LeBlack
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,214
- Reaction score
- 9,228
NOT IMO
Found Deceased WI - Iliana Lily Peters, 10, left aunt's, didn't arr hm, bike fnd, Chippewa Falls, 24 Apr 22, *Arrest*
- Thread starter Unalienable Rights
- Start date
- Status
Seattle1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Messages
- 39,160
- Reaction score
- 408,027
Admittedly, I was somewhat taken back by the District Attorney repeating the juvenile's alleged confession-- a mere 24 hours ago or less since his arrest -- at the bond hearing!
Listening to the court proceeding live, I wasn't hearing that the youth waived his advisement or arraignment, but instead that his hearing to appoint counsel was not scheduled until May 5!
(Following an arrest, I'm mostly accustomed to the accused appearing for an advisement hearing, 2nd advisement hearing, and then the bond hearing-- prior to the preliminary hearing).
Referencing criminal court procedures in WI, it appears that the defendant's initial hearing (arraignment) typically includes where the court makes sure the defendant fully understands the criminal charges and the penalties they're facing., etc.
I dunno, since the youth was only arrested Tuesday evening (and he won't have counsel appointed until May 5), I didn't exactly get the impression the youth necessarily had knowledge and understanding of why he was present.
Does he even grasp what $1M cash bail means?
IMO, it seems today's hearing was basically used by the District Attorney to help law enforcement calm the public's fears, and shortcut with a Statement of Probable Cause (which isn't evidence):
... which is listed underneath the various counts listed on the criminal complaint.
It is important to keep in mind that the probable cause statement is not meant to serve as evidence in your criminal case.
Moreover, its purpose is not to assist you or your case in any way, such as by listing defenses or telling your version of events that led up to your criminal charge.
Instead, the statement of probable cause is prepared by the District Attorney’s Office in the county where you are being charged. The purpose of the statement is to state the probable-cause basis for charging you with the listed offense(s).
If you are facing one or more felony charges, you may not receive the evidence pending against you until you actually attend the preliminary hearing in your case....
In other words, based on Wisconsin law, I think we need to take a step back and acknowledge that there's no autopsy, cause of death, lab results, or toxicology completed yet. For all we know, the youth may be a manipulating, serial liar telling investigators what he thinks they wanted to hear, and, come next week, the evidence may support a completely different narrative.
To be clear, especially when it comes to child killers, I'm always focused on procedural compliance and really lose it when the defendant gets a leg up or let off on legal technicalities.
My sincere condolences to the family, friends, community, and all affected by this horrific tragedy.
Also, can't help thinking of a grandmother that lost two grandchildren here.
MOO
Initial Court Appearances in Wisconsin | Hogan Eickhoff
https://www.wisbar.org/Directories/CourtRules/Wisconsin Circuit Court Rules/Chippewa County Circuit Court Rules.pdf
LeBlack
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,214
- Reaction score
- 9,228
JMO, he belongs in adult prison
helpfulcharlie
Probably not the real Chuck Finley
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,230
- Reaction score
- 11,701
I joined Websleuths a long long time ago because of crimes against children. The more I see young people perpetrating these horrible crimes that defy the imagination of good people just trying to get by, the more confounded I become.
I joined because I was trying to comprehend what it is that breaks in people that leads them to make these choices. I am well-acquainted with the normal motivations of crime -- envy, greed, revenge, jealousy. This is so far beyond. I wish I knew how we could prevent this, or at least recognize it before it goes this far.
I joined because I was trying to comprehend what it is that breaks in people that leads them to make these choices. I am well-acquainted with the normal motivations of crime -- envy, greed, revenge, jealousy. This is so far beyond. I wish I knew how we could prevent this, or at least recognize it before it goes this far.
citizen_sleuth
Verified family member - Orie Donald Esh thread
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2021
- Messages
- 1,994
- Reaction score
- 20,242
Admittedly, I was somewhat taken back by the District Attorney repeating the juvenile's alleged confession-- a mere 24 hours ago or less since his arrest -- at the bond hearing!
Listening to the court proceeding live, I wasn't hearing that the youth waived his advisement or arraignment, but instead that his hearing to appoint counsel was not scheduled until May 5!
(Following an arrest, I'm mostly accustomed to the accused appearing for an advisement hearing, 2nd advisement hearing, and then the bond hearing-- prior to the preliminary hearing).
Referencing criminal court procedures in WI, it appears that the defendant's initial hearing (arraignment) typically includes where the court makes sure the defendant fully understands the criminal charges and the penalties they're facing., etc.
I dunno, since the youth was only arrested Tuesday evening (and he won't have counsel appointed until May 5), I didn't exactly get the impression the youth necessarily had knowledge and understanding of why he was present.
Does he even grasp what $1M cash bail means?
IMO, it seems today's hearing was basically used by the District Attorney to help law enforcement calm the public's fears, and shortcut with a Statement of Probable Cause (which isn't evidence):
... which is listed underneath the various counts listed on the criminal complaint.
It is important to keep in mind that the probable cause statement is not meant to serve as evidence in your criminal case.
Moreover, its purpose is not to assist you or your case in any way, such as by listing defenses or telling your version of events that led up to your criminal charge.
Instead, the statement of probable cause is prepared by the District Attorney’s Office in the county where you are being charged. The purpose of the statement is to state the probable-cause basis for charging you with the listed offense(s).
If you are facing one or more felony charges, you may not receive the evidence pending against you until you actually attend the preliminary hearing in your case....
In other words, based on Wisconsin law, I think we need to take a step back and acknowledge that there's no autopsy, cause of death, lab results, or toxicology completed yet. For all we know, the youth may be a manipulating, serial liar telling investigators what he thinks they wanted to hear, and, come next week, the evidence may support a completely different narrative.
To be clear, especially when it comes to child killers, I'm always focused on procedural compliance and really lose it when the defendant gets a leg up or let off on legal technicalities.
My sincere condolences to the family, friends, community, and all affected by this horrific tragedy.
Also, can't help thinking of a grandmother that lost two grandchildren here.
MOO
Initial Court Appearances in Wisconsin | Hogan Eickhoff
https://www.wisbar.org/Directories/CourtRules/Wisconsin Circuit Court Rules/Chippewa County Circuit Court Rules.pdf
A confession falls under probable cause. And I highly doubt the DA would bring it up if it wasn't backed by evidence. We aren't privy to what the DA and LE knows, but if they are divulging this information in open court (i.e., that Lily was strangled and raped, and that the juvenile in custody confessed), I am confident that the prosecution knows they have the right individual in custody.
I watch livestreams of juvenile court proceedings daily (albeit not in Wisconsin, but the procedures are similar) and IMO nothing the DA disclosed during the hearing put the juvenile's rights in jeopardy. As you stated "the purpose of the statement is to state the probable-cause basis for charging you with the listed offense(s)," but the evidence used to establish probable cause (in the vast majority of cases, at least) is also a component of what is presented by the prosecution during a trial, or further disposition hearings. MOO.
It’s like anything else. If he wants to get better and does extensive counseling etc followed by his willingness to want to get better he could possibly be rehabilitated. He’ll need to continue counseling the rest of his life. If he can serve the time given to him for this horrible crime, show remorse and apologize to the victims and their families for the rest of his life it’s possible. Imo. Statistics are against him. moo
Some people are born "mis-wired". Often severe deviation manifests more clearly in adolescence with its hormonal fluctuations, though admittedly, most times there are already hints of it in evidence from as early as 2 or 3 years on. Speaking from my background in abnormal psych and 18 years of inpatient counseling of children and adolescents with severe mental illness, and their families.
Seattle1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Messages
- 39,160
- Reaction score
- 408,027
Thanks for your response @citizen_sleuth.
Respectfully, I've been around a long time myself and for me, it will be the evidence introduced at the preliminary hearing where the Court decides whether or not the youth will be bound over for trial that matters.
In this case, the District Attorney's Statement of Probable Cause was short-cutting the AA, and by definition, it will not be evidence at trial. (Similar to prosecutors opening statements at a trial are not evidence).
And don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the youth is off the streets, the community protected, and the youth protected from himself.
Mamamerced
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,946
- Reaction score
- 1,619
I believe the nurturing component is more critical in the majority of cases.
Last edited:
I had been a member years ago but quit after a difficult case was too agonizing for me. Monday was my first time back. And I’m in agony again. I have no words. I am thankful that they found her, it was a quick arrest, and the family doesn’t have to guess for the rest of their lives. Though maybe that would have be better…
white rabbit
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2010
- Messages
- 3,078
- Reaction score
- 1,632
Wisconsin DA says 14-year-old boy is the suspect in the death of 10-year-old Lily Peters - East Idaho News
Karl Schmidt, an attorney for defendant, had argued that his client doesn’t pose a flight risk.
“He cannot drive. He is not in a position to raise much money, frankly, at all on his own. He resides with his mother. He is a lifetime resident of Chippewa County,” Schmidt said.
Newell said the defendant also made a statement to law enforcement that he punched the victim in the stomach, knocking her to ground, “essentially strangled her, hit her with a stick, before strangling her to the point of death, before he then sexually assaulted her.”
The juvenile defendant’s next hearing is set for 4:30 p.m. ET on May 5, at which he will appear via video, not in person.
Newell said it is premature to make any determinations regarding whether the case will remain in adult court. In Wisconsin, first-degree intentional homicide, which is the first count in the criminal complaint, by law originally starts in adult court.
Karl Schmidt, an attorney for defendant, had argued that his client doesn’t pose a flight risk.
“He cannot drive. He is not in a position to raise much money, frankly, at all on his own. He resides with his mother. He is a lifetime resident of Chippewa County,” Schmidt said.
Newell said the defendant also made a statement to law enforcement that he punched the victim in the stomach, knocking her to ground, “essentially strangled her, hit her with a stick, before strangling her to the point of death, before he then sexually assaulted her.”
The juvenile defendant’s next hearing is set for 4:30 p.m. ET on May 5, at which he will appear via video, not in person.
Newell said it is premature to make any determinations regarding whether the case will remain in adult court. In Wisconsin, first-degree intentional homicide, which is the first count in the criminal complaint, by law originally starts in adult court.
helpfulcharlie
Probably not the real Chuck Finley
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,230
- Reaction score
- 11,701
Welcome back, and I'm sorry for your timing.
SL-VA
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 133
Helpful…same-same on all counts!!! That is why I joined Websleuths ages ago…before Trish! Am an old, old lurker. I, too, wanted to understand “the motivations” which are so very haunting and deplorable! Ty, for your post!
LeBlack
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,214
- Reaction score
- 9,228
IDK that it matters. He's not a doctor, he didn't know if she was deceased or unconscious. It should be rape charges, IMO
kaen
Trying to be a good human.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2014
- Messages
- 6,652
- Reaction score
- 48,085
He did say "rape and kill" in the hearing.
The prosecution gave the details of the perpetrator's comments on what he did to her in relation to the large amount of bond they were asking as well as not having any contact with siblings. I don't think it was inappropriate to state what he said to police. The court should know his actions and weigh age and education level in setting bond.
High bond was set based on "serious charge, serious consequences" and looking at safety of community.
Oh, I totally agree. I was just taking a small amount of solace that she didn’t have to endure the rape & his phrasing of strangled to the point of death made me second guess if she was alive or not at that point. Either way, I agree, it’s rape & her last moments on this earth were horrific
I honestly can say I have worked with budding sociopaths who came from perfectly nurturing and engaged and involved families, where the siblings were kind, empathetic and socially well-adjusted, and the parents at their wits end about how to manage their maladjusted child, having tried everything.
Edited to add: There is a deep deep sadness in those systems I just described, , they are very difficult situations, for the parents and siblings both. You cannot even imagine what that does to such parents especially, to have such a child. However, I agree that in families of sociopaths where little nurturing is present, criminal behavior of the budding sociopath has a chance to run more rampant, as the child seems more unchecked.
Last edited:
CluelessWonder
Former Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,909
- Reaction score
- 4,492
I definitely think there is a familial component to the actions of this child. It's either some sort of genetic thing that caused him to be predisposed to this kind of unfathomable violence or a series of traumatic experiences wherein he was a victim. It also might be both. In fact, I think it's quite likely.
Irish_Eyes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2008
- Messages
- 4,060
- Reaction score
- 1,577
Just from the conversations we're having here today, I'd encourage y'all, if you can find it online somewhere, to watch the documentary "The Family I Had," which aired on Discovery ID I think a few years ago.
THIS SHOULD NOT be read as me saying it is entirely analogous to this case. It is clearly not. It tells the story of Charity Bennett, whose 13 year old son Paris was convicted of abusing and killing her 4 year old daughter Ella. It's not easy viewing. Bennett is extremely open about living through such a nightmare ordeal, how it happened and how she survived and continues to survive day by day. But, necessarily, it also gives some insight into her son. Bennett has stated publicly that she was advised that her (now adult) child is a sociopath. Her openness and the way the story is told kind of invites you to form your own opinions about her, about her background, and about her choices both before and after this horrific crime. And I think it's hard not to end up very conflicted.
But for those struggling with "how could this happen" or "wouldn't there have been signs?" and just "why would a child do something like this?" I think you can find the answers to those questions at least regarding this one specific case - the murder of Ella Bennett. Whether or not there are insights to take away beyond that I think would be up to the perception of the individual viewer.
THIS SHOULD NOT be read as me saying it is entirely analogous to this case. It is clearly not. It tells the story of Charity Bennett, whose 13 year old son Paris was convicted of abusing and killing her 4 year old daughter Ella. It's not easy viewing. Bennett is extremely open about living through such a nightmare ordeal, how it happened and how she survived and continues to survive day by day. But, necessarily, it also gives some insight into her son. Bennett has stated publicly that she was advised that her (now adult) child is a sociopath. Her openness and the way the story is told kind of invites you to form your own opinions about her, about her background, and about her choices both before and after this horrific crime. And I think it's hard not to end up very conflicted.
But for those struggling with "how could this happen" or "wouldn't there have been signs?" and just "why would a child do something like this?" I think you can find the answers to those questions at least regarding this one specific case - the murder of Ella Bennett. Whether or not there are insights to take away beyond that I think would be up to the perception of the individual viewer.
- Status