Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[ab01]

False. There’s actually a saying: “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”

No you can’t stop every event, or literally see into the future, but there are things that can be done to stop certain criminals in their tracks.

A level 3 sex offender is released from prison.

Why is he a “level 3?” Because his past behavior indicates his risk level to reoffend.

What you do in the past, you more likely to do in the future.

I’m not sure that level 3 tittle stops them from reafending another sexual assault crime. Much as I don’t believe just identifying certain behaviors makes us any closer to preventing such crimes, if IF there are not steps and mental treatment programs to treat these individuals. And that’s the biggest tragedy in this country. We can identify many individuals weather it be from crimes odd mental behaviors etc, but what we don’t have in this country is the ability and steps in place to help get these individuals the treatment they need before they escalate to such horrific acts! Moo

 

[MyBelle]

False. There’s actually a saying: “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”

No you can’t stop every event, or literally see into the future, but there are things that can be done to stop certain criminals in their tracks.

A level 3 sex offender is released from prison.

Why is he a “level 3?” Because his past behavior indicates his risk level to reoffend.

What you do in the past, you more likely to do in the future.

Except that all we know PF did in his past was to be quiet, did well academically and unable to complete USMC boot camp... None of that is predictive of the level of extreme violence and cruelty he inflicted on Jayme and her parents and that's why the public is so rattled.

JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

Did someone say they should have stopped and look at the perp’s pulled over car? The only thing I and everyone else is asking is why they never asked the public about that car.

It was my impression that one or more posters was suggesting that the responding offices should have delayed their response to the scene and instead pulled the perp's car over for a license plate violation. Why else is it being discussed that the license plate should have given the cops reason to pull the car over?

As to your second point, how do you know they didn't? I seem to remember that information be used in the Amber Alert.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Just checking in today and saw that he was moved from the Barron jail to another jail nearby in another county. Wisconsin has 72 counties. That is a lot! (I live in a bigger state with only 15 counties) From what I gather, it's because a relative of the Closs family is a member of the Barron Police Dept. Was very surprised to learn that JP's mother is a school bus driver in her county!! What are the odds?? JP is one twisted and disgusting human being. I can only hope that he pleads guilty on all counts to avoid anymore publicity and to let Jayme heal and get on with her life. In fact, from the complaint he has already confessed to everything. It would be a complete waste of taxpayers money to let this go to trial. So, why bother with any form of a trial. His parents HAD to know that he was so "off". His father obviously enabled him by letting him live in the house without a job or any means of support. Also, what is sad is that, as a society, we know that there are a lot more JP's out there as evidenced by all the horrific crimes committed against children and other innocent souls that happen to cross paths.

 

[ilovechili]

I am so very sorry for her and your family's loss, elektroangel. Hugs!
When I was listening to the 911 tape, I kept wondering " How does this cool lady keep on talking to the cops, the 2 women with Jayme and Jayme, find the house, instruct them to shut the dogs in a room ( very important these days, I can tell you) and stay on the phone until the officers arrived.
Also, maybe it's regional, but I thought all the voices on the phone blended except Jayme's was higher pitched a bit. I don't know how she didn't get them mixed up but I don't think she did.

It takes a special person to do an excellent job with 911 calls. Usually, the only ones we hear about are the ones who hung up on someone who then died. That's not fair.

BBM--And that does and has happened in cases unfortunately. There are known examples.

This woman did an exceptional job imho. She covered the dogs, was communicating back and forth with officers, medical, finding out the info needed, his name, car, where he likely was, how many houses between, phone number for the dog walker, how Jayme was, kept them as calm as possible, what room they were all in, how many people were present (and children) and where their door was, and so much more while seeming so calm and measured and yet not bombarding with questions... I know nothing about what all it entails but I know they are handling multiple things at once and I find it extremely impressive... As were the 3 rescuers/neighbors.

 

[bellyup]

In my opinion, there is nothing to predict future behavior. It’s as simple as people will do whatever they want to do. It doesn’t even have to do with violence and this specific case. Sometimes people act on impulse. One minute you’re happily married the next you’re not. You can only find out why but you can’t predict future behavior. You just can’t.

I'll respect that is your opinion but there is mountains and mountains of scientific based research that indicate otherwise.

 

[Nudgee]

Yes, that confuses me as well. I don't know why they didn't do that. I was just responding to the idea of why they didn't pull the car over on their way to the house.

It confuses me as well.... but then I think it must be tough on LE to know they saw the car, and to have learned Jayme heard their sirens from the trunk.....and how close they could have come to shaking this case down at the get go. The old "if only we had done"....Wouldn't it be nice if this was a lesson that could be remedied by LE... and if LE could always have the support/backup they would need to have one squad car/two officers sent out as well to do a spot check on traffic coming and going from the location of a 911 call while others responded to the call/location itself. For now, that could only happen in a perfect world..... and then to hear JTP say he would have probably shot at the officers if he was stopped... chilling and it sucks....

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo we can’t lock away potentially dangerous people before the act. Especially if over 18. He is 21, NOT A KID. Yes, he surely showed all the signs of being an oddball, anti-social perhaps, but imo there are many teens heading that way with nonstop online, gaming, etc...and much less person-to-person contact than in many other eras.

OT but my sister was starving herself to death by aged 18. My parents were desperate but were unable to have her hospitalized without her consent. She eventually died of organ failure. They recognized the severity but were powerless due to her age. I am hoping it is different now, but with more privacy laws etc...doubftul jmo.

 

[K9Enzo]

IMO, it's clear he planned the murders and the kidnapping of JC.

What throws me off in this planning, is his statement in the complaint, that on his way to the Closs home he pulled over to switch out license plates, disconnect the dome light, removed the trunk light and the glowing safety inside trunk latch. This he thought of on the way but not before? Was his mind really that scattered? But he clearly thought out his clothing and not leaving behind his DNA footprint.

IMO, he believes he's very clever. More clever than me, you, the police, everyone. He knows better than the two employers he worked for 1-2 days TOTAL, the military after he washed out.

I agree with those who said he planned to a certain point but not long term. At appears to me after he kidnapped her, he was living in the moment.

I watched the video of his court appearance. IMO, he's not at all ashamed to be sitting there. I rather think he was fine with it, might even look forward to going in the future.

IMO, he's a basement dwelling loser.

 

[cluciano63]

If it is the case that LE decided not to release JP's ford taurus to the public: I think that is pretty smart thinking.....this would have tipped off JP: that car would never have been seen again (& this was just about the only 'lead' they had), plus who knows: this is a perp who shot two people point blank with a shotgun: if he knew LE had that info: he might have panicked & killed Jayme too

I'd imagine though that this info RE: the ford taurus would have been circulated far & wide among LE: it's odd to me that he wasn't apprehended, though it gives me a boost of hope that they WOULD have eventually, that they had at least something to go on...

But seemingly if they did searches for this car themselves they were unsuccessful.

 

[WildWest]

Just insofar as the job goes— my HOPE is that he thought they were “playing house” and wanted a way to support that or even that he just wanted to keep up appearances. But my gut says the thrill may have started to wear off and he was still finding himself feeling quite inadequate and unsatisfied— I think he was beginning to think ahead a bit and I don’t think she was part of those plans. All totally MOO, of course. Who really knows what was next— but my heart sank when I read that article.

That crossed my mind too. As well as him getting an employee discount on liquor and getting stupid drunk then doing bad things.

BTW, nice to meet you

 

[Zephyranth]

His statement to police "he knew that was the girl he was going to take" makes it sound like he had thought of kidnapping a girl for a while, saw Jayme, and decided to choose her. Granted, we don't have a ton of verbiage to go on as far as analysis.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m not sure that level 3 tittle stops them from reafending another sexual assault crime. Much as I don’t believe just identifying certain behaviors makes us any closer to preventing such crimes, if IF there are not steps and mental treatment programs to treat these individuals. And that’s the biggest tragedy in this country. We can identify many individuals weather it be from crimes odd mental behaviors etc, but what we don’t have in this country is the ability and steps in place to help get these individuals they need before they escalate to such horrific acts! Moo

The title itself doesn’t stop them, it’s what comes with it.

Increased scrutiny makes it more difficult to reoffend.

If I have children, and am living near a high-risk sex offender, I’m not letting my kids anywhere near them.

He’s done it before, he’s more likely to do it again, especially when compared to another person chosen at random.

That’s my point, and I don’t want to derail the thread.

I am absolutely not saying that people could have predicted that this guy would have gone on to commit a crime like this.

Just that certain behaviors should set off red flags in general.

 

[MyBelle]

Prefacing this as a verified mental health professional in Wisconsin. How I so wish this was reality. Especially in Wisconsin where I practice. There is only one way here to get a person involuntarily into long term treatment and that is a 3rd party petition. They are extremely difficult to get even with loads of evidence that the person is a danger to themselves and others.

And yes, you can call 911 if a person is exhibiting mental health concerns. In MANY cases the police will not take the person into custody regardless of what family members are saying. If the person can APPEAR to be in control of their faculties and are able to say that they do not want help the police will do NOTHING. I have personally been involved multiple times where 911 was called and even with my professional recommendation that the person be taken, they have not taken the person, because the person was able to manipulate the first responders that they were not a danger to themselves or others.

The stories I could tell the forum would make your blood boil! There is very little that families can do when an ill family member does not voluntarily want help. And the other sad reality is if the person does want help it can be extremely tough to get access to timely, affordable and quality care. Yes, one can go to the county health and human services department and ask for an assessment which results in a recommendation for level of care. However, many of Wisconsin's 72 counties no longer have funds to pay for inpatient care.

Thank you for speaking up. I doubt counties with a small population such as Douglas do have adequate resources. Also, JP may have sufficiently masked his personality around his own parents. At this point, we have very little information.
JMO

 

[Nerissa]

Cluciano63 - yeah, I am surprised that JP was not apprehended sooner: but I don't know the area, how often he was out & about in that car, how many officers in the region etc....

Also: I am so sorry to hear about your sister My best friend from age of 13 suffered anorexia off and on for years...it's terrible to be a by-stander to their determination to torture themselves.....

 

[bellyup]

Prefacing this as a verified mental health professional in Wisconsin. How I so wish this was reality. Especially in Wisconsin where I practice. There is only one way here to get a person involuntarily into long term treatment and that is a 3rd party petition. They are extremely difficult to get even with loads of evidence that the person is a danger to themselves and others.

And yes, you can call 911 if a person is exhibiting mental health concerns. In MANY cases the police will not take the person into custody regardless of what family members are saying. If the person can APPEAR to be in control of their faculties and are able to say that they do not want help the police will do NOTHING. I have personally been involved multiple times where 911 was called and even with my professional recommendation that the person be taken, they have not taken the person, because the person was able to manipulate the first responders that they were not a danger to themselves or others.

The stories I could tell the forum would make your blood boil! There is very little that families can do when an ill family member does not voluntarily want help. And the other sad reality is if the person does want help it can be extremely tough to get access to timely, affordable and quality care. Yes, one can go to the county health and human services department and ask for an assessment which results in a recommendation for level of care. However, many of Wisconsin's 72 counties no longer have funds to pay for inpatient care.

I know that it can be hard to do but my point is that it can be done. The sentiment that "there's nothing families can do" isn't true and unfortunately leads to many people believing that there is nothing they can do so they do nothing.

The reality is that there are resources and state resources aren't the only ones available. There are many privately funded organizations that also provide assistance. They can be difficult to find, difficult to maneuver and difficult to obtain. BUT IT CAN BE DONE. As someone who also works in the field, bringing those resources and encouraging people to seek them out is far more productive than the defeatist "it's hard". The only good thing about easy is that it's easy.

As a side note; I will again reiterate that 211 (phone call from any phone) will connect you with United Ways First Call for Help. Or you can google your city / states number for a website that lists both public and private places you can turn to.

 

[StarEyes]

He said he shut his lights off, so I was trying to figure out how she would see the car approaching the drive, but maybe she could see it in the moonlight.
I'm dissecting what he's said to see if it's factual. I believe her account, but not so much his and I'm unsure he really did all the "crafty" things he's said in his statement, like disabling the dome light, shutting off the engine (be kind of hard to even turn the wheel since they lock when the car is off), etc. Just wondering if he's bragging.
Like he said merely hitting the wall and yelling made JC cower and obey him. But she stated that he used an object to hit her hard on the back. It's like he's trying to look more tough and in control than he was.

You’d be surprised how easy it is to see a vehicle driving in your driveway at night without lights. Even in cloud cover, I could spot them immediately. It would be much more difficult in heavy rain or when it’s snowing. It’s also easy to hear the tires on that gravel. My Dad has shot right over several cars & trucks. About 50% had zero lights. My Granny shot AT them. (Ikr) Lots of us teens would disable the dome light when out parking (yes, ‘that’ kind). It’s really easy to do, or it used to be. I grew up in a rural community and we were further isolated on our old farm. jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Whoa. I've been offline for a couple of hours and just read about JP's mom being a bus driver. What a kick in the gut for her.

I was thinking to myself last night how awful his family must feel knowing he spent Christmas at his grandmother's house while he kept a girl in captivity. Doing that was like a punch to them, and now knowing his mom was a bus driver and he picked a victim when he saw her on a school bus....this guy is very, very angry at the world (imo). (And the feeling is mutual.)

But...Jayme survived. (I like saying that.)

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

If it is the case that LE decided not to release JP's ford taurus to the public: I think that is pretty smart thinking.....this would have tipped off JP: that car would never have been seen again (& this was just about the only 'lead' they had), plus who knows: this is a perp who shot two people point blank with a shotgun: if he knew LE had that info: he might have panicked & killed Jayme too

I'd imagine though that this info RE: the ford taurus would have been circulated far & wide among LE: it's odd to me that he wasn't apprehended, though it gives me a boost of hope that they WOULD have eventually, that they had at least something to go on...

FBI joined this case within hours. I doubt they would have missed the red car information, and also believe it was purposely withheld from public. (Bogus reports came from everywhere about the vehicles they did release). Reports are there were numerous vehicles parked at JP's property (Gordon, WI - population 600), and if he alternated the vehicles he drove, he further lessened LE chance of spotting a red Taurus. MOO

 

[heed101]

Except that all we know PF did in his past was to be quiet, did well academically and unable to complete USMC boot camp... None of that is predictive of the level of extreme violence and cruelty he inflicted on Jayme and her parents and that's why the public is so rattled.

JMO

I wonder why he was really discharged from the Marines. That could have be "sign".

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.co...erson-charged-homicide-kidnapping/2568361002/

 

[K9Enzo]

He said he shut his lights off, so I was trying to figure out how she would see the car approaching the drive, but maybe she could see it in the moonlight.
I'm dissecting what he's said to see if it's factual. I believe her account, but not so much his and I'm unsure he really did all the "crafty" things he's said in his statement, like disabling the dome light, shutting off the engine (be kind of hard to even turn the wheel since they lock when the car is off), etc. Just wondering if he's bragging.
Like he said merely hitting the wall and yelling made JC cower and obey him. But she stated that he used an object to hit her hard on the back. It's like he's trying to look more tough and in control than he was.

Ambient light.

I believe she could see the car, even with the lights out.