"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[Venom]

She didn't even bother searching on the night. She ran out of the apartment without searching it to scream she'd been abducted.

This is just me, but wouldn't someone who goes in and can't find their child, call her name, look around the place to see if she was hiding? My youngest, she's 3, has a habit of curling up in her corner next to her toybox with her blankie and books. What if MM had just hid somewhere in the apartment...the mom not doing a quick check of the apartment gets my hinky meter going up.

Also, the night that MM went missing is the first night that they did the half hourly checks, correct?

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is just me, but wouldn't someone who goes in and can't find their child, call her name, look around the place to see if she was hiding? My youngest, she's 3, has a habit of curling up in her corner next to her toybox with her blankie and books. What if MM had just hid somewhere in the apartment...the mom not doing a quick check of the apartment gets my hinky meter going up.

Also, the night that MM went missing is the first night that they did the half hourly checks, correct?

If you believe them, yes.

I don't.


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[Sleuth5]

Sleuthing is not one sided. It is a process. AS for myself, I don't accuse people of things until there is proof. I don't make up wild stories about crazy things happening unless there is proof that any such thing occurred. I think sleuthing is a responsible art, That does not slander people or make up stories, But takes each piece of evidence and looks for a way for it to fit. To either exonerate or convict.

Thanks, Scarlett. That seems a reasonable definition of sleuthing, and gives us something to think about.

 

[Sleuth5]

Of course they are still looking but after a while you run out of places to look. It is not like it was a park or a back yard, It is the whole entire world.. That takes more than people just walking around with sticks.

They have been searching for years.. and will never stop I bet.

Thanks, Scarlett. The world is an enormous place to search, and it's reasonable to point out that we ought to be patient. Sometimes, it's easy to forget what a truly enormous task that can be.

 

[goldengirl57]

Sorry? Why would she assume and abductor if there were no reason to? Why not assume Madeleine woke and tried to find them?

The day before according to the McCanns they were berated by their 4 year old for not coming to her when she sat crying in her bed for over an hour.

Now what would you do the next night.

a. Stay with the children and eat together perhaps spending more time on their penultimate night.
b. Put them to bed early somehow get them asleep and then go out.

I would have chosen a.

Now knowing that your child was beside herself the night before crying and you went to check her and found her missing the first thing you would do is assume she had wandered off looking for her parents after you had made a search of the apartment.

They all had mobile phones didnt they? I mean who doesnt nowadays. You ring your husband and say come back quick Maddy is missing tell everyone to check on the way round make sure she isnt hiding. You stay put because you have other children to care for.

Now we are talking about a TRAINED DOCTOR HERE, someone who is used to dealing with emergencys and such things, not someone who would just PANIC.

I have lost a child too, and my first instinct was to look for her with my heart in my mouth I searched the house and called her name. I grabbed my other daughter knocked on the door and practically shoved her onto my neighbour and told her what was happening. I ran towards an area which was bushy and had flowers and stuff, and found her toddling along like nothing had happened.

Your first instinct is to look for the child, then the second instinct is to secure other children...well it is in my book anyway.

The one puzzle for me in all this. Why didnt the twins wake up?

 

[lawstudent]

Yeah, the fact that her mind went to "abductor" is bizarre. The first thing I'd think is she wandered off - I would run to a nearby pool, check with the front desk, run around calling. Now, I'm not saying everyone behaves logically, but I would never think abduction first.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yeah, the fact that her mind went to "abductor" is bizarre. The first thing I'd think is she wandered off - I would run to a nearby pool, check with the front desk, run around calling. Now, I'm not saying everyone behaves logically, but I would never think abduction first.

Exactly.

Especially when, in the words of Kate herself "we thought they were safe".

How can you go from assuming your baby is safe where you left her, to "they've taken her" in nanoseconds?

Abduction would be the LAST thing such parents would suspect - the kids were "safe" after all.

:banghead:

 

[tezi]

Thanks, Scarlett. The world is an enormous place to search, and it's reasonable to point out that we ought to be patient. Sometimes, it's easy to forget what a truly enormous task that can be.

Yes, Sleuth5, they do say patience is a virtue....I just don't have another 15 years to wait!

JMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Things are finally moving.

The McCanns are drifting closer and closer to a witness box, ironically at their own hands. If they hadn't been so litigious and publicity hungry, they wouldn't have been re-examined. :lol: They would have got away with it entirely if they'd just shut up and disappeared silently back to where they came from.

The Tapas crew might not feel like repeating their inconsistencies in a court anymore either. Time has passed and allegiances change.

I can't wait.

:cow:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Things are finally moving.

The McCanns are drifting closer and closer to a witness box.

The Tapas crew might not feel like repeating their inconsistencies in a court, either. Time has passed and allegiances change.

I can't wait.

:cow:

Wouldn't that be terrific!

Reminds me of Fleet...and that other case...


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[LinasK]

Things are finally moving.

The McCanns are drifting closer and closer to a witness box, ironically at their own hands. If they hadn't been so litigious and publicity hungry, they wouldn't have been re-examined. :lol: They would have got away with it entirely if they'd just shut up and disappeared silently back to where they came from.

The Tapas crew might not feel like repeating their inconsistencies in a court anymore either. Time has passed and allegiances change.

I can't wait.

:cow:

Plus, the supposed sighting of Maddie can be confirmed/denied and DNA testing that wasn't available 15 years ago exists now!

 

[aust amateur slueth]

There has never been one shred of evidence of an abduction.

There is no "abductor".

The fact remains that Madeleine would not be missing if her parents had taken proper care of her.

They also knew that Madeleine and her baby brother had cried unattended for an hour and fifteen minutes the evening before, yet still did not choose to remain with their children. The fear and distress Madeleine must've experienced hearing her baby brother cry and being unable to help him, or indeed call for help, must have been incredibly traumatic, yet did not change her parents SELFISH behaviour one iota.

really there's been no shred of evidence of an abduction? that's very different to what Inspector Redwood said

Pre-planned abduction

"Madeleine McCann's disappearance does, on one reading of the evidence, have the hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction that would undoubtedly have involved reconnaissance so we are really keen to understand who all these people were," Inspector Redwood said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...ight-on-timeline/story-fni0xs61-1226739907655

 

[Morag]

I think that Scotland Yard is playing rope-a-dope with their prime suspect(s).

 

[chlban]

Linda7NJ;9894394

Not to open old wounds .... But even Casey Anthony's parents were out everyday handing out flyers and manning that station handing out water & stuff for searchers.

Yes, not too surprising really because I have never believed that Casey's parents had any part in her murder. It was obvious from Cindy's first phone call what she was afraid had happened. It was also obvious from her later denial that she truly wanted to believe Casey had not harmed the baby. So, I think they legitimitaley clung to the idea of searching for her. Clung to it as long as they could, and then just refused to turn on their evil, crazy daughter in the end.

The McCanns, OTOH, knew from minute one where their daughter was and that she wasn't going to be answering any calls.

 

[chlban]

SapphireSteel;

9894364Tell me - I lost my baby for six entire weeks. I nearly went hoarse. Finally late one night I got a squawk in return...she'd waited until it was dark and quiet to come home, maybe that's because she heard me then but not during the daytime.

I also knocked on every door in the neighbourhood, left notes and food for people if they saw her (a couple did and kept feeding her Thank God) and then went around and did it all again. And again. Called all the vets, even spoke to LE when I saw some at the servo but unfortunately they couldn't help.

I even put up flyers.

I am glad you got your baby back. My kitty went missing shortly after moving
and I was terrified he wouldn't be able to find his way back to the new place.
Thankfully he was only gone a couple of hours, just enough to give me heart failure.

However, during those hours, I walked the neighborhood, calling him, got into my car and drove back to the old house carefully watching as if he would have been strolling along on the sidewalk like a person (not thinking too rationally I guess). But the thing I remember was I could not sit still. I told myself to give it time, but I couldn't. Had to keep moving, keep calling for him, keep panicking. That was for my cat.

Kate never once called for her child. Never searched for her child. Kate knew instantly that she had been "taken". Not that she'd wandered off looking for mommy and daddy, fallen down stairs or made it somehow to the pool area. Nope, she knew , instantly, that she had been taken.

Amazing really

 

[chlban]

Morag;9901483]

I think that Scotland Yard is playing rope-a-dope with their prime suspect(s).

[/QUOTE]

That is my first instinct as well. If they aren't then it is they that are truly going to look like the dopes.

Even the LAPD would have confirmed the timelines and checked phone records well before now.

 

[Donjeta]

really there's been no shred of evidence of an abduction? that's very different to what Inspector Redwood said

Pre-planned abduction

"Madeleine McCann's disappearance does, on one reading of the evidence, have the hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction that would undoubtedly have involved reconnaissance so we are really keen to understand who all these people were," Inspector Redwood said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...ight-on-timeline/story-fni0xs61-1226739907655

"On one reading of the evidence..." So there are other readings.

I think he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

He also said that they think it could have been a burglary gone wrong.

DCI Redwood said he could be the man who took Madeleine - but there could be an innocent explanation.

He said there had been a four-fold increase in the number of burglaries in the area between January and May 2007 and one possible scenario was that Madeleine had disturbed a burglar.

"Windows were a feature, as well as burglaries taking place in the evening," he said.

If Madeleine disturbed a burglar that hardly seems pre-planned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24528530

 

[SapphireSteel]

If Madeleine disturbed a burglar, why weren't they burgled?

:waitasec:

 

[Venom]

What's the likelihood of a burglar turning a burglary into an abduction and possible murder?
Not likely. Chances are the burglar would just take what they wanted and leave or just leave.

 

[greenpalm]

I wanted to address the original title of this thread: "would you leave a child that young alone?"

I did planned to do something similar once in 2002 (So, several years before Madeleine disappeared. I might think harder about it after her story became so well known)

My husband and I were meeting friends for a vacation. We were all staying in the same hotel. They all had small children too. for just one of the evening we were together, we planned to put all the children to sleep, then meet in the hotel's common area, after dinner, which we ate with our children. We spent the day at a family themed amusement park. We had permission to bring wine ourselves and serve it in the common area.

My son was 22 months old.

I want to point out several differences.

1. This was a high rise hotel room with only one door which opened to an interior hallway.
2. We brought a baby monitor with us and we tested it earlier in the day to be sure we'd be able to hear him through it from the common area.
3. We were still physically in the same building that he was in, merely in another room, albeit at some distance.
4. He was sleeping in a pack and play so he couldn't climb out and wander away.
5. We didn't plan to visit for long.

But yes, we were planning to do something similar.