me that a broad luminol-type test would be done, come back positive followed by a quick DNA comp to Cheryl? This being negative and not even similar to human alleles would then resulting in the need for the time-consuming tests that the LE is mentioning...?
Wondering about false-positives for blood?
Most of the time fresh blood, even small amounts, is obvious. This is more out of my realm. All I know is we note it stay watching it, call a detective or someone who collects it and they send it out for testing. (not sure if state crime lab or ME)
Once fresh blood sits, there is a time over which it will separate into blood serum and plasma. I don't know the exact timeline, but it single digit hours ish. (this was a factor in a case we talked about in our last crime scene training). Whether you can see this on the carpet of a car, where it is soaking in, I don't know. The case we discussed was on a smooth non-porous surface. But point being the amount of this separation can give you a timeline. (assuming someone documents it with pictures!)
Luminol is only used for spatter or older scenes. I know there is a test kit for "is it blood" but that's about all I know. We try to avoid touching or getting involved with anything human and wet, if possible.
"quick DNA comp" - the WA state crime lab has a permanent backlog... if it isn't a cold case (i.e. there's more of a hurry) I've heard the turnaround is typically a week plus.
JanetElaine
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No, there haven't been any reports on that.
I keep coming back to how LE says her clothing was not disheveled. The poor woman was in a culvert in running water for a week. How was her clothing not disheveled? I can't make anything of that statement...
idfinch
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About sudden onset dementia - this is what happened to my mom right in front of me and it's terrifying. There are many medical reasons for it I'm sure, and I'll spare the long details, but in my experience & opinion this is next to impossible. And looking back there were small signs - which is completely opposed to how sharp Cheryl was. The stealth required to plant animal blood with no animal or container nearby, avoid all cams, avoid attracting any public attention with the related confusion, lose said animal or container along with phone, wallet & keys which are never found, end up at the culvert, walk against the current to hide on the east side, place a bag over her head in the rushing cold water & force herself to suffocate & drown is NOT consistent with dementia. Wandering into a nearby park & falling into a creek, or walking in front of someone's car, or attracting attention by being disoriented, that I would believe.
As for the animal blood, that sticks with me. I seriously doubt it was in the car the night before if it was fresh & of quantity enough to smear the next day. Not dried or congealed. I also seriously doubt that Cheryl got a new cat who sounds like a skittish rescue of sorts and immediately during the week of transition decided to change the cat's diet. That can be really difficult & make them sick. And to change it to raw hunted meat, not store bought, have that much blood in cat food meat leaking from the package only on the passenger floorboard, then to disappear, never heard of before or since? With Cheryl not even discussing that drastic of a dietary change with her friend & cat rescue/breeder or her husband? Not buying the cat food angle at all.
As for the animal blood, that sticks with me. I seriously doubt it was in the car the night before if it was fresh & of quantity enough to smear the next day. Not dried or congealed. I also seriously doubt that Cheryl got a new cat who sounds like a skittish rescue of sorts and immediately during the week of transition decided to change the cat's diet. That can be really difficult & make them sick. And to change it to raw hunted meat, not store bought, have that much blood in cat food meat leaking from the package only on the passenger floorboard, then to disappear, never heard of before or since? With Cheryl not even discussing that drastic of a dietary change with her friend & cat rescue/breeder or her husband? Not buying the cat food angle at all.
Someone posted a good link on it about 10 pages back, I didn't bookmark it. It was sudden onset <something-else> (but the symptoms are dementia like). And I forget who posted it, sorry.
I do agree that in the suicide or even sudden-onset-whatever, that she could have spent a few hours walking around the creek area. Surprising there were no sightings though.
JanetElaine
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Not to mention that the information about it being cat food would be readily known to LE.
If it was from cat food, the meat had to be somewhere in the house if that was the case, fridge most likely, and if Cheryl's husband didn't know about it that Monday, he would have found it later that week.
It would seem logical that in that case LE would have had a test done to see if the blood was from the cat food meat. Instead we were told they're having it tested further to see what kind of animal it came from. Not that they're having it tested to see if it matches 'cat food found in the house'.
all :cow:
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