AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[cluciano63]

Thank you. Interesting. I am wondering if the target was Diane why did they take Jayme? Seems they could have, sad as it is, shot her just like they shot her father and been free to take off.
Taking a 13 year old girl is a whole lot of baggage for somebody on the run.

Especially why take her at all? Unless she was with her mother when she was shot, therefore a witness, but then why kill her later?

 

[Cardinal47]

Gun. Clothing. Anything with blood on it.

Not sure if Jayme owns a phone, but if she does I'm sure they have the records at this point.

I think those phone records take some time to get. Trying to remember from a previous case I followed. Maybe it was MT. They took maybe 10 days.

 

[PommyMommy]

Replay of livestream if anyone is interested in watching the search effort:
WQOW Live Stream - WQOW

 

[Gardener1850]

I would have thought he would take a gun with him, if he did answer the door?

For all we know he might have had his gun when he went to the door. But if he looked out the little window in the wooden door to see who it was and the perp immediately shot him through the window then he never had a chance to use his gun. Then the perp or perps could break in and take his gun as well. Just speculating. I think this was likely a surprise attack. MOO.

 

[Mom24]

Okay I know some of you may not care for Mark Furhman at times including nyself but the thread was closed at the time he was being interviewed on Fox.

Since he spoke I can't get out of my mind what he said because it ALL made so much common sense and none of it I had ever even considered.

Anyway for those who may be interested I will try to post it in my own words for you.

He said he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. Here is the clear reason he gave. If James had been the intended target the mission would have been over right at the front door with no need to enter the home. They would have shot James and quickly left probably before Denise could have even seen who it was.

But he said they purposefully went inside to murder Denise. He also said the crime scene can reveal who may be the intended target. Such as if one victim suffered more gunshot wounds than another victim. Or if one victim had other type of injuries done by the killer beyond the gunshots themselves.

He said he does believe that Jayme has been killed and thinks the police know that too and know they are in recovery mode now.

He also said this which makes sense to me. He said the experts on the ground have the ability in less than a day's time to know if there are any vehicles in this county of 45000 that matches the 2 vehicles in question.

So he thinks the police already know the vehicles aren't from the county this happened in. He said they will go county by county searching the DMV data base looking for possible matches and interviewing anyone who may own the same type of vehicles crossing them off one by one.

So what do all of you think about this? I found all of it so facisinating. Jmo though

By his own logic, I disagree. If DC had been the target he would have shot her and left, not taken JC with him. He took the prize with him, JC. DC and JamesC were just obstacles that needed to be removed.
I'm inclined to think she's still alive. So much to go through to just grab a child and then kill her. After the AH case, I learned that when something like this happens the person who commits the crime has had perhaps years to plan it out so they're well prepared to carry out that plan.

 

[Seattle1]

Hi BeeGirl, This quote about tips, along with the previous quote above that asked searchers to be looking out for cellphones, clothing and guns sure makes it seem like so

Leads me to think one of the tips was a ping, and they are indeed looking a phone.

Welcome to Websleuths! I believe you're correct here.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree with Furhman's assessment.

However, as I always do, as long as no remains have been found, I continue to pray and hold out hope. This we must always do.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[human]

Okay I know some of you may not care for Mark Furhman at times including nyself but the thread was closed at the time he was being interviewed on Fox.

Since he spoke I can't get out of my mind what he said because it ALL made so much common sense and none of it I had ever even considered.

Anyway for those who may be interested I will try to post it in my own words for you.

He said he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. Here is the clear reason he gave. If James had been the intended target the mission would have been over right at the front door with no need to enter the home. They would have shot James and quickly left probably before Denise could have even seen who it was.

But he said they purposefully went inside to murder Denise. He also said the crime scene can reveal who may be the intended target. Such as if one victim suffered more gunshot wounds than another victim. Or if one victim had other type of injuries done by the killer beyond the gunshots themselves.

He said he does believe that Jayme has been killed and thinks the police know that too and know they are in recovery mode now.

He also said this which makes sense to me. He said the experts on the ground have the ability in less than a day's time to know if there are any vehicles in this county of 45000 that matches the 2 vehicles in question.

So he thinks the police already know the vehicles aren't from the county this happened in. He said they will go county by county searching the DMV data base looking for possible matches and interviewing anyone who may own the same type of vehicles crossing them off one by one.

So what do all of you think about this? I found all of it so facisinating. Jmo though

It may have been both, but it was not James alone that was the target. Why does he think she was targeted?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm just not so sure that Denise was the intended victim. Did he say then- why they took Jayme?

Aside from that, very sad to hear that he thinks Jayme has been killed. Sadly- I tend to agree, but hard to hear a professional say that.

I didn't hear him comment on why he thinks she was taken but I could have missed that part HM since my fur babies starting barking at the post lady for a few seconds or so.

Mark has many connections in law enforcement including FBI agents. Often he talks directly to those who are on the ground working the cases.

I got the impression this is what he is being told about the crime scene but that's just the impression I got since he usually does have contacts he has been speaking with that are there.

Jmo

 

[Cardinal47]

Hi BeeGirl, This quote about tips, along with the previous quote above that asked searchers to be looking out for cellphones, clothing and guns sure makes it seem like so




Leads me to think one of the tips was a ping, and they are indeed looking a phone.

You know I had the same thought. The phone pinged and they are looking for it. I would love to know how much emphasis was placed on the phone and what kind of clothing they are looking for.

 

[Cartie]

Surely a phone would not be pinging now. The battery would be flat. Or do you think that it was in that area when it last pinged

 

[CuriousMaine]

We have shots around 12:30. Probably the door being kicked open, too. Then it goes over 20 minutes before the 911 call. We gather there’s arguing at that point and I doubt the preceeding 20 minutes were much different. The intruder had to know the shots could have been heard and reported. The intruder had a gun so what went on for 20 minutes? What was up for discussion rather than just being taken?

Speculating/guessing:
-Looking for something of perceived value
-Looking for victim(s) hiding
-Neighbor got the time wrong
-Cleaning up
-Letting Jayme gather clothes, shoes, etc.
Edit: spelling

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

By his own logic, I disagree. If DC had been the target he would have shot her and left, not taken JC with him. He took the prize with him, JC. DC and JamesC were just obstacles that needed to be removed.
I'm inclined to think she's still alive. So much to go through to just grab a child and then kill her. After the AH case, I learned that when something like this happens the person who commits the crime has had perhaps years to plan it out so they're well prepared to carry out that plan.

Sorry if this obvious, but who is the AH case?

 

[MassGuy]

You know I had the same thought. The phone pinged and they are looking for it. I would love to know how much emphasis was placed on the phone and what kind of clothing they are looking for.

I don’t think they would have had to emphasize the phone, even if it was the main reason for the search.

No one is walking past a cell phone. If anything, people are too keyed in on minor items discovered during a search.

You’d always rather then be overcautious than risk overlooking something though.

 

[BeeGirl]

Hi BeeGirl, This quote about tips, along with the previous quote above that asked searchers to be looking out for cellphones, clothing and guns sure makes it seem like so




Leads me to think one of the tips was a ping, and they are indeed looking a phone.

I've spent way too much time thinking about Jayme's (admittedly theoretical) phone. In the Ashleigh Banfield interview, the sheriff said:

BANFIELD: Ok. So often times when a young person goes missing, the digital trail is almost like a popcorn trail, which leads me to the question about Jamie`s social media. 13-year-old girls are almost always on their phones or on some form of social media, I`m guessing, and I think it`s a good guess. You have been blanketing that angle. Have you found any information from her social media? Is it possible she has a phone with her?
FITZGERALD: I do not know the answer to the second part of the question, if she had the phone with her. I can tell you that we are looking at the social media platform. Again, that is why our partners in the FBI are so key in this, because they have the experts for smaller agencies like mine in a county of 44,000 people.
​

To me, this says many possible things:

1) Jayme had a phone that was issued by her parents and it is possible she has it in her possession.
2) Jayme had a phone that was issued by her parents and it is possible she does not have it in her possession.
3) Jayme was not issued a phone by her parents and he does not know if she was given one by someone else.
4) He does not know if anyone has ever given Jayme a phone or if she has one.

My understanding is that pings can solve a lot of questions. If she's ever logged into social media (or even email), that IP address was logged, and they'd know if it was from her home computer or a cell she was given. If it was a cell, they could use that data to then help ping.

But there are just so very many 'ifs'.

Just want that sweet girl to be safe. Whoever said it above is correct; she no longer has parents and we all need to rise up and take care of her. Whether that means searching, donating to find her or donating so she has a simpler life when she comes home.

ETA: Banfield Link

 

[bizzle2]

Okay I know some of you may not care for Mark Furhman at times including nyself but the thread was closed at the time he was being interviewed on Fox.

Since he spoke I can't get out of my mind what he said because it ALL made so much common sense and none of it I had ever even considered.

Anyway for those who may be interested I will try to post it in my own words for you.

He said he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. Here is the clear reason he gave. If James had been the intended target the mission would have been over right at the front door with no need to enter the home. They would have shot James and quickly left probably before Denise could have even seen who it was.

But he said they purposefully went inside to murder Denise. He also said the crime scene can reveal who may be the intended target. Such as if one victim suffered more gunshot wounds than another victim. Or if one victim had other type of injuries done by the killer beyond the gunshots themselves.

He said he does believe that Jayme has been killed and thinks the police know that too and know they are in recovery mode now.

He also said this which makes sense to me. He said the experts on the ground have the ability in less than a day's time to know if there are any vehicles in this county of 45000 that matches the 2 vehicles in question.

So he thinks the police already know the vehicles aren't from the county this happened in. He said they will go county by county searching the DMV data base looking for possible matches and interviewing anyone who may own the same type of vehicles crossing them off one by one.

So what do all of you think about this? I found all of it so facisinating. Jmo though

The process for finding the vehicles definitely makes sense. In a county of 45k there can't be more than 100 or so of those specific make/model/color/year vehicles, so I'm sure they've already checked out everyone local who owns one. Makes sense.

Interesting take on DC being the target. He has more LE experience than I do, but I don't necessarily agree. Just seems odd to me that Jayme would be taken if she wasn't the target. Would think that she'd just be killed along with her parents. Taking her presents a lot more problems than killing her in the home. (Brutal, I know, but thats my take.)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It may have been both, but it was not James alone that was the target. Why does he think she was targeted?

He doesnt know why but he firmly believes Denise was the intended target because if she wasnt and James was there would be no need for the killer to enter the home.

Imo that does make more sense to me. They wouldnt have to risk even entering the home since James was shot right at his door if the intended target was James all along.

Jmo

 

[gef the mongoose]

I guess it's something that they evidently didn't find which is the most cause for hope.

 

[Cardinal47]

Sorry if this obvious, but who is the AH case?

Abigail Hernandez. Kidnapped, held for almost a year then returned home.

 

[Mom24]

Sorry if this obvious, but who is the AH case?

GUILTY - NH - Abby Hernandez, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #15

Didn't realize we're able to use her name now (that's why I used her initials)