WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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On the subject of Lyle living in the US, is it possible that while he grew up there, his parents may have not and not have spoken English very well or at all? Could that be a contributing factor to the seemingly non-existent missing persons report? As ever, I'm sure this has been proposed before but if it is the case, how would we ever identify him?
 
When reading about, looking at pictures of and posting in missing and murdered person cases, it is as if those people are surrounded, cared for and not alone.
Even if many years have passed since they may have felt fear or pain, they are not forgotten or overlooked when photos, names and histories are recalled and considered by so many, imo.
 
On the subject of Lyle living in the US, is it possible that while he grew up there, his parents may have not and not have spoken English very well or at all? Could that be a contributing factor to the seemingly non-existent missing persons report? As ever, I'm sure this has been proposed before but if it is the case, how would we ever identify him?

Could be. If his parents weren't from America, they could have easily lost contact with him if he left and didn't keep in touch, and I think it is very possible they wouldn't know what to do if they were concerned about their son. In many countries around the around, missing persons cases aren't even taken seriously as there is oftentimes a different culture as to what the LE should be doing.

Also, there are many people out there who aren't very well aware of problems of mental health. They see it as shame/taboo that they avoid discussing and looking into at all costs.
If you asked my parents about me in deep personal ways, they would be completely baffled and had no idea what to say or rather see me as problem-free which is far from the reality of who I am. I am thinking that something along those lines could have applied to Lyle. Perhaps he went away, they assumed he decided not to keep in touch and just move on. He could have already been alienated from family prior to him traveling and ultimately committing suicide. Or, it could be possible if he didn't have any relatives or family ties.

Also, I think the nonexistent missing persons report is not strange at all. There are tons of individuals who go missing who are never reported missing by anyone. Lori Ruff, for example. She technically was a missing person. Had she been dead after leaving home with her remains found somewhere, the chances of her identification would be very slim as she wasn't reported missing in the first place. Grateful Doe is another example. Because he was traveling quite a bit and his family wasn't sure of his location, they never reported him missing. I think his mom didn't report him missing after almost 20 yrs if I am not mistaken.


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Could be. If his parents weren't from America, they could have easily lost contact with him if he left and didn't keep in touch, and I think it is very possible they wouldn't know what to do if they were concerned about their son. In many countries around the around, missing persons cases aren't even taken seriously as there is oftentimes a different culture as to what the LE should be doing.

Also, there are many people out there who aren't very well aware of problems of mental health. They see it as shame/taboo that they avoid discussing and looking into at all costs.
If you asked my parents about me in deep personal ways, they would be completely baffled and had no idea what to say or rather see me as problem-free which is far from the reality of who I am. I am thinking that something along those lines could have applied to Lyle. Perhaps he went away, they assumed he decided not to keep in touch and just move on. He could have already been alienated from family prior to him traveling and ultimately committing suicide. Or, it could be possible if he didn't have any relatives or family ties.

Also, I think the nonexistent missing persons report is not strange at all. There are tons of individuals who go missing who are never reported missing by anyone. Lori Ruff, for example. She technically was a missing person. Had she been dead after leaving home with her remains found somewhere, the chances of her identification would be very slim as she wasn't reported missing in the first place. Grateful Doe is another example. Because he was traveling quite a bit and his family wasn't sure of his location, they never reported him missing. I think his mom didn't report him missing after almost 20 yrs if I am not mistaken.


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I'm sorry to hear that. My parents are much the same. Sadly, some just do not understand. You're right, they could have made any mental health problems worse for him or simply not known how to handle them. If they did make Lyle feel bad about it, that would explain why he didn't want to be identified. Perhaps he was hiding from those who knew him, not the entire world.

If we're completely off the mark and that wasn't the case at all, how sad to think that his parents might be out there wondering about him and have no idea where to begin searching or asking.
 
Hello all. New to this thread. There are a variety of reasons people don't report missing loved ones. Some have had negative police interactions in the past. Some departments don't take missing persons reports. Some do but don't investigate and close the case as a voluntary missing adult. There are a lot of factors at play with missing adults. In this case, we don't definitively know where the decedent is from, if forensics like stable isotope analysis have been conducted, or what we're looking at as far as familial ties.
 
More recent members may not be aware that for a while, retired detective Lane Youmans, who investigated Lyle's case, was a member here as coldcaseman and posted a great deal of information about the case. Babyslims, Roselvr, and some other users compiled that information into a single thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?142870-Compiled-info-contributed-by-coldcaseman

It's definitely worth reading--answers many of the questions we've all had while trying to find where Lyle belongs. It's not terribly long.

I read this ages ago. But I'll do a quick review.

Here's something to ponder on, though. 16 years have passed since Lyle died. It seems to me that at this point there are some theories that can now be ruled out.

I'm surprised no one on this forum has found the exact Timberland boot yet. I was kind of hoping someone would have, given how exhaustive some of the work on this case has been. And people really have worked hard. It's mind-blowing. Whatever neglect Lyle received in life, in death he is remembered in a loving and intense way, that few of us will ever know. It's very heartwarming.


Those boots were not common. There's even a chance they were part of run that was more popular overseas, or were only sold overseas. Or didn't enjoy much of a run here.

I think they may even have been made in the late '80s. Which would mean that Lyle either had those boots all that time (they were very worn; Timberland soles tend to last forever); or he bought them second hand...

Those boots are distinctive enough, that they probably do provide some kind of link into Lyle's personality and perhaps even where he lived when he purchased them. And no socks....hmmmmmmm.

There's a Timberland store in my area. I am going to see if some Timberland-nerd, might be able to identify the sole of those boots (I couldn't find any soles that matched exactly); and the style. It looks like a hiking boot, rather than a working boot.

FYI: Lane Youmans is kind of my hero. He really gave this young man's death the recognition every life deserves. He's worked hard on other cases as well. As someone who lost someone very dear to similar type of suicide, I am truly appreciative.
 
I love it! Many people traveled to Seattle because of music dreams. Sub Pop is still active today. The only question is why so little was found with him if he was a musician. No guitar, no notebook of lyrics, etc. But the pen could have simply been for writing his suicide note.

Unrelated to your post Gracie2112, but I don't think Lyle was Mexican-American/Latin, not even Native American, but more of a Canadian Native. He kind of favors Shawn Jones missing from Ontario in 1993. He's native, complexion is very light, and he has light eyes, and black hair. Jones is not yet in the rule out list on NamUs.


There are light skinned latinos. I would agree, though, that Lyle does have characteristics similar to Canadian Natives as well. He could really come from a mix of ethnicities, like so many people.

Whatever his ethnicity, he did take on a look that was more grunge/hipster than anything else. The low rider look is interestingly similar, but the boots just don't fit. If he'd worn the wheat Timberlands, maybe. That's what I had always imagined him wearing. But he's wearing a type of boot that looks distinctly grunge inspired.

The true grunge scene pretty much ended close to Cobain's death in '94. But the look prevailed. And I think it's probably a mistake to rule out a look that would still have been very present, and was basically originated in a city, that was about an hour from where a man who seems to have been sporting that look, died.

The possibility that Lyle had ties to Seattle, seems more likely than not.

I rule out Lyle being a professional because there is too much contact required to become a professional, in any field, to where no one comes forward after all this time. And I also doubt he was old enough to have been in any field that requires a decade of schooling and internship. Nothing about his attire points to his being professional either.

There are lots and lots of people in our society, existing in the margins---and unless you knew this about them, nothing about how they looked would necessarily clue you into this fact. They can appear as if they are doing fine, if you only glance at them. They are clean. They care about people. They find ways to survive that don't fit into a cliched idea we have about the poor and the homeless and the marginalized among us.
 
I read this ages ago. But I'll do a quick review.

Here's something to ponder on, though. 16 years have passed since Lyle died. It seems to me that at this point there are some theories that can now be ruled out.

I'm surprised no one on this forum has found the exact Timberland boot yet. I was kind of hoping someone would have, given how exhaustive some of the work on this case has been. And people really have worked hard. It's mind-blowing. Whatever neglect Lyle received in life, in death he is remembered in a loving and intense way, that few of us will ever know. It's very heartwarming.


Those boots were not common. There's even a chance they were part of run that was more popular overseas, or were only sold overseas. Or didn't enjoy much of a run here.

I think they may even have been made in the late '80s. Which would mean that Lyle either had those boots all that time (they were very worn; Timberland soles tend to last forever); or he bought them second hand...

Those boots are distinctive enough, that they probably do provide some kind of link into Lyle's personality and perhaps even where he lived when he purchased them. And no socks....hmmmmmmm.

There's a Timberland store in my area. I am going to see if some Timberland-nerd, might be able to identify the sole of those boots (I couldn't find any soles that matched exactly); and the style. It looks like a hiking boot, rather than a working boot.

The boots have been checked extensively by investigators. Nothing of note has come back.
 
I have nothing of note to add -- just that these pictures break my heart. I remember when I first saw the full Imgur album of the scene pictures...I cried for hours, as silly as that sounds. Even the above glimpse at the pen in his pocket or his shoes evokes such a feeling of sadness in me. It reminds me that this man took his own life alone in a motel room, probably far from home.

These pictures break my heart too. He looks like such a kid. If he was under the age of 25, his brain wasn't even fully developed. I believe that the early twenties are a hard time for many. You are supposed to be a responsible adult, but if you don't have the skills or you are plagued with mental health issues , those responsibilities can be quite daunting.

This case stays with you, for sure.
 

True. But you can't go through this type of training without having a great deal of contact with people. No matter how shy you are. The schooling alone, requires lab partners, counselors, teachers, fellow students. He would have to have lived some place, paid bills, received loans or had that kind of money.

People who have this type of connection to society rarely go missing indefinitely. 16 years have passed. Someone who knew him during those years would have come forward by now.

The only two reasons I've ever seen given for Lyle being a doctor, were his penmanship (I don't see the scientific validity in this assumption-you cannot tell someone's profession, by the few written words we have of Lyle's);

The other reason often given is the fact that Lyle knew how to kill himself. Well so did Robin Williams, and Williams is no doctor.

There are many, many websites one can go to (unfortunately) where you can learn these methods of dying. I've actually never known a doctor versed in suicide. Most doctors are looking to keep people alive.

Youmans points to Karen S. 's work at this time. She not only supported suicide as a viable option, but in someways encouraged it (this around the time Lyle took his own life, in a manner KS's website "promoted".) And this website was one where people discussed how they were going to die. They advised each other on best methods. I have an archive, I'll post here at some point.

What else is there to point to this young man being a professional?

I think at this point, we have to factor in that 16 years have passed. There are theories that can now be ruled out.
 
If the clothes Lyle wore are not buried with him, but in an evidence locker somewhere, I wish someone would take another, closer look.
 
The boots have been checked extensively by investigators. Nothing of note has come back.

I always wondered if they researched the lot numbers on the toothbrush and toothpaste. Those items can be traced for where they are manufactured and distributed for recalls and quality. I think they tried to trace the bills but that didn't work either. But, the toothpaste and brush could be very insightful.
 
I always wondered if they researched the lot numbers on the toothbrush and toothpaste. Those items can be traced for where they are manufactured and distributed for recalls and quality. I think they tried to trace the bills but that didn't work either. But, the toothpaste and brush could be very insightful.

The most that would come of that is a stock number. Not much to be found there.
 
There are light skinned latinos. I would agree, though, that Lyle does have characteristics similar to Canadian Natives as well. He could really come from a mix of ethnicities, like so many people.

Whatever his ethnicity, he did take on a look that was more grunge/hipster than anything else. The low rider look is interestingly similar, but the boots just don't fit. If he'd worn the wheat Timberlands, maybe. That's what I had always imagined him wearing. But he's wearing a type of boot that looks distinctly grunge inspired.

The true grunge scene pretty much ended close to Cobain's death in '94. But the look prevailed. And I think it's probably a mistake to rule out a look that would still have been very present, and was basically originated in a city, that was about an hour from where a man who seems to have been sporting that look, died.

The possibility that Lyle had ties to Seattle, seems more likely than not.

I rule out Lyle being a professional because there is too much contact required to become a professional, in any field, to where no one comes forward after all this time. And I also doubt he was old enough to have been in any field that requires a decade of schooling and internship. Nothing about his attire points to his being professional either.

There are lots and lots of people in our society, existing in the margins---and unless you knew this about them, nothing about how they looked would necessarily clue you into this fact. They can appear as if they are doing fine, if you only glance at them. They are clean. They care about people. They find ways to survive that don't fit into a cliched idea we have about the poor and the homeless and the marginalized among us.

This is thread #5, 99% sure one of us found the boots online years ago. If I remember correctly, it could be thread 4. We had a lot of research, it then got closed
 
This is thread #5, 99% sure one of us found the boots online years ago. If I remember correctly, it could be thread 4. We had a lot of research, it then got closed

At some point, when I have the time, I'll comb through all the old threads. I'm sure there is good info, but really the info about the boots should pop up on a google search. Most Websleuths open forums do pop up on searches.

However, I truly doubt that anyone has looked into the exact Timberland this man wore. I've been following this case, off and on, for about 11 years. I've even contacted Youman once. I read the Coldcaseman/Lane Youman comments here a few times. And I've performed a lot of basic searches on this case. All that most sources report, including Youman's, is that Lyle had been wearing black Timberlands, size 10. (Those boots really don't look black to me. But that could be the quality of the picture.)

For whatever reason, no one thought to look at this aspect of this man. It really appears that Lyle's attire was kind of dismissed in total, as not being that important. I've never even read that he had a uniball pen, which actually does seem significant to me.

Most people seem stuck on his "accent", which we don't even know that he had. And his heritage.

Sometimes I think with a case that has been in circuit for this long, almost two decades, it might be important to start over, and give this a fresh approach. And also take into account what ideas HAVE NOT produced any solid leads.

Clearly no one is looking for this guy. He is probably in the status of a Grateful Doe. Either he was rejected, or those who might have wanted to look for him were not able to for some reason.

If no one is looking for him, then that could be telling as to the life he led, and might also indicate that he was younger than imagined. For someone older not to leave more of an imprint, would be unusual.

The only things we really have to go on are things he chose to tell about himself. He liked a good quality pen, so much so that he had to have brought that with him. Even though he didn't bring much else.

He dressed grunge/casual--no socks. He wore his clothes baggy (that was a style). His appearance mattered to him. And he either didn't like food much, or he wanted that thin emaciated look (which was also a style at the time-heroin-chic.) His hair was cut in a stylish manner as well.

He wore boots that he'd either had forever, or had bought second hand. But they must have been comfortable, because he wore them when he died.

He came to Grays Harbor with a little over 250 dollars--all in twenties, it would seem. Although he bought a few things, so had change. Just enough money to stay for those few days.

He may have bought the toothpaste and toothbrush in Grays Harbor, or on the way---which might indicate that prior to this someone took everything he had, or he was kicked out of a place, and someone kept his things, or he shed all his belongings on the way. There is no sign of a backpack, which leads me to believe he came from somewhere close by, and had been to this area before. He knew he could get a room without ID.

I think he came from Seattle. Had some kind of ties to Seattle. His clothes. His familiarity with the spot. The amount of money and change he had, might fit with the bus fare required. And he had the address of a cheap motel in Meridian, Idaho, memorized. That right there, tells a story. You don't have an address like that memorized just to fool someone. He could just as easily have made an address up. So why did he have that address memorized? Did he stay there long enough to get mail? Was it an address he gave out, so that certain people could meet him there, when he stayed there? Was this motel a place where he knew someone. Perhaps someone who worked there helped him out from time to time....why THAT motel? Why did he know that address so well?

These are the facts I've never really seen discussed on this case, and I don't get why.
 
I always wondered if they researched the lot numbers on the toothbrush and toothpaste. Those items can be traced for where they are manufactured and distributed for recalls and quality. I think they tried to trace the bills but that didn't work either. But, the toothpaste and brush could be very insightful.

You might be on to something there. The lot number on those types of items might be more exact than just about any other item he had with him. That information tends to be exact. I wonder if it could still be looked up.

Obviously both the toothbrush and paste were brand new. He barely used the paste, and he kept the brush in it's original packaging.
 
At some point, when I have the time, I'll comb through all the old threads. I'm sure there is good info, but really the info about the boots should pop up on a google search. Most Websleuths open forums do pop up on searches.

However, I truly doubt that anyone has looked into the exact Timberland this man wore. I've been following this case, off and on, for about 11 years. I've even contacted Youman once. I read the Coldcaseman/Lane Youman comments here a few times. And I've performed a lot of basic searches on this case. All that most sources report, including Youman's, is that Lyle had been wearing black Timberlands, size 10. (Those boots really don't look black to me. But that could be the quality of the picture.)

For whatever reason, no one thought to look at this aspect of this man. It really appears that Lyle's attire was kind of dismissed in total, as not being that important. I've never even read that he had a uniball pen, which actually does seem significant to me.

Most people seem stuck on his "accent", which we don't even know that he had. And his heritage.

Sometimes I think with a case that has been in circuit for this long, almost two decades, it might be important to start over, and give this a fresh approach. And also take into account what ideas HAVE NOT produced any solid leads.

Clearly no one is looking for this guy. He is probably in the status of a Grateful Doe. Either he was rejected, or those who might have wanted to look for him were not able to for some reason.

If no one is looking for him, then that could be telling as to the life he led, and might also indicate that he was younger than imagined. For someone older not to leave more of an imprint, would be unusual.

The only things we really have to go on are things he chose to tell about himself. He liked a good quality pen, so much so that he had to have brought that with him. Even though he didn't bring much else.

He dressed grunge/casual--no socks. He wore his clothes baggy (that was a style). His appearance mattered to him. And he either didn't like food much, or he wanted that thin emaciated look (which was also a style at the time-heroin-chic.) His hair was cut in a stylish manner as well.

He wore boots that he'd either had forever, or had bought second hand. But they must have been comfortable, because he wore them when he died.

He came to Grays Harbor with a little over 250 dollars--all in twenties, it would seem. Although he bought a few things, so had change. Just enough money to stay for those few days.

He may have bought the toothpaste and toothbrush in Grays Harbor, or on the way---which might indicate that prior to this someone took everything he had, or he was kicked out of a place, and someone kept his things, or he shed all his belongings on the way. There is no sign of a backpack, which leads me to believe he came from somewhere close by, and had been to this area before. He knew he could get a room without ID.

I think he came from Seattle. Had some kind of ties to Seattle. His clothes. His familiarity with the spot. The amount of money and change he had, might fit with the bus fare required. And he had the address of a cheap motel in Meridian, Idaho, memorized. That right there, tells a story. You don't have an address like that memorized just to fool someone. He could just as easily have made an address up. So why did he have that address memorized? Did he stay there long enough to get mail? Was it an address he gave out, so that certain people could meet him there, when he stayed there? Was this motel a place where he knew someone. Perhaps someone who worked there helped him out from time to time....why THAT motel? Why did he know that address so well?

These are the facts I've never really seen discussed on this case, and I don't get why.

I agree; he knew the motel for a reason. I don't think they recognized him because the old recon didn't look like him. Had they had Carls or seen pics of his clothing they may have recognized him.

We never saw his clothes or boots till Eugene got the photos via FOIA. I wish Carl would have done a full body recon.

I don't consider his clothes grunge. Many people I know wear Tims, Tshirts with flannels and jeans.

I started looking in thread 4 but just don't have time. You also may want to go to his Reddit because they've looked at pretty much everything. I follow him here, the FB group and Reddit when I had time. I thought we discussed the boots here but maybe its one of the other places.
 
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