What was Casey's plan?

[leandjl]

Obviously Casey is not much of a planner - she stole Amy's checks and used them while she was in PR, even down to using one on the 15th - right before Amy came home - what sort of a plan could she possibly have had to explain that little theft away - the girl didn't plan on anything beyond the next night at Fusian! Oh, wait, maybe her little my space/facebook note to Amy about "I'd better not see you on the web tonight, life is on hold until tomorrow" was her plan to avoid Amy checking her bank records - for one more day. So, she did have planning - in the twelve hour time frame!

 

[nursebeeme]

her plan was her kidnapping cherade complete with chloroform and threats to family and a script of what to do for a month.

premeditation can happen in the blink of an eye...if you knowingly kill someone and plan to cover it up...even if the thoughts are simultaneous....it is premed.

Would bet a few bucks that the chloroform searches were done after Caylee was dead. Would think perhaps she made some or purchased some and doused the trunk with it to fit her story. She left a bag in the car, carseat, backpacks, etc like she was planting things and prepositioning them.

that's my thoughts anyhow....

ETA: I think she had Caylee's body in there a short period of time and did not think that smell would "stick" and that the chloroform fumes could cover up anything that was remaining.... again just some thinking....

 

[Jolynna]

but how long before she was found out? that is not a plan. Knowing her mom and her dad, she must have known that eventually she was going to have to produce Caylee. Caylee's birthday was coming up.

Cindy and George didn't know where Casey was. They didn't even have Amy's phone number (they got that from Casey's car).

Casey could legally go anywhere she wanted. She is an adult. She could take Caylee with her. She's the mom.

Casey wasn't missing. She texted. She said Caylee was with her. What evidence did Cindy or George have that pointed to Caylee being in danger. Her mother had her.

How would Cindy and George make Casey produce Caylee? It isn't against the law to cut your parents out of your life.

 

[Chanler]

Casey doesn't have plans; she has multiple improvisations; sometimes successive, sometimes several at once. In some cases, the lies outlast their immediate usefulness, but she keeps hanging on to them. In some cases, new lies are created to patch up old lies: For example, the story about kidnappers ordering her to follow their orders for a set period, thus providing an excuse for her weird behavior during the interim.

As one poster wisely suggested, she takes one day at a time.

Casey is postponing her arrest for homicide or manslaughter, but nullifying her chances of acquittal.

 

[amethyst221]

Nurseb,

Totally agree about that use of the chloroform being to suggest kidnapping, or even as a dumb way to try to cover up the terrible trunk smell (not a matter of cleaning, though). She could have just found the stuff in a shed (nobody would ever tell) and then looked it up online.

 

[future criminologist]

One thing I thought Nancy G. said last night that was interesting...
Premeditated murder can happen when you pick up the weapon and commit it. It doesn't have to be well planned out in advance.

I heard that too...and remember...if it wasn't premeditated they can still find her guilty of second-degree murder, but if she concealed the body after the fact, that tacks on charges, so she could still spend what would amount to a life sentence in jail. (25-50 years I want to say).

 

[amethyst221]

Cindy and George didn't know where Casey was. They didn't even have Amy's phone number (they got that from Casey's car).

Casey could legally go anywhere she wanted. She is an adult. She could take Caylee with her. She's the mom.

Casey wasn't missing. She texted. She said Caylee was with her. What evidence did Cindy or George have that pointed to Caylee being in danger. Her mother had her.

How would Cindy and George make Casey produce Caylee? It isn't against the law to cut your parents out of your life.

True, but they could eventually get worried and take action that would call attention to Casey, maybe make her run up against someone who could demand answers, like LE. That's exactly what happened to her after the car screw up. Casey had custody, but the GP's would never just go quietly away forever. Casey knew that, and was buying time from day to day with new excuses, like gone to J'ville.

 

[yolorado]

She's not always a planner. She flies by the seat of her pants a lot and, until now, made it up as she went along. Before she could mostly get away with the lies because most people accepted her at face value, or because she was their princess and/or they wuvved her so they either didn't discover the ruses cuz they were busy with their own lives or they covered for her. But this time, when the stakes couldn't be higher, and when people are asking tough questions and demanding precise and truthful answers which they'll checkout, she's kind of stuck because lies aren't going to work and the truth is going to hurt her (IMO). I think at the moment she was caught, her plan was to come up with a plan...eventually.

 

[future criminologist]

FYI - defining terms:

First degree murder: In order for someone to be found guilty of first degree murder the government must prove that the person killed another person; the person killed the other person with malice aforethought; and the killing was premeditated. To kill with malice aforethought means to kill either deliberately and intentionally or recklessly with extreme disregard for human life. Premeditation means with planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the killing.

Second degree murder: Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

 

[Jolynna]

Cindy and George actually thought Casey was out of town in Jacksonville with Caylee at a new job.

They didn't know she was in Orlando until they found out the car was impounded. Casey could text her mom and tell her she was anywhere.

Casey fooled her family into thinking she had a job for two years. Maybe she thought she could fool them into believing she was working in Jacksonville for two years. She was telling her mom some nonsense about how she and Caylee needed "alone time" to bond to explain to Cindy why Cindy couldn't see or talk to Caylee.

In the meantime, Casey is childless and free to work on winning Tony without distraction. And Casey can tell Cindy she is BONDING and WORKING...all that stuff her parents have been nagging her to do.

Cindy doesn't know where Casey was, she didn't have Amy's phone number or know how to find her, she hadn't met Tony, she didn't even know what town Casey was in. There was no indication Casey or Caylee weren't fine. Casey was staying in touch. Most grandparents don't think their children capable of killing their grandchildren. Cindy may have been afraid calling LE would alienate Casey even more. The stinky car brought everything to a head.

IMO

 

[not_my_kids]

If she had a plan at all, I think that she planned to give or sell Caylee to someone. Maybe she said something about wanting some money and selling her kid and someone else thought it was a joke and started "joking" back. I know a lot of people that will take a joke too far. So it's possible that she thought she really might be able to get rid of Caylee and get some money in the process. (She could have given her to Cindy and George, but then, no pay-off.)
She was already making plans for a new life, planning what to spend her new fortune on and then, voila, after drugging Caylee and driving her to the proposed meeting spot finds out that there is no deal, no buyer. She loses it, maybe Caylee starts to wake it up and Casey is forced to deal with a child that she was all set to never have to see again.
She snaps, either beating her to death or overdosing her until she can figure out what to do and the rest is history.
Side note: I think that this explains the mini-vacation too.
She plans to send a change of clothes with Caylee, grab her cash and disappear.
Just a theory.

 

[karenmamo]

Casey doesn't have plans; she has multiple improvisations; sometimes successive, sometimes several at once. In some cases, the lies outlast their immediate usefulness, but she keeps hanging on to them. In some cases, new lies are created to patch up old lies: For example, the story about kidnappers ordering her to follow their orders for a set period, thus providing an excuse for her weird behavior during the interim.

As one poster wisely suggested, she takes one day at a time.

Casey is postponing her arrest for homicide or manslaughter, but nullifying her chances of acquittal.

Agree with your words!
"One day at a time"....and I think almost moment by moment. I do not think she has much ability to plan. Seems she uses up most of her brain capacity weaving lies...to others and especially to herself.
Also do not believe Casey had any sort of plan.
Out of sight, out of mind comes to me.
I think someone else felt they had to step in and help her out.....she did not place the remains in a place well hidden. IMO

 

[Short_Stuff]

I dont know what to think anymore. I orginally thought Caylee suffocated in the hot car while Casey was partying, now with the Choloform that could have killed Caylee thus accident OR premeditated because she was looking it up on the net.
This is what I always wondered, WHY was no one answering Casyes phone calls or at least calling her back? When I miss a call from one of my kids I always call back. That leads me to believe they were fighting.
And I agree, I think Casey intended to disappear for good.

 

[sweetmop]

I don't believe Casey has plans. She lives day to day in a make believe world.
Thinking up huge elaborate lies to impress people.Thinking of even more elaborate lies to mask the void of any love in her heart.
You've heard the saying " They would sell their soul to the devil"?
I think Casey did that a long time ago. And the evil, dishonest, corrupt and ugly way of life took over! Plus it was more exciting, and gave her more fuel for her great lies!
Her baby Caylee came in handy for a while. Caylee's birth and babyhood got alot of attention and Casey too was basking in that attention, but soon she saw that people paid just a little more attention to Caylee, than her.
Caylee became a noose around her neck. And she needed rid of her.:furious:

 

[Mom of Five]

I have a sister who has a lot of the same mental deficiencies that CA seems to have. She has borderline personality disorder and Histrionic personality disorder. She has violently attacked family members as well as friends. She's stolen money and personal property as well as emotionally battered her loved ones. My husband and I are in the process of adopting her baby. Sometimes I actually think my sister is worse than CA:twocents:, the only thing that really separates the two is that my sister didn't have the opportunity to kill her baby whether on purpose or by mistake. The most important thing to remember with people like this is that you can't use reason when trying to undestand their actions. They will tell you the most ridiculous things and they really can't understand why you don't believe them.
Here's a great example of how a girl like this thinks. My sister knew she was pregnant but didn't tell anyone. Her plan was to get an abortion, like she's done so many times before. She was just so busy partying that she lost track of time. She finally got so big that she could no longer deny to her party pals that she was pregnant so she went down to the local abortion clinic but they wouldn't do the procedure because she was too far along. That's when she finally told my parents and then acted as if she was turning over a new leaf in order to get them to help her out financially.
The point of my story is she had no real plan and she had no real conception of time and by the way no idea of who the dad was. She actually put a guys name on the BC but we quickly realized that there was no way he could be the father because of his dark ethnicity and the baby's white skin and blue eyes, (sister's are brown).
CA reminds me so much of my sister and the GP's are a lot like my parent's. I have actually cut off communication with my own parent's because of their inability to stop enabling my sister.

 

[Cagney]

I vote for premeditated, although no one ever claimed that she was the brightest bulb in the pack. Her "plan" wasn't well thought out.
The chloroform and searches keep leading me back to premeditation...

 

[suspicious mind]

I think she had been pulling off lies to her mom for so long that she actually believed she was good at it. I only say mom because I think GA gave up on trying to get CA to see thru casey's lies a long tie ago b/c he just couldn't win. I am sure that CA always stuck up for KC and GA was always the bad guy to KC, just b/c he was hip to her crap. on with her plan....she thought she was an excellent and witty liar (oh boy I sure fooled mom with those fake emails from my job!!) but she didn't realize CA only believed her b/c it's easier for CA to live in denial than to deal with the truth.( I know soooo many people like this, it's a complete lack of a coping mechanism)

So casey thinks she is an expert liar. I think whatever happened was 1/2 accident, 1/2 premeditated. I think deep down she wanted to be rid of her. I think Caylee was hurt very badly by her mom, and could have been saved, but casey knew she would be in big trouble for causing such harm to her. I think casey let her die and made no attempt to save her. Her plan after that was to just wait til the heat was on. She didn't seem to think there was much urgency in coming up with a solid plan after all she could snowball her mom for years! I think she put caylee in the dumpster at sawgrass, wrote down some random license plate #s to look up later and decide on a name, just in case she was discovered. Ultimately, I think she planned to move out to Cali, keep telling her parents caylee was with her, tell the guy in Cali that Caylee was his and that she let someone adopt her. Basically keep up the charade 3000 miles away. She in no way ever dreamed that amy would bring her mom to tony's. man I would love to see a polaroid of her face when CA walked in.

 

[soyesterday]

I vote no plan too. I don't think it was premeditated, or at least for very long. If she was jealous of Caylee and had a fight with her parents, I could see her impulsively killing Caylee...strangling her or smothering her, or beating her. Or maybe she lost her temper with Caylee, or maybe it was an accident due to serious negligence, like drugging with Zanny or leaving her in a car.

After seeing 20/20 and watching all the videos and seeing all the pics of her and caylee...
they looked so happy...
it's so hard to imagine that she would hurt her like that and show no remorse....

 

[soyesterday]

I think she had been pulling off lies to her mom for so long that she actually believed she was good at it. I only say mom because I think GA gave up on trying to get CA to see thru casey's lies a long tie ago b/c he just couldn't win. I am sure that CA always stuck up for KC and GA was always the bad guy to KC, just b/c he was hip to her crap. on with her plan....she thought she was an excellent and witty liar (oh boy I sure fooled mom with those fake emails from my job!!) but she didn't realize CA only believed her b/c it's easier for CA to live in denial than to deal with the truth.( I know soooo many people like this, it's a complete lack of a coping mechanism)

So casey thinks she is an expert liar. I think whatever happened was 1/2 accident, 1/2 premeditated. I think deep down she wanted to be rid of her. I think Caylee was hurt very badly by her mom, and could have been saved, but casey knew she would be in big trouble for causing such harm to her. I think casey let her die and made no attempt to save her. Her plan after that was to just wait til the heat was on. She didn't seem to think there was much urgency in coming up with a solid plan after all she could snowball her mom for years! I think she put caylee in the dumpster at sawgrass, wrote down some random license plate #s to look up later and decide on a name, just in case she was discovered. Ultimately, I think she planned to move out to Cali, keep telling her parents caylee was with her, tell the guy in Cali that Caylee was his and that she let someone adopt her. Basically keep up the charade 3000 miles away. She in no way ever dreamed that amy would bring her mom to tony's. man I would love to see a polaroid of her face when CA walked in.

But why???
Why would she hurt her or not help her?
How could she do that to her sweet little girl?
What happened?
Did she snap?
Do you think she looked happy in the pics and videos of her w/ caylee?
Or
Do you think she was really good at faking and painting on her smile?
Could she hurt just any child or only hers cuz she so badly didn't want her?
How could she hurt the precious baby she carried and gave birth to?
And why.....
I can't understand it.....

 

[concentric]

I don't know what I think about premeditation before the fact. It seems a lot of things in her life were unraveling, being revealed. No job, stealing, resentment at being a tied down single mother still answering to her parents. She was sleeping with multi guys, so needing affirmation, then latched onto TL. I think it was all pushing toward a rupture with her family. She wanted to party down with the single crowd; they probably expected her to be a more responsible mother while living under their roof. Something happened that made her leave with Caylee, rather than leave her behind. Major battle for control. Was moving into Tony's with Caylee an option?? How mad was she at her mother? If she had a terrible accident with Caylee within mere hours of moving out on her own with her, that has to be the most horrible piece of bad luck and coincidence ever. Ever.

She did what she did and she went to TL's, where she did feel safer and calmer. I think she may have meant to leave eventually, but she liked this little interlude in her life, being a perfect GF, forgetting while she was having fun. This couldn't go on forever with her parents right in the same city, though, calling and wanting to see their granddaughter. I think she had a rough "plan" to leave. We know now the car drop off worked because she lied to TL, and then he left for a while. While he was gone, she got her moral support from being around Amy. She had a man on the line in CA. Maybe she was just going to run. Maybe the car was going to be part of a story of carjacking and kidnapping. Casey would maybe/maybe not turn up again somewhere with a story; Caylee wouldn't turn up. Thinking about this is too creepy, but that's my general idea. A certain amount of going with the flow, but a sort of plan.

----------------------------
I agree with you for the most part, and have stated as much in my prior postings, although you added some elements that I have not been able to keep up with. I still think she gave Caylee some medication to put her to sleep in the car and forgot about her and she expired in the car from heat exposure. Do you think that the Chloroform was placed on Caylee's body in the trunk to make it look more like a kidnapping? What about this thought--her subconscious wish was that Caylee would be removed from her life; however, she still sees it as an accident.