Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[ThinkHard]

After thinking about it for a while I would say NO, he wasn't involved! It all seems too implausible for me to believe he accidentally killed her and then the parents covering up for him. We would have to believe too many crazy things IMO for the family theory to be true. These piece of evidence that Lou Smit brought up are enough for me to trust the intruder theory -

The intruder left no footprints because he went around and avoided the snow - http://i.imgur.com/AzYkumz.png / http://i.imgur.com/7lThNRs.png / http://i.imgur.com/9Azf8FG.png
Foliage trapped underneath the metal grill, which the intruder moved to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/TWtMJep.png
And we see a disturbance when he landed his feet underneath the metal grill - http://i.imgur.com/1aRmDJs.png
The intruder left his fingerprints on the window he used to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/3YmHVpI.png
The intruder left a shoe print on the briefcase he used to escape the house - http://i.imgur.com/UCummhi.png
Left a shoe/sneaker mark on the wall and left the window open - http://i.imgur.com/KowhrYl.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét's stun gun marks - http://i.imgur.com/U82Ck5H.png
With the electric arch clearly seen here - http://i.imgur.com/E8lQ2E6.png / http://i.imgur.com/YVyNHuW.png
The garrote used to strangle JonBenét was pulled so hard and violently that pieces of her hair were stuck on it, you really think her parents or brother could have done that? - http://i.imgur.com/2Nyxga2.png / http://i.imgur.com/NdwTliI.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét was strangled so violently you can see red marks around her entire neck - http://i.imgur.com/BuwGhBz.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) So it wasn't just "planted" their by her parents to make it look like a strangulation. She really was severely strangled - http://i.imgur.com/solzTQ3.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) Her fingernail marks on her neck suggesting she was fighting back against the strangulation proving she was alive first & strangled. Then she was hit over the head that cracked her skull and died shortly after the blow - http://i.imgur.com/P7ydZLV.png

To me this makes more sense then the "family did it" theory. I can't see Burke hitting her so hard to crack her skull then the parents finding out and covering it up by strangling the daughter they loved very much in the basement to cause severe marks around JonBenét's neck, then sexually assaulting her, then breaking the glass window in the basement, leaving footprint marks, writing a note under great emotional stress and saying they would "behead" their own daughter? The language in the note suggests an intruder wrote it because the language used in the note would not come from an intelligent and caring person like Patsy who loved her daughter too much. Patsy or John didn't have that kind of vocabulary, sorry I just don't buy it. Leaving her dead and cold in the basement like that and pretending not to know where she is when the cops came, that's crazy.

Even the phone call makes sense when you accept the intruder theory. Patsy saying "what did you do?" "Help me Jesus" implies her not knowing anything! Why would she say that off the record when she knew nobody was listening to her, if she knew her daughter was dead in the basement she wouldn't have uttered those words. When they woke up in the morning they may have taught Burke did something to her that's why even John said "we're not speaking to you" but Burke was innocent, it was just a false assumption by them. No, these parents would have died for their children, they loved them too much, they had too much invested in them! You can just tell.

One question. Do you know what size those foot print marks where?

It was a size BOYS 12! Not a grown man, a BOYS size 12 Hi Tech boot mark, a boot made at that time with a compass on the laces....the very same type of boots BR admitted himself to owning at the time on Dr P. If your going to write a ransom note and you want it to sound like a foreign faction wrote it, are you going to try to sound like yourself in that letter, or like something opposite of your character? Finally saying "what did you do" I don't take as a question she didn't know the answer to .... It was more like finding your toddlers drawing all over the walls and saying "what did you do!" ..... Magnified times 1000 because the what her kid did this time was really really really bad....and I'm sure she still couldn't believe it had happened.

Also in the documentary it proves a stun gun absolutely could not have made those marks. JR admitted to breaking the window himself weeks before when he was accidently locked out.

 

[TUB23]

How did the spider web stay intact when the intruder went through the window?

If I'm not mistaken photos of this "spider web" were never taken, hmmm... I wonder why. How can we believe what the cops saw if there's no picture evidence of it? The same cops who decided the parents were guilty from the first day? Plus if it was still intact by the time cops saw it it could have been re-spun. And I also believe that the intruder may have avoided it or the web was strong enough to stay intact even with some minimal contact.

 

[TUB23]

One question. Do you know what size those foot print marks where?

Also in the documentary it proves a stun gun absolutely could not have made those marks.

I don't know the shoe size on the briefcase but shoeprints were found not only on the briefcase but also HI-TEC shoeprints were found across the basement floor, shoeprints that didn't match the parents! They never owned this pair.

There have been many experts that have stated that those are stun gun marks.

 

[Kakidoll]

Can a judge ever unseal those records if pertinent to a legal case?

I think if they could unseal BR's medical records we'd know a heck of a lot more. However since a 9 yr old (even tho he was only a couple weeks from being 10) can NOT be prosecuted, I think those are forever a secret.

As for other records, guess it will depend on how far this 'lawsuit' goes and if they haven't 'disappeared' over the years along with some evidence.

 

[johnjay]

If I'm not mistaken photos of this "spider web" were never taken, hmmm... I wonder why. How can we believe what the cops saw if there's no picture evidence of it? The same cops who decided the parents were guilty from the first day? Plus if it was still intact by the time cops saw it it could have been re-spun. And I also believe that the intruder may have avoided it or the web was strong enough to stay intact even with some minimal contact.

You are mistaken there is a video of the spider web. Did you watch the CBS show?

 

[TUB23]

You are mistaken there is a video of the spider web. Did you watch the CBS show?

I said photos were never taken, I knew of the video.

 

[johnjay]

I said photos were never taken, I knew of the video.

And a photo was made from the video. So yes, we have a photo of the spider web. Now if you want to believe that the police faked the spider web photo - well believe what you want - most of us won't believe that though - no no.

 

[Leomoon80]

I don't know the shoe size on the briefcase but shoeprints were found not only on the briefcase but also HI-TEC shoeprints were found across the basement floor, shoeprints that didn't match the parents! They never owned this pair.

There have been many experts that have stated that those are stun gun marks.

On the 2 night CBS docseries, and specifically part 2 - if it can now be found, they dispelled the "stun-gun" theory with someone who volunteered to take a hit in the same place as JB had marks. He did this twice. It was proven by Dr. Werner Spitz after this, that the stun gun was not the instrument to make these marks, but it was a railroad track owned by JB. The end of it as a portion that connected to another part of the track. The tracks left in the basement.

This R.R. train track, has connections in order to connect one part to the other.

The speculation is he killed (hit her with the flashlight) in the kitchen, but the tracks were in the basement, and Spitz thought he poked her with it to see if she was indeed dead because she wasn't moving. The marks fit perfectly, matching up with the end of the track. Sounds plausible to me. The stun gun would not have knocked her out they said, only made her yell and scream.

The fact that the marks were a perfect match to the RR track, said it all to me.

 

[Jarnie4451]

I believe Burke did it....the evidence for this is overwhelming....what really clinches it for me is JR calling his pilot and trying to get the hell out of Dodge within hours of finding his daughter's body...no parent who believes that an intruder murdered their child would want to leave without some answers

 

[Heymom]

After thinking about it for a while I would say NO, he wasn't involved! It all seems too implausible for me to believe he accidentally killed her and then the parents covering up for him. We would have to believe too many crazy things IMO for the family theory to be true. These piece of evidence that Lou Smit brought up are enough for me to trust the intruder theory -

The intruder left no footprints because he went around and avoided the snow - http://i.imgur.com/AzYkumz.png / http://i.imgur.com/7lThNRs.png / http://i.imgur.com/9Azf8FG.png
Foliage trapped underneath the metal grill, which the intruder moved to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/TWtMJep.png
And we see a disturbance when he landed his feet underneath the metal grill - http://i.imgur.com/1aRmDJs.png
The intruder left his fingerprints on the window he used to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/3YmHVpI.png
The intruder left a shoe print on the briefcase he used to escape the house - http://i.imgur.com/UCummhi.png
Left a shoe/sneaker mark on the wall and left the window open - http://i.imgur.com/KowhrYl.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét's stun gun marks - http://i.imgur.com/U82Ck5H.png
With the electric arch clearly seen here - http://i.imgur.com/E8lQ2E6.png / http://i.imgur.com/YVyNHuW.png
The garrote used to strangle JonBenét was pulled so hard and violently that pieces of her hair were stuck on it, you really think her parents or brother could have done that? - http://i.imgur.com/2Nyxga2.png / http://i.imgur.com/NdwTliI.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét was strangled so violently you can see red marks around her entire neck - http://i.imgur.com/BuwGhBz.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) So it wasn't just "planted" their by her parents to make it look like a strangulation. She really was severely strangled - http://i.imgur.com/solzTQ3.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) Her fingernail marks on her neck suggesting she was fighting back against the strangulation proving she was alive first & strangled. Then she was hit over the head that cracked her skull and died shortly after the blow - http://i.imgur.com/P7ydZLV.png

To me this makes more sense then the "family did it" theory. I can't see Burke hitting her so hard to crack her skull then the parents finding out and covering it up by strangling the daughter they loved very much in the basement to cause severe marks around JonBenét's neck, then sexually assaulting her, then breaking the glass window in the basement, leaving footprint marks, writing a note under great emotional stress and saying they would "behead" their own daughter? The language in the note suggests an intruder wrote it because the language used in the note would not come from an intelligent and caring person like Patsy who loved her daughter too much. Patsy or John didn't have that kind of vocabulary, sorry I just don't buy it. Leaving her dead and cold in the basement like that and pretending not to know where she is when the cops came, that's crazy.

Even the phone call makes sense when you accept the intruder theory. Patsy saying "what did you do?" "Help me Jesus" implies her not knowing anything! Why would she say that off the record when she knew nobody was listening to her, if she knew her daughter was dead in the basement she wouldn't have uttered those words. When they woke up in the morning they may have taught Burke did something to her that's why even John said "we're not speaking to you" but Burke was innocent, it was just a false assumption by them. No, these parents would have died for their children, they loved them too much, they had too much invested in them! You can just tell.

But Patsy did have that kind of language, especially one of her signature usages, "and hence." As a linguistics major, I can see signs of Patsy all throughout that note, and an intruder would NOT have left a 3 page letter as a ransom note. I know it's hard to imagine the terrible circumstances the parents found themselves in that night, or how it affected their thinking. But you cannot go on ignoring the evidence and focusing on red herrings.

JonBenet had been previously sexually abused. Feces were found in her room, on candy she had received. Pineapple was found in her intestines, although neither parent admitted to giving it to her and said she'd been asleep "zonked" as Patsy termed it. The scenario that makes the most sense is that the kids were up and were in the basement, maybe snooping through the packages in the basement, something happened and Burke struck JonBenet, not knowing he had cracked her skull (there was no blood from her scalp), and then he did a few other things. Maybe Patsy came down to find them and screamed when she saw the scene, and then after some consideration, the coverup began. I am still unsure when John was brought into it. On one hand I think Patsy couldn't have done what she did without him - on the other, it is unlikely that if he realized Patsy had written the ransom note, that he would have handed LE the very pad she wrote it on! Regardless, the intruder theory must be finally laid to rest. There is no evidence of an intruder.

 

[TTF14]

On the 2 night CBS docseries, and specifically part 2 - if it can now be found, they dispelled the "stun-gun" theory with someone who volunteered to take a hit in the same place as JB had marks. He did this twice. It was proven by Dr. Werner Spitz after this, that the stun gun was not the instrument to make these marks, but it was a railroad track owned by JB. The end of it as a portion that connected to another part of the track. The tracks left in the basement.

This R.R. train track, has connections in order to connect one part to the other.

The speculation is he killed (hit her with the flashlight) in the kitchen, but the tracks were in the basement, and Spitz thought he poked her with it to see if she was indeed dead because she wasn't moving. The marks fit perfectly, matching up with the end of the track. Sounds plausible to me. The stun gun would not have knocked her out they said, only made her yell and scream.

The fact that the marks were a perfect match to the RR track, said it all to me.

I wish they'd done the same experiment with the RR track.

 

[Errrr]

If he's put on trial for this, his questioning is going to go horribly with how he answers questions

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I see no reason to put him on trial. He was nine at the time. It's the parents who were obstructing justice and wasting a lot of resources on catching a figment of Patsy's imagination.

 

[TUB23]

On the 2 night CBS docseries, and specifically part 2 - if it can now be found, they dispelled the "stun-gun" theory with someone who volunteered to take a hit in the same place as JB had marks. He did this twice. It was proven by Dr. Werner Spitz after this, that the stun gun was not the instrument to make these marks, but it was a railroad track owned by JB. The end of it as a portion that connected to another part of the track. The tracks left in the basement.

This R.R. train track, has connections in order to connect one part to the other.

The speculation is he killed (hit her with the flashlight) in the kitchen, but the tracks were in the basement, and Spitz thought he poked her with it to see if she was indeed dead because she wasn't moving. The marks fit perfectly, matching up with the end of the track. Sounds plausible to me. The stun gun would not have knocked her out they said, only made her yell and scream.

The fact that the marks were a perfect match to the RR track, said it all to me.

Detective Fred Patterson interviewed Burke that morning (December 26th) and he stated that Burke had no idea that his sister was dead, Burke only thought his sister was missing, because this is what he was told. The detective said he was straightforward with him, didn't hold anything back and appeared to be completely honest. Burke would have to be some very super intelligent, crazy smart, insane/manipulative maniac to lie/pretend that well to a grown adult who was a detective.

In another documentary the leading British government forensic pathologist Stuart Hamilton looked at the marks on JonBenét and was asked about the train track theory and he called it "highly unlikely" "if you look at the injury to the face it's a lot bigger then the train track marks" and that it "borders on the fanciful" to believe such hogwash. The marks on her body and face cannot be explained by the train tracks, the train track would have left small very light marks these were bigger and bolder injuries, that left an electric arc that a train track cannot do!

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't know who was advising the Ramseys but they would do very well to have never spoken and never speak again. That first interview with John and Patsy surely did not garner them any fans. This Dr. Phil interview did no positives for Burke.

Like another poster stated up thread most of us had forgotten all about the little boy whose sister was found dead.

Now with his appearance and strange answers and behavior we have a million questions.

The picture in my mind of Burke was always a little boy caught in something terrible. Now I can't get his smiling face at very difficult questions about his murdered sister and his kind of 'I got away with it' attitued.

John does no better.

I did think it interesting in one of the shows I watched they seem to think a break might come from somebody John or Burke have talked to about what happened to Jon Bonet. I remember Natalie Holloway's mother dated John and Burke had a college girlfriend. Maybe they are hoping something was said to one of them or another they became close with.

Hope springs eternal!

 

[redheadedgal]

the myth of the stun gun @ http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

:gaah:

 

[Errrr]

Detective Fred Patterson interviewed Burke that morning (December 26th) and he stated that Burke had no idea that his sister was dead, Burke only thought his sister was missing, because this is what he was told. The detective said he was straightforward with him, didn't hold anything back and appeared to be completely honest. Burke would have to be some very super intelligent, crazy smart, insane/manipulative maniac to lie/pretend that well to a grown adult who was a detective.

In another documentary the leading British government forensic pathologist Stuart Hamilton looked at the marks on JonBenét and was asked about the train track theory and he called it "highly unlikely" "if you look at the injury to the face it's a lot bigger then the train track marks" and that it "borders on the fanciful" to believe such hogwash. The marks on her body and face cannot be explained by the train tracks, the train track would have left small very light marks these were bigger and bolder injuries, that left an electric arc that a train track cannot do!

How can they be sure at what point the train tracks might have been inflicted on JBR? Couldn't it have been some earlier to that night? If BR smashed her scull before bedtime, the parents might have sent him to bed and spent the rest of the night scheming? BR might not have known he killed her?

 

[Linda7NJ]

If I'm not mistaken photos of this "spider web" were never taken, hmmm... I wonder why. How can we believe what the cops saw if there's no picture evidence of it? The same cops who decided the parents were guilty from the first day? Plus if it was still intact by the time cops saw it it could have been re-spun. And I also believe that the intruder may have avoided it or the web was strong enough to stay intact even with some minimal contact.

You are mistaken. Photos as well as video were taken


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[TUB23]

But Patsy did have that kind of language, especially one of her signature usages, "and hence." As a linguistics major, I can see signs of Patsy all throughout that note, and an intruder would NOT have left a 3 page letter as a ransom note. I know it's hard to imagine the terrible circumstances the parents found themselves in that night, or how it affected their thinking. But you cannot go on ignoring the evidence and focusing on red herrings.

JonBenet had been previously sexually abused. Feces were found in her room, on candy she had received. Pineapple was found in her intestines, although neither parent admitted to giving it to her and said she'd been asleep "zonked" as Patsy termed it. The scenario that makes the most sense is that the kids were up and were in the basement, maybe snooping through the packages in the basement, something happened and Burke struck JonBenet, not knowing he had cracked her skull (there was no blood from her scalp), and then he did a few other things. Maybe Patsy came down to find them and screamed when she saw the scene, and then after some consideration, the coverup began. I am still unsure when John was brought into it. On one hand I think Patsy couldn't have done what she did without him - on the other, it is unlikely that if he realized Patsy had written the ransom note, that he would have handed LE the very pad she wrote it on! Regardless, the intruder theory must be finally laid to rest. There is no evidence of an intruder.

JonBenét's doctor said he didn't see any proof of sexual abuse, case closed! The feces prove nothing but Burke acting out as most kids do his age, maybe a little extreme but I've seen kids act out in similar ways, doesn't mean they're killers.

 

[HarmonyE.]

How can they be sure at what point the train tracks might have been inflicted on JBR? Couldn't it have been some earlier to that night? If BR smashed her scull before bedtime, the parents might have sent him to bed and spent the rest of the night scheming? BR might not have known he killed her?

My understanding is that they were considered postmortem by Spitz because of the lack of blood pooling. This may be why Kolar wouldn't rule out Burke being the one who did the strangulation as well, as the train track poking was most likely done by a child.

*Just editing to clarify that Kolar did not say anything in the CBS show about Burke and the garrote, but it's implied in his book that he felt it was probable the same individual hit her on the head and strangled her.

 

[RL2]

I remember first reading Kolar's book and dismissing the theory of Burke being able to do anything other than possibly causing the initial head blow.

I really wondered if Kolar was using reverse-psychology to trick Burke into breaking down and talking about that night.... maybe confessing that he saw his mother strike JB????

Now, since he has spoken, I am more inclined to think BDI.. more, importantly Burke KNOWS a lot more than he's ever let on...

If Burke ever comes out and talks about what he witnessed that night and morning of the murder (assuming PDI), is anyone even going to believe what he says?