Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Rosiebones]

It originated while talking about Patterson telling Jayme to hold it (going to the bathroom) while he disappeared for hours. It's strange but it sounds like a term a parent would use to their child while on a long car journey ('you'll just have to hold it til we get there'). I wonder if he perhaps viewed Jayme as a child; hiding her under a bed, maybe playing board games (Monopoly) with her, eliminating her parents so he was now the male/father figure in her life - who knows?

On the other hand, what else would you call it?

 

[The Dude]

I hope to never hear the 911 call now that we know what was happening. Nope never.

Oh, and you KNOW there's a lot more on that recording than we were told there was. Just like the 5'. And the footprints. And the Taurus. And...

 

[MsBetsy]

I hope to never hear the 911 call now that we know what was happening. Nope never.

In the complaint I think it was described as a lot of screaming. That was the first time I read that, as before the sheriff said there was commotion or a disturbance, and yelling.
I don't see why they would play it in court if it goes to trial. He has always said and still says it didn't really give them any information.

 

[WiseOwl]

<modsnipped quoted post>

Please Rhenish don't hold back - tell us what you really think of him! I'm sure we all agree with you on Patterson and there's been so many different theories about him and why he took Jayme i was just throwing another one out there.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think it might just be called that from the perspective of a person who needs to get out, actually (it's the cord you pull in case you're kidnapped).

Pictures boys locking each other in the trunk a lot when their parents aren't looking, and...I'm guessing that's where the (relatively innocent) term came from.

Well, in that case it's probably just a creepy coincidence.

 

[Zephyranth]

Well, in that case it's probably just a creepy coincidence.

I just meant I think he might have grown up (along with other rural boys) calling it that, rather than invented the term in his planning to kidnapping Jayme.

 

[Lillymac]

I hope to never hear the 911 call now that we know what was happening. Nope never.

The question keeps being d

Oh, and you KNOW there's a lot more on that recording than we were told there was. Just like the 5'. And the footprints. And the Taurus. And...

Not sure timeline wise what's on it. As soon as he noticed it he told her to hang up, and she did. So, don't know. Maybe him breaking down the door?

 

[mtnlites]

It was disturbing to me, too. As if he had been reading some site on the internet where criminals discuss how to pull off the perfect crime and that's their term for the safety latch. Imo

I am in my 30s and we have been calling it that since I was a kid. Sometimes it's a button, other times a latch or string, but the base name remains the same.

 

[WiseOwl]

On the other hand, what else would you call it?

Don't spray til i say is all i can come up with but it sounds as if i am trivializing the matter and i'm not. I just thought it sounded like an order you would give to a child but just MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I was just about to post another link to this.

What's strange is that there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason to lie about all this. I mean, it's not like the bad guy didn't already know exactly what happened in that house that night, so what would be the purpose of this specific misinformation?

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree a bit....

He said evidence — or a lack of evidence — seems to suggest that the killer or killers didn't get that far in the home sometime after midnight on October 15. That is kinda true. If JP walked over JC at the door it wouldn't be much more than 5 feet to the hallway bathroom area. They probably didn't know he'd cleared the other areas at the time.

Investigators have not recovered any DNA evidence, or fingerprints, This is true as far as we know he wore 2 pair gloves

nor did they find shoe prints inside the home, he said.

The defendant stated he had the shotgun in his one hand, and he reached his arm around J.L.C.’s body and began to drag her out of the house. As he was doing so, the defendant stated he nearly slipped in the blood that had pooled on the floor.
Doesn't mean there were any clear identifiable shoe or footprint, If he was dragging Jayme because her ankles were tapped together it could have smeared any usable prints.

JMO

 

[Rhenish]

Please Rhenish don't hold back - tell us what you really think of him! I'm sure we all agree with you on Patterson and there's been so many different theories about him and why he took Jayme i was just throwing another one out there.

Yes, and I agree with your post, it very well could be he was being fatherly<modsnipped -offensive language> that is the thing we do not know and inquiring minds want to. I too have speculated back and forth about how he viewed their relationship and therefore was providing a comparison and being sarcastic. And .... I hate Jake Patterson, as do we all I am going to assume.

 

[Jim_M]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree a bit....

He said evidence — or a lack of evidence — seems to suggest that the killer or killers didn't get that far in the home sometime after midnight on October 15. That is kinda true. If JP walked over JC at the door it wouldn't be much more than 5 feet to the hallway bathroom area. They probably didn't know he'd cleared the other areas at the time.

Investigators have not recovered any DNA evidence, or fingerprints, This is true as far as we know he wore 2 pair gloves

nor did they find shoe prints inside the home, he said.

The defendant stated he had the shotgun in his one hand, and he reached his arm around J.L.C.’s body and began to drag her out of the house. As he was doing so, the defendant stated he nearly slipped in the blood that had pooled on the floor.
Doesn't mean there were any clear identifiable shoe or footprint, If he was dragging Jayme because her ankles were tapped together it could have smeared any usable prints.

JMO

From that horror of a 'CC':

"Detective Hagen reports there were some tread patterns visible in blood that was in the entry way just inside the main door of the home next to James’ body. Detective Hagen reports the tread patterns appeared to be from tactical type boots."

So they kinda fibbed on that part also

ETA: structure of sentences

 

[Wrenny]

The second shot would indeed be louder. How much louder I can't say

Internet search showed me emergency vehicle sirens are 110-115 db while a shotgun is 170 db.

Then I read that sounds 10 db higher sound to us like they are twice as loud, but that they are actually 10 times as loud. So from 110db to 120db would be 10 times as loud... 130db would be 100 times as loud as 110 db. 140db would be 1000 times as loud, 150db 10,000 times as loud, 160db 100,000 times as loud, 170 db 1,000,000 times as loud. Yike! I guess that could explain it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think Jayme is just trying to evade talking about the details. Kind of like..it hurts, it's bitter...spit it out. JP loves talking about the gore.jmo

Yes I agree 100%. Jayme giving the basic info. JP wants to continue the narrative of being the big, bad wolf. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

I have one. I'm not sure how to really explain this. It could be that the investigators just ran with these explanations, and there is nothing to this. Or, could there be something missing?

Please note: read anything dealing with the 'CC' with caution. They did not pull any punches in describing the horror that took place in the Closs' home.

Reading the Criminal Complaint (CC) I noted these 'differences.' I'm not sure if I may have missed any discussion on this, but here goes:

Jayme

"J.L.C. stated she heard a gunshot and knew her father had just been killed. J.L.C. stated her mother had her cell phone with her and used the phone to call 911. J.L.C. stated Patterson broke down the bathroom door and told her mother to hang up the phone. J.L.C. stated Patterson told her mother to put tape over J.L.C.’s mouth, which her mother did, and then Patterson shot her mother. J.L.C. stated both her mother and father were shot one time.
J.L.C. stated the first time she saw Patterson was in the bathroom where she and her mother were hiding. J.L.C. stated Patterson was dressed in black from head to toe, including a face mask, hat, and gloves.
J.L.C. stated that Patterson taped her hands and ankles together and dragged her out to his car. J.L.C. described the tape as being black in color. J.L.C. stated Patterson taped her hands such that her hands were behind her back."

JTP

"The defendant stated he pulled out a flattened partial roll of black colored Gorilla brand duct tape, handed it to Denise, and told her to place the tape over J.L.C.’s mouth. The defendant stated Denise was struggling to do that and he set the shotgun down on the bathroom sink. The defendant stated he took the tape from Denise and wrapped tape around J.L.C.’s mouth, and completely around her head. The defendant stated he then had J.L.C. stand up where he then took tape and placed it around her wrists, with her palms together to restrain her hands and arms. The defendant stated he then took the tape and wrapped it around J.L.C.’s ankles. The defendant stated he then removed J.L.C. from the bathtub. With J.L.C. standing bound next to him in the bathroom, the defendant stated..."

All BBM for clarity.

Am I reading too much into this? And do I even know what I'm trying to determine?

JP brought the black gorilla tape with him for a purpose. It might have been part of his plan in case he needed it, or part of his fantasy on how the crime would go down in his planning. One thing I think possible in trying to understand his thinking, he wanted to use that tape.

I can’t think of a plan he had in advance to have Denise put the tape around Jayme’s mouth, since he could not have predicted they would be hiding together in the bathtub.

Denise didn’t go as fast as JP wanted, so he put the gun down on the sink area, and did it himself, so another clue on what a rush job he had in mind he was ready to make a mistake. It still worked out for him, though.

Why he wanted mom to put the tape on her own daughter is suspicious to me of one of two things 1) JP is sadistic and got thrill from it or 2) JP didn’t want to put the shotgun down. He got frustrated and did anyway.

 

[The Dude]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree a bit....

He said evidence — or a lack of evidence — seems to suggest that the killer or killers didn't get that far in the home sometime after midnight on October 15. That is kinda true. If JP walked over JC at the door it wouldn't be much more than 5 feet to the hallway bathroom area. They probably didn't know he'd cleared the other areas at the time.

Investigators have not recovered any DNA evidence, or fingerprints, This is true as far as we know he wore 2 pair gloves

nor did they find shoe prints inside the home, he said.

The defendant stated he had the shotgun in his one hand, and he reached his arm around J.L.C.’s body and began to drag her out of the house. As he was doing so, the defendant stated he nearly slipped in the blood that had pooled on the floor.
Doesn't mean there were any clear identifiable shoe or footprint, If he was dragging Jayme because her ankles were tapped together it could have smeared any usable prints.

JMO

A) Denise was found in the bathtub, and the bathroom door was broken in. The bathroom is in the rear of the house. A lot further than 5'. They knew this.

B) If you step in a pool of blood enough to nearly slip in it, how on earth would you continue without leaving any sort of print at all? Did he get that lucky that he dragged her through his path to effectively eliminate all traces of a print?

C) If you want to keep this information from the public, why not just decline comment? Why state things that are now obviously untrue?

 

[girlhasnoname]

He was also looking to see if there was anybody else in the house, and was prepared to kill them. Imo

I think he knew there was nobody else in the house but the 3. I believe he did research them beforehand regardless of what he claims, and I think he always went in with the intention to kill JC & DC. He's a twisted sick one that would have continued on to others after he tired of Jayme. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

Oh, and you KNOW there's a lot more on that recording than we were told there was. Just like the 5'. And the footprints. And the Taurus. And...

Probably so. I do recall Sheriff saying it sounded like the phone was in another room. No way to know when the call started, but I imagine when Jayme and Denise hid in the bathtub, they were likely trying to be still as mice. JP broke down the door, but it wasn’t easy (he says he had to hit it multiple times), so all that would be caught in the 911 call. According to his report in the complaint, once he breached the door, he told Denise to hang up. You would think that part would have been heard in the call, but no way to be sure. The rest of it, yes, prior to JP breaking down the bathroom door, would have sounded like it was coming from another room.

 

[girlhasnoname]

From that horror of a 'CC':

"Detective Hagen reports there were some tread patterns visible in blood that was in the entry way just inside the main door of the home next to James’ body. Detective Hagen reports the tread patterns appeared to be from tactical type boots."

So they kinda fibbed on that part also

ETA: structure of sentences

Okay how about stretched the truth LOL. Maybe it still wasn't clear enough for size or exact tread types. Hey, I'm trying to make reasonable debate instead of talking about pp.

ETA: Reasonable not fun debate, nothing about this was fun

 

[Rhenish]

JP brought the black gorilla tape with him for a purpose. It might have been part of his plan in case he needed it, or part of his fantasy on how the crime would go down in his planning. One thing I think possible in trying to understand his thinking, he wanted to use that tape.

I can’t think of a plan he had in advance to have Denise put the tape around Jayme’s mouth, since he could not have predicted they would be hiding together in the bathtub.

Denise didn’t go as fast as JP wanted, so he put the gun down on the sink area, and did it himself, so another clue on what a rush job he had in mind he was ready to make a mistake. It still worked out for him, though.

Why he wanted mom to put the tape on her own daughter is suspicious to me of one of two things 1) JP is sadistic and got thrill from it or 2) JP didn’t want to put the shotgun down. He got frustrated and did anyway.

I have wondered the same with regard to the taping and who did it. I, until we know otherwise, believe he did not want to put the gun down. I am sure Denise was a terrified shaking wreck and could not even manage the roll of tape, let alone taping her daughter and given her state of mind she probably did not seem as too much of a threat at that point and he felt it was safe to put the gun down and do the job himself. My God, I can you only imagine hiding in a tub behind a shower curtain when a monster breaks into the bathroom and rips down the shower curtain while holding a gun, that you know just killed your husband, is standing there in a mask, gloved and dressed in black. Sheer Terror.