When Parents Kill..

[Ames]

According to the article regarding motives...

"Researchers, building on the work of Phillip Resnick, have shown that women tend to kill their own offspring for one of several reasons: because the child is unwanted; out of mercy; as a result of some mental illness in the mother; in retaliation against a spouse; as a result of abuse. Frequent themes are that they themselves deserved to be punished, that killing the children would be an altruistic or loving act, or that children need to be "erased" in order to save or preserve a relationship. Contrast this with the reasons men kill their children: Most frequently—like Garcia or Soltys—they kill because they feel they have lost control over their finances, or their families, or the relationship, or out of revenge for a perceived slight or infidelity. The consistent idea is that women usually kill their children either because they are angry at themselves or because they want to destroy that which they created, whereas more often than not, men kill their children to get back at a woman—to take away what she most cherishes."

None of this fits in the Ramsey case.

No one is suggesting mothers don't kill, we are suggesting that the motives, the way in which they are killed and the hindsight that reveals behavior of the perp. parent that should have been more of a concern are factors that are present in every case. The patterns do not fit this case.

Mothers kill their children. Not all children killed are killed by their mothers.

Well, see...that depends on which RDI you ask. Some believe that Patsy DID kill JB out of mercy. She knew that the head wound was so horrific, that JB, if she lived...would most likely be brain dead. So..that's where the garotte came in. Just out of curiosity....how do YOU explain away Patsy's fibers found entwined in the garotte, inside of the paint tote..and on the STICKY side of the tape covering JB's mouth?

 

[icedtea4me]

I don't make anything of it specifically. What do you?

Are you inferring from ONE interview that you can relate this to motive as described in the article? Please share.

I think Patsy felt the need to allude to Susan Smith because she felt the need to confess as to why JonBenet was killed. Why do you think Patsy felt the need to allude to Susan Smith?

 

[ziggy]

I do not recall the context in which she mentioned Susan Smith. I did a CNN search and a find for "Susan" and came up empty. Would you share that transcript or portion of it?

It wholly depends on the context.

 

[Ames]

I do not recall the context in which she mentioned Susan Smith. I did a CNN search and a find for "Susan" and came up empty. Would you share that transcript or portion of it?

It wholly depends on the context.

Hi Ziggy...
I found this...it is from the Ramsey's CNN interview.




RAMSEY, P: You know, America has just been hurt so deeply with the -- this -- the tragic things that have happened. The young woman who drove her children into the water, and we don't know what happened with the O.J. Simpson -- and I mean, America is suffering because have lost faith in the American family. We are a Christian, God-fearing family. We love our children. We would do anything for our children.

 

[ziggy]

Hi Ziggy...
I found this...it is from the Ramsey's CNN interview.




RAMSEY, P: You know, America has just been hurt so deeply with the -- this -- the tragic things that have happened. The young woman who drove her children into the water, and we don't know what happened with the O.J. Simpson -- and I mean, America is suffering because have lost faith in the American family. We are a Christian, God-fearing family. We love our children. We would do anything for our children.

OOO thank you!

OK, my initial thoughts: I think in true Southern woman form, she is trying to explain why people have been so quick to blame them and find a way to give them a pass.

She is empathizing with those who accuse her, perhaps not because she is guilty but because when the mind asks, "why?" it never stops searching for an answer. And this is how she is dealing with it.

She follows up with differentiating their family from the ones she just mentioned.

Don't you think she has a good point?

The more mothers kill their children and husbands kill their wives and children, the easier it is to believe it's the case every time and that is not fair to real vicitms.

And, the easier it becomes to imagine all these terrible things where terrible things may not exist. It clouds our ability to be objective.

Susan Smith had many troubles, sexual molestation etc. and don't even get started on O.J.!!

Recent cases - Scott Peterson and others - affairs, lies, sociopathy and on & on.

Yes, we have all lost faith in the family.

The Ramseys may have seemed entitled, over the top, eccentric, however non of these obvious problems that shine the light on motives in other cases appear to us here - even after years of being under the microscope.

Some mothers kill their children.
JonBenet was killed.
Therefore, JonBenet's mother killed her.

That logic doesn't work.

 

[madeleine]

Hi Ziggy,


"Some mothers kill their children.
JonBenet was killed.
Therefore, JonBenet's mother killed her.

That logic doesn't work. "



I don't think that there's anyone around here who thinks like that.I personally just disagree with the "the crime was so brutal therefore it wasn't a parent" line,that's all.

 

[Ames]

Hi Ziggy,


"Some mothers kill their children.
JonBenet was killed.
Therefore, JonBenet's mother killed her.

That logic doesn't work. "



I don't think that there's anyone around here who thinks like that.I personally just disagree with the "the crime was so brutal therefore it wasn't a parent" line,that's all.

That's the part that I don't agree with either. Even one of the members on the GJ said that she thought that the Ramsey's were innocent BECAUSE a mother wouldn't do that to her own child. Mothers kill their children every single day....and for different reasons. And yes...alot of them are because of toilet rage. I, for one...do NOT believe that Patsy INTENTIONALLY killed JB. I believe that it was a horrible accident...turned cover-up.

 

[Ames]

OOO thank you!

OK, my initial thoughts: I think in true Southern woman form, she is trying to explain why people have been so quick to blame them and find a way to give them a pass.

She is empathizing with those who accuse her, perhaps not because she is guilty but because when the mind asks, "why?" it never stops searching for an answer. And this is how she is dealing with it.

She follows up with differentiating their family from the ones she just mentioned.

Don't you think she has a good point?

The more mothers kill their children and husbands kill their wives and children, the easier it is to believe it's the case every time and that is not fair to real vicitms.

And, the easier it becomes to imagine all these terrible things where terrible things may not exist. It clouds our ability to be objective.

Susan Smith had many troubles, sexual molestation etc. and don't even get started on O.J.!!

Recent cases - Scott Peterson and others - affairs, lies, sociopathy and on & on.

Yes, we have all lost faith in the family.

The Ramseys may have seemed entitled, over the top, eccentric, however non of these obvious problems that shine the light on motives in other cases appear to us here - even after years of being under the microscope.

Some mothers kill their children.
JonBenet was killed.
Therefore, JonBenet's mother killed her.

That logic doesn't work.

You are welcome!

 

[BBB167893]

Thing about overkill is that an inexperienced criminal with little knowledge of infant anatomy probably would over-estimate the amount of violence needed to harm a child so the crime could presumably have been committed by any adult amateur crim - including parents.

You just hit the nail on the head, Sophie!

 

[BBB167893]

What do you think of Patsy's need in her January 1, 1997 CNN interview to allude to Susan Smith, a woman who killed her children because she felt they stood in the way of a relationship she wanted?

Not to mention her statement that JB was better off dead. I've been wiating for a chance to work that one in.

 

[BBB167893]

Hi Ziggy...
I found this...it is from the Ramsey's CNN interview.




RAMSEY, P: You know, America has just been hurt so deeply with the -- this -- the tragic things that have happened. The young woman who drove her children into the water, and we don't know what happened with the O.J. Simpson -- and I mean, America is suffering because have lost faith in the American family. We are a Christian, God-fearing family. We love our children. We would do anything for our children.

Yeah, two guilty people. The context just makes it worse.

 

[DeeDee249]

While I do believe the garroting followed the head bash, it wasn't to "finish her off", mercifully or otherwise.
The head bash produced no EXTERNAL apparent cause of death. No external blood, no open wound or gash. IMO, a VISIBLE cause of death was needed. That's why they staged a strangulation.

 

[BBB167893]

While I do believe the garroting followed the head bash, it wasn't to "finish her off", mercifully or otherwise.
The head bash produced no EXTERNAL apparent cause of death. No external blood, no open wound or gash. IMO, a VISIBLE cause of death was needed. That's why they staged a strangulation.

Not just that. Strangulation is a clean crime. By that I mean it doesn't make a bloody mess you'd have to clean up. (I'm going to hell for this, I just know it.)

 

[DeeDee249]

Not just that. Strangulation is a clean crime. By that I mean it doesn't make a bloody mess you'd have to clean up. (I'm going to hell for this, I just know it.)

No, you're not.

Hell is here- on this side of the "veil".

 

[ziggy]

Hi Ziggy,


"Some mothers kill their children.
JonBenet was killed.
Therefore, JonBenet's mother killed her.

That logic doesn't work. "



I don't think that there's anyone around here who thinks like that.I personally just disagree with the "the crime was so brutal therefore it wasn't a parent" line,that's all.

I don't think parents are incapable of committing brutality to their children and therefore a parent couldn't have done it. And I'll bet, once again cuz I"m feelin' lucky that none of the regular IDI posters have ever insinuated that this is the only counter argument here, but that you've tried to pin that on them/us. Let me put it this way:

Some parents brutally murder their children. True. However there are always other factors involved that do not fit in this case.

I am saying that the logic used in saying PR constructed and designed the cover up makes no sense because of the brutality in it COMBINED with no prior violent acts or pathological/deviant behavior.

You can't sweep this fact under the carpet: (dyed to match the drapes, lol)
In order to have this kind of brutality, you also need to have some mental health issues, psychopathy, prior violence, drugs something known to the murdering parent other than, "The R's just though they were all that and a bag of chips!"

The simplistic argument that you just stated says to me you aren't understanding that a combination of factors must be present to support a logical conclusion.

 

[madeleine]

I don't think parents are incapable of committing brutality to their children and therefore a parent couldn't have done it. And I'll bet, once again cuz I"m feelin' lucky that none of the regular IDI posters have ever insinuated that this is the only counter argument here, but that you've tried to pin that on them/us. Let me put it this way:

Some parents brutally murder their children. True. However there are always other factors involved that do not fit in this case.

I am saying that the logic used in saying PR constructed and designed the cover up makes no sense because of the brutality in it COMBINED with no prior violent acts or pathological/deviant behavior.

You can't sweep this fact under the carpet: (dyed to match the drapes, lol)
In order to have this kind of brutality, you also need to have some mental health issues, psychopathy, prior violence, drugs something known to the murdering parent other than, "The R's just though they were all that and a bag of chips!"

The simplistic argument that you just stated says to me you aren't understanding that a combination of factors must be present to support a logical conclusion.

Yep I guess I'm young and unexperienced just like ST.

And re mental health issues&Ramsey's pls allow me to laugh.Maybe we DO understand "normal" different.

 

[ziggy]

I so wish I understood that reply.

 

[BBB167893]

I am saying that the logic used in saying PR constructed and designed the cover up makes no sense because of the brutality in it COMBINED with no prior violent acts or pathological/deviant behavior.

It LOOKED brutal, to be sure.

You can't sweep this fact under the carpet: (dyed to match the drapes, lol)

If it WERE a fact.

In order to have this kind of brutality, you also need to have some mental health issues, psychopathy, prior violence, drugs something known to the murdering parent other than, "The R's just though they were all that and a bag of chips!"

I guess we'd better let Casey Anthony go, then! Narcissism is a CLASSIC form of pathology, and throughout history has caused terrible crimes.

The simplistic argument that you just stated says to me you aren't understanding that a combination of factors must be present to support a logical conclusion.

There are PLENTY of factors to support this conclusion, in my view.

 

[ziggy]

SuperDave:

So it only looked brutal? Really. How do you explain that it was simply an illusion?

Casey Anthony is a sociopath and perhaps psychopath. Having narcissitic tendancies is not the same thing. PR is not and has never been accused by those who know her to be a sociopath. She has a conscience. A sociopath have never apologized for anything because they never think they are wrong. PR was not a compulsive liar and was not involved in high risk behavior as a truly disturbed person may be.

Your comparison is laughable.

Like I said...AFTER THE FACT...we learn these things about the suspected perp.
You cannot make an analogy here because we have nothing similar about PR that relates to KC Anthony either before or after the crime was committed.

 

[Ames]

SuperDave:

So it only looked brutal? Really. How do you explain that it was simply an illusion?

Casey Anthony is a sociopath and perhaps psychopath. Having narcissitic tendancies is not the same thing. PR is not and has never been accused by those who know her to be a sociopath. She has a conscience. A sociopath have never apologized for anything because they never think they are wrong. PR was not a compulsive liar and was not involved in high risk behavior as a truly disturbed person may be.

Your comparison is laughable.

Like I said...AFTER THE FACT...we learn these things about the suspected perp.
You cannot make an analogy here because we have nothing similar about PR that relates to KC Anthony either before or after the crime was committed.

You obviously haven't read what LHP...the Ramsey housekeeper has had to say about Patsy.

We, the posters here...were not around Patsy. LHP was..and also JM, her ex-best friend. And they BOTH believe that she is guilty....even Marc Klaas believes that it was an "inside job", done by one of the parents. LHP and JM knew Patsy better than anybody.