AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

[CuriousMaine]

A ballistics report would be good but not gonna happen. The more I think about this, the more prone I am to think ex-military, not to be negative about the military, of course. It's just that kicking in a door and taking out two people in seconds to minutes and not going inside more than 5 ft. definitely seems the killer knew what he was doing.

Yea, I know that's not going to happen until/unless trial. I think it might be the most telling piece of this puzzle in this case.

I admire and respect our military members (including family), however it's something I've considered as well. I don't think there is anything in particular that one more or less likely to be involved in a violent crime of this nature but to dismiss it would be silly, IMO.

 

[IceIce9]

In MN where I lived, there was a discussion of online instruction but the problem is in rural MN there is not reliable interent service.

I cannot even imagine the incredible issues with handing out computers. Who is responsible if they get damaged?

Did Jayme’s school hand out computers?

In the district where I live each elementary student started receiving an IPad to take home several years ago. Middle school and up, they receive a Microsoft Surface Go.

Who is responsible if they get lost or damaged? It is the taxpayers, of course.

When I was in school we weren’t even provided with a scientific calculator! Had to purchase our own

 

[CuriousMaine]

I am viewing the firearm and shooting in the same way I would view tire tracks if they existed. just a example but a car with four different tires with one being a different size would say something, just as four alike with even wear would say something else. the shooting no matter how perfect or unperfect is saying something.

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking. I think you're definitely on to something, but I haven't found a distinction yet within my circle of friends/family. I know people (younger & older) who collect older rifles and the latest-tech handguns and everything in between. Different tools for different jobs. Others have just one or two firearms for only deer hunting and/or self defense/carry), but again, it varies and doesn't seem to consistently apply to an gender, age range, line of work, etc.

Is it more the action type or caliber? Both?

What do you think some of these popular firearms would reveal about a person/perp?

- 9mm semi-auto/striker-fired handgun (Glock, S&W, Ruger, Walther, Sig, etc)
-.45 (1911 style) hammer-fired handgun (Kimber, CZ, Sig, Beretta, etc.)
-.380 semi-auto handgun
-1940's M1 Carbine (.30 caliber) rifle
- AR 15 (556/223 or 300 blackout, etc.)
-.22 Revolver
-.38 Revolver
-Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun

 

[Oakland CA]

When I was in school we weren’t even provided with a scientific calculator! Had to purchase our own

We weren't even allowed our own calculator.
Slide rule, log books and long drawn out calculations to come up with the answer.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

I have no idea what those popular firearms are! I have never held any of those! No guns in our home.

 

[MommaK43]

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking. I think you're definitely on to something, but I haven't found a distinction yet within my circle of friends/family. I know people (younger & older) who collect older rifles and the latest-tech handguns and everything in between. Different tools for different jobs. Others have just one or two firearms for only deer hunting and/or self defense/carry), but again, it varies and doesn't seem to consistently apply to an gender, age range, line of work, etc.

Is it more the action type or caliber? Both?

What do you think some of these popular firearms would reveal about a person/perp?

- 9mm semi-auto/striker-fired handgun (Glock, S&W, Ruger, Walther, Sig, etc)
-.45 (1911 style) hammer-fired handgun (Kimber, CZ, Sig, Beretta, etc.)
-.380 semi-auto handgun
-1940's M1 Carbine (.30 caliber) rifle
- AR 15 (556/223 or 300 blackout, etc.)
-.22 Revolver
-.38 Revolver
-Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun

9mm easiest to handle for the average person, 380 and 22, (got a 380 lcp as my boot gun) nah, ar too bulky for this, 12 gauge def possibility (one shot multiple projectiles), 38 not me but I don’t like any revolvers, personal preference. 45, gotta be able to handle the kick back. Had a .40 compact and sold it. Too big for my tiny hiney to conceal carry even compact and I didn’t want that kinda kick back in a bad situation. Jmo, depends on person and experience tho everyone is different.

 

[MommaK43]

9mm easiest to handle for the average person, 380 and 22, (got a 380 lcp as my boot gun) nah, ar too bulky for this, 12 gauge def possibility (one shot multiple projectiles), 38 not me but I don’t like any revolvers, personal preference. 45, gotta be able to handle the kick back. Had a .40 compact and sold it. Too big for my tiny hiney to conceal carry even compact and I didn’t want that kinda kick back in a bad situation. Jmo, depends on person and experience tho everyone is different. My concealed carry for work is a 9mm Taurus I’ve had for YEARS. I do like the new single stack glock 43s bc the grip isn’t as wide as the double, sorry I have kid sized hands, literally.

 

[MommaK43]

That was suppose to be an edit...oops

 

[MommaK43]

Anyone ever think about a break action shotgun, double barrel? Won’t leave casings, shells, rounds...whatever we are calling them, until breached and manually disengaged?

 

[CuriousMaine]

referring to earlier post about viewing....I don't think LE could say do or don't short of a court order.

about the firearm... my thinkings about it are simply did the killer have the skill, did they have the personality to have had put the dedication into gaining the skill and maintaining the skill. also firearm type could point to male or female, large person or smaller person, older or younger, flip temper killing or planned. some firearms are going to require more skill, some are going to require better sight, some are going to require certain physical things more than others. for example I have the skill to shoot a semi auto pistol, I don't have the wrist strength any longer to safely use one, I have no problem shooting, it is the stopping, I can stop when the clip is empty, the recoil causes me to fire it as fast as it chambers. if the results of my shooting like that was viewed it would say something about me. I think the firearm type, the ammo type, the manner of firing are screaming at least some clues and that LE knows a whole lot more than we do. MOO.

Yes, all good points. Precision could speak to experience, etc. I do see that too. Weak wrists and more complicated take-down for cleaning/more moving parts, often compel women to choose a revolver over a striker-fired. I don't know any men with smaller hands using/carrying/buying a .45 1911, etc. I usually see them choosing a .380 or 9mm polymer.

I don't see many older people in the hunting community using AR's but they are becoming more popular due to they (potentially) light-weight, modular/modifiable components, etc. I know older folks who poo-poo the 70 year old "newer" technology, but I also know farmers who prefer to use the AR over a classic bolt action to dispatch coyotes at night; with a silencer and 30 rounds - no reloading and neighbors and livestock are not bothered by the sound.

Investigators know what caliber was used, and maybe the action type(?). IDK how far ballistics/forensics science has come but I'm reassured the FBI lab in Quantico is involved and know what can be known. I think it's unlikely they know the model/brand but maybe they have clues there too.

MOO.

 

[Cryptic]

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking. I think you're definitely on to something,

What do you think some of these popular firearms would reveal about a person/perp?

- 9mm semi-auto/striker-fired handgun (Glock, S&W, Ruger, Walther, Sig, etc)
-.45 (1911 style) hammer-fired handgun (Kimber, CZ, Sig, Beretta, etc.)
-.380 semi-auto handgun
-1940's M1 Carbine (.30 caliber) rifle
- AR 15 (556/223 or 300 blackout, etc.)
-.22 Revolver
-.38 Revolver
-Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun

I also think the possibility is interesting. As for caliber's, perhaps the following general (key word) could be considered. It might be possible to draw general conclusions from some calibers. Others are too generic:

- .38 revolver. Older style weapon found mainly with fire arms enthusiasts and well, people like me who are not fire arms enthusiasts, but purchased one "years ago". Maybe... traditionally thinking rural perpetrator acting out of respect / disrespect grudge motives?

- M1 Carbine: Collector's fire arm. Most fire arms collectors have traditional views and more likely to take respect / disrespect seriously.

.45 1911: Collector weapon. More traditional owner. Respect / disrespect taken seriously. Other .45 models could mean fie arms enthusiast / traditional respect / disrespect issues. Or... maybe overkill, macho / alpha male personality type perpetrator.





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[Lillymac]

Anyone ever think about a break action shotgun, double barrel? Won’t leave casings, shells, rounds...whatever we are calling them, until breached and manually disengaged?

I'd go with sawed off dbl. barrel 12 gauge.

 

[MommaK43]

Yes, all good points. Precision could speak to experience, etc. I do see that too. Weak wrists and more complicated take-down for cleaning/more moving parts, often compel women to choose a revolver over a striker-fired. I don't know any men with smaller hands using/carrying/buying a .45 1911, etc. I usually see them choosing a .380 or 9mm polymer.

I don't see many older people in the hunting community using AR's but they are becoming more popular due to they (potentially) light-weight, modular/modifiable components, etc. I know older folks who poo-poo the 70 year old "newer" technology, but I also know farmers who prefer to use the AR over a classic bolt action to dispatch coyotes at night; with a silencer and 30 rounds - no reloading and neighbors and livestock are not bothered by the sound.

Investigators know what caliber was used, and maybe the action type(?). IDK how far ballistics/forensics science has come but I'm reassured the FBI lab in Quantico is involved and know what can be known. I think it's unlikely they know the model/brand but maybe they have clues there too.

MOO.

I love ballistics! They know weapons used, but won’t say for investigation sake. Doing investigations, you never show all your cards...me daily! Some things u hold back and tell the appropriate folks. Story of of life tbh!

 

[1987]

LE knows the skill level. I think a hunter shoots different than a paper target shooter. I think people have habits that will show in any cal and in any type.

 

[MommaK43]

I'd go with sawed off dbl. barrel 12 gauge.

Thought saw off too actually, loud as heck!

 

[MommaK43]

LE knows the skill level. I think a hunter shoots different than a paper target shooter. I think people have habits that will show in any cal and in any type.

Exactly! I’m pretty dang skilled but in times of deserperation, I’m don’t if I could hit the broad side of a barn in a bad moment. Been in that situation, but didn’t have to shoot. I will admit, even seasoned, I was scared to death. That’s when a shotgun comes into play, it is the best for home defense tho!

 

[lonetraveler]

What a sweet pic of Jayme and her pup. The window on the door is pretty big. I wonder if the perp just shot right through the window as James approached the door.

I was thinking the very same situation, ie., James went to look through the window to see who was at the door and was shot in the face, point blank range right through the window.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking. I think you're definitely on to something, but I haven't found a distinction yet within my circle of friends/family. I know people (younger & older) who collect older rifles and the latest-tech handguns and everything in between. Different tools for different jobs. Others have just one or two firearms for only deer hunting and/or self defense/carry), but again, it varies and doesn't seem to consistently apply to an gender, age range, line of work, etc.

Is it more the action type or caliber? Both?

What do you think some of these popular firearms would reveal about a person/perp?

- 9mm semi-auto/striker-fired handgun (Glock, S&W, Ruger, Walther, Sig, etc)
-.45 (1911 style) hammer-fired handgun (Kimber, CZ, Sig, Beretta, etc.)
-.380 semi-auto handgun
-1940's M1 Carbine (.30 caliber) rifle
- AR 15 (556/223 or 300 blackout, etc.)
-.22 Revolver
-.38 Revolver
-Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun

Some of those I have. I prefer the older Winchester 1300 to the Mossberg, though. I had a chance about 20 years ago to buy a Colt Python .357 with 4" barrel, like new condition, for $750. I kick myself for not getting it. That would have been my only revolver.

 

[Queencitylaydee]

I wonder if the aunt moved abruptly or if it was planned..to go from a small school to a larger school is a big deal for kids...also Cameron Middle is rated higher than Riverside according to greatschools.org

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Wow, my little canadian brain is sure getting a good education in guns...I’m fascinated by how “mainstream” (not sure how to put it) guns are down there. I know there are people up here far more educated in guns then me, or the average canuck i would think, but your gun laws are so vastly different, and I find myself somewhat envious how easily it seems you guys can obtain guns. It’s just not that simple here, especially for a handgun, which, as a non-hunter is what I’d be interested in. I would just like the ability to protect myself in my own home. I don’t even have that right to shoot anyone breaking into my home who might wish to do me harm.

I’ve never shot a gun, nor even held one, but I sure would like to try it out!

I respect your “castle” laws, or the “make my day” law, as I’ve heard it referenced in Colorado I believe. I wish we had that right.