Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[SeekingJana]

100 miles an hour where roads could be icy! Wow. Incredible.

This makes me cry tears of joy and also gratitude for what they risked and did for her when she escaped.

It is really really helpful to me to know policemen helped her in this way.
Thank you for sharing this info!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/mom-o..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_3697324

Then “on his drive to the cheese factory on one of the two mornings he worked there, he stopped behind a school bus on US Hwy. 8 where he watched [Jayme] get on a school bus,” prompting him to begin targeting her, according to court documents.

Prosecutors have declined to say exactly when Patterson first spotted Jayme, but Vassiadis said he worked at the factory Oct. 3 and 4 and then didn’t show up Oct. 5 and beyond.

Patterson is accused of kidnapping Jayme from her home Oct. 15 — meaning he would have allegedly pulled together his heinous plot in less than two weeks.

 

[Jim_M]

I have seen that mentioned in other cases. Brainstorming on what would drive anyone to even contemplate doing so. And though we cannot sleuth other members, I would hope the administration keeps a good eye on things here.

That said. I keep coming back to the facts. Jayme saved herself. Whatever she endured over those 88 days, she kept her focus on saving herself. Thirteen (13) years old. 13. A Hero at that age is destined for greatness.

My only question, and IMO, our collective only question, for Ms. Closs, would be: What would you like to be when you finish your educational studies? What do you want to be when you grow up? (One of those )

I can picture a Veterinarian. Perhaps reminiscing about her wonderful parents. Playing with (and, of course, spoiling) her grandchildren, at the end of a long well-lived, and well-loved, life.

And Henry, the heroic dog. What drove him to 'get' his owner to take him out for a walk?

The timing. Whatever forces aligned. That 29 minute 9-1-1 call is the icing on our cake.

I need to go shopping. My Kleenex Tissue supply is wiped out from this case.

IMO the culprit just needs to go away. And everything they learn from his, 'electronic trails', needs to be studied. Needs to be analyzed. We need to be able to better handle our bad seeds. They're really out there. So scary.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before so sorry if I’m repeating this. I just wondered if anyone who was here from Thread 1, from the beginning thinks he may have posted here on WS. I know it would be pretty impossible to tell.

He just seems like the type to get involved with a topic that he would see as being all about him judging from his statement - he definitely thinks he’s something. I imagine he definitely at least read this thread - he’s a psychopath.

 

[SeekingJana]

I doubt anybody is an expert of Stockholm Syndrome because it is incredibly rare. Stockholm Syndrome didn't apply to Elizabeth Smart and it doesn't apply here. I'm not sure why some want to insist it was even a possibility. To do so is very unfair to these child victims who were cruelly traumatized.
JMO

"I never had Stockholm syndrome,'' she says in the movie. "Just because I physically stopped resisting, doesn't mean I hated it any less. I wasn't sympathetic towards them. I despised them."

Elizabeth Smart on the one question that won’t go away: ‘Why didn’t you run?’

It is so rare that many European behavioral researchers could not duplicate it and now say they are skeptical it exists as previously thought.

 

[cobalt sky]

It just came to me. The case of Colleen Stan. It’s an older case that many WS’ers may not be familiar with (1977-1984) She was kept in a box 23 hours a day under her captors bed for seven years.

I wonder if JP was familiar with that case.[/QUOTE]

This is the first thing I thought of when I read the complaint. He is a Hooker (Colleen's captor) in the making. My opinion is that Patterson is a sociopath and sexual sadist who managed to keep it hidden for a long time. I also think that there could be other victims that we just don't know about yet. He planned this crime to satisfy all of his fantasies...he got to play predator, recon, marine guy busting into the house and terrorizing and shooting down people,, kidnapping a young girl to make his captive and one can only imagine what else... the whole experience probably made him feel incredibly powerful and fulfilled all of his fantasies. It seems he started out by controlling and terrorizing Jayme but then evolved into playing mind games to terrorize her and then escalated to actually physically hitting her. It would have eventually evolved into beatings and torture just like what happened to Colleen, or murder as was the case with a girl that Hooker abducted before he abducted Colleen. I'm so thankful that Jayme was able to get the hell out of there, I can't even imagine how traumatized that poor girl is, luckily she seems to have a large supportive family and it seems the community is rallying behind her.

As for Patterson's parents, I don't think there is anything they could have done to stop this. Nothing stops a sociopath. As it stands right now I consider them victims of this whole horrifying ordeal, unless something else comes to light to change my mind.

 

[human]

This case is the ultimate scary. In other cases one could say that there were things that did apply to them.

But this could happen to anyone. Some psycho picks you out. Totally inknown to you for any reason.

The thought of it is beyond horrifying.

There were plenty of signs that he was “off” .

Here were I live in a Third World country there are some American males that do not work who are in their late 20’s. Their families are rich and support them. People make dun of them living off of mommy, but we see it as entitled spoiled boys. It seems more accepted here that they can travel and do nothing. It is not considered pathological just ridiculous. There are several Americans who do nothing but live off of trust funds. To me it is interesting to how doing nothing is a topic of conversation but not considered unacceptable. I imagine it is the same all over in vacation areas that have been chosen by well to do.

 

[Phantasy24]

I appreciate your opinion on the parents. As someone who went through the Columbine shootings it becomes very easy to blame them. It becomes an easy rational explanation for many to go that route. In reality they also become victims. I don't remember getting a handbook when my children were born on how to raise kids. Like you until i hear otherwise i feel awful for the guilt they must be feeling.

 

[tnith]

RBBM

@tnith :
While I only know now, what everyone else has pored over for months, the strange approach from Barron's PD has had profiled posturing written all over it- what was shown was never for us but those unseen.

Your perspective is interesting. Not sure what "those unseen" refers to, in the bolded verbiage above . . .

Without names, faces, witness statements, forensic psychology is left to forage for identifying attributes... those, (whom are) unseen.

In liu of spoken demands, tracing back the violent actions taken to a specific source, and attempting to assuage the rage beneath.

There are so many peripheral parts we were not privy to, yet their sum equaled something all agencies involved on this case could use to buy time.

Other homicidal abductors, are not this homicidal abductor. I'm especially grateful the care was taken, whether others can see it or not.

They announced everything in the Hannah Anderson case, for instance.

The statistics are that most kids are killed within something like three hours.

In another life, I vaguely recall how obvious the connection was with the obsessed abductor. DiMaggio's home and vehicle, the bodies of Hannah's mom & brother- there was no denying who had done this.

 

[gitana1]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here, looooong time lurker, we're talking years without ever having signed up until today!

I'm in Australia which makes keeping up difficult as I'm asleep while you're all posting and for a case like this, there's always so much activity so I apologise in advance if im repeating something that's already been discussed.

I had a thought while reading about JP hiding Jayme under the bed when friends were over. Can someone please tell me if the friends visiting the house while Jayme was there have been confirmed by LE or if any of these friends have come forward? My thinking behind this is that this information has come from Jayme herself, yes? And she also said that he would turn music up so she couldn't hear what was going on outside the room she was in. So what if this (as in friends visiting the house) is just something he told her to appear popular and normal to her and not like the sad, anti-social loser he really was? Just an idea that popped into my head, but to me IF his deranged plan was to keep her as his girlfriend, then maybe he was trying to portray himself as an ordinary guy with friends and an active social life when in reality no one ever came to the house apart from immediate family.

All my opinion, based purely off the fact that I'm yet to see any confirmation from LE or these supposed friends that there was ever anyone else there. Sorry if I've missed something though and gone off on a wild goose chase for nothing!

Holy mackerel. Great first post. I hadn't thought of that.

There were apparently a lot of cars at the house so maybe whoever stated that they saw a lot of vehicles coming and going maybe just saw the cars and thought people were there when it was just him.

That puts a whole new spin on things.

 

[Phantasy24]

Actually....given all the facts that has come out about how poor the BCSD was.....I would likely attribute it to incompetence more than anything.

Am i misremembering that when LE first showed up to the crime scene they thought suicide? Dont you realize within seconds when you don't find a gun near either body in conjunction with the screams on the 911 call that its something way bigger ? Sure the Taurus didn't have front license plates but it was the only car you drove past and you knew direction. Just bothers me maybe i am wrong on the original 911 communication

 

[gitana1]

Context is everything.

A neighbor is going to see him very differently than a former high school classmate.

It also seems that he underwent a change after finishing high school.

Yes and the attitude of the person affects perception too. For example, I tend to think well of people (until and unless they do or say something specific) and not notice things others might. If someone tells me something negative about another person that I hadn't known or seen, it's disappointing.

(For instance, a classmate in law school talked about another classmate's wife and said that she is materialistic/greedy. She said the wife saw her with a new diamond necklace and immediately looked at the classmate's ears and wrist to see if she had matching stuff on and that she always looked her over to see what new thing she might have had. I wouldn't notice that kind of thing).

But I'm probably the type who would view a quiet, polite classmate as quiet and polite rather than a creepy loner, unless they did something specifically creepy.

 

[tnith]

Um, yeah.....great service Barron Co. Sheriff's.....you screwed up the night of the murder, did absolutely nothing to break the case, didn't even arrest the suspect....and then decide "let's drive 100 MPH for 30-40 miles and risk killing someone for no real reason since the suspect had been caught already".

I mean, seriously, how stupid are the people in this county?

And I would happily trade our local PD here, for Barron's LE in a heartbeat.

If this, this, is the worst they can do? I would enthusiastically have them, with no questions asked. There are worse things in this life.

Welcome to WS, john111gg

 

[gitana1]

I totally hear you, but I didn't mention anything about Jayme being strong in that post. I mentioned she witnessed her parents' murders and I don't think she would be in a place within 88 days to identify with the murderer of her parents. I don't think the Stockholm syndrome applies in this particular case.

Just my opinion, of course, and it's frankly not worth much on this particular topic as I'm far from an expert.

jmo

Agreed. As to what @mtnlites said, I also sort of thought about the pressure this kid might feel to be strong. I was thinking of writing her a note telling her it's okay to grieve and wonder why her and feel scared and angry and sad.

(But I realize you weren't talking about that issue!)

 

[Wrenny]

Blocked in with Rubbermaid’s and barbells? I’m 61 years old! I would have kicked my way out of that! Duct tape?

My understanding of this was that he had the totes next to the bed, then the weights on the outside of the totes. So if she moved them to get out, he would know... because she could pull the totes back in place but not the weights that were outside of them.
It's quite devious actually. She CAN get out, but he'll know, and he'll do bad things to her. And with the radio blaring, she's never quite sure if he's there or gone.

 

[gitana1]

yup, here it comes. all the weirdness and red flags nobody cared to take seriously.

But how? I mean there are hundreds of thousands of odd loners in the US and very very few erupt into this kind of deranged evil. What were they supposed to understand or do about him.

There's many more out of control teens and young adults who have uncontrollable rage issues, constant criminal activity, clear preoccupation with violence, that people worry about. These loners manage to stay under the radar and not disclose any dark thoughts. But most of these alienated loners are pretty benign.

 

[gitana1]

Blocked in with Rubbermaid’s and barbells? I’m 61 years old! I would have kicked my way out of that! Duct tape?

Yes. You're a fully grown adult. Not a terrorized child who just saw her parents get their heads blown off by the same guy now telling her to stay put or he will do bad things to her.

Are we really questioning this child? It's not Stockholm. It's not brainwashing. It's terror. Terrorizing a child.

 

[tnith]

yup, here it comes. all the weirdness and red flags nobody cared to take seriously.

My favourite part. In which we all sit staring at those closest to the human bomb, thinking deep thoughts. Sometimes, we sip martinis and roll our eyes, or glance into the distance meaningfully.

But how? I mean there are hundreds of thousands of odd loners in the US and very very few erupt into this kind of deranged evil. What were they supposed to understand or do about him.

There's many more out of control teens and young adults who have uncontrollable rage issues, constant criminal activity, clear preoccupation with violence, that people worry about. These loners manage to stay under the radar and not disclose any dark thoughts. But most of these alienated loners are pretty benign.

Asking, listening, sharing, playing, doing, modeling healthy relationships. Being WITH whether they like it or not, rather than leaving the isolation to fester.

I hate Patterson for what he choose to become. But it didn't happen by itself... a lot of neglect and desire to pretend everything was fine, when it clearly was not, speaks volumes.

 

[gitana1]

Well, that argument works both ways. What if the Challenger or the black SUV turned out to be the suspect’s car? Wasn’t LE doing the same thing, risking that the suspect wouldn’t drive the vehicle again?

Hmm. Maybe they were busy checking databases for maroon Ford Taureses. Checking for months and doing research to see if anyone ended up on their radar. And in the meantime they threw out fake cars to make the perp think he was safe?

FBI was involved. Is this is a possibility?

 

[Wrenny]

"The defendant drew out a diagram of the floor plan of his house and indicated on the diagram the garbage can where he had put the license plate he stole before kidnapping J.L.C."

I think it's supposed to read "floor plan of her house."

That confused me for a bit too. Nope, it is his house. It's the order of the clauses that makes it read poorly. Try reading it this way: He had stolen the license plate before kidnapping JLC. He drew out the floor plan of his house, and indicated the location of the garbage can where he had thrown out the stolen license plate, after the crime.

 

[gitana1]

Asking, listening, sharing, playing, doing, modeling healthy relationships. Being WITH whether they like it or not, rather than leaving the isolation to fester.

I hate Patterson for what he choose to become. But it didn't happen by itself... a lot of neglect and desire to pretend everything was fine, when it clearly was not, speaks volumes.

As I stated there are hundreds of thousands of isolated loners. Almost none of them do things like this.

We are talking about "red flags" not taken seriously. But given the fact that there are so many people like that, they're really not red flags except in retrospect. Most dudes like this never do anything remotely evil.

Some people are quiet and awkward. We can't force everyone to be social in the way we feel is healthy.

And maybe his parents did try some of those things.

Oh I think something was wrong. I question why a man that age wasn't working but was living and surviving at the former family residence. Seems some enabling was going on.

But so what? I see that regularly in my practice. I just had a settlement conference where the two parties factored in the monthly expenses one was covering for their adult son who lived with her. I assumed he was disabled or something. Nope. A healthy man in his 40's, who mom and dad support because he chose a career in the entertainment industry and was waiting for Netflix to buy his show or whatever.

This happens all the time. Parents enable. Parents don't see anything critical.

And most times they just end up with a child who isn't independent nor has a social or family life of his own. Not a lunatic murderer.

 

[Wrenny]

However, in the first 24 hrs of this case I would want a list of every employee for the past 5 years minimum. Within another 48 hrs I would have wanted that list cross referenced against the vehicle types spotted with WI license plate and registration records. Yes LE can get a list of all maroon (or similarly colored) Ford Tauruses, or the other vehicles.

The hole in your theory.... JTP doesn't own the car, his sister does.