GUILTY WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - *Arrest* #2

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Since I don't think she will ever be found, If burial was his means, I think it would be very deep. I've never understood why so many bodies have been disposed of in shallow graves.
 
Snoods said:
I'm so sorry, I hope you're feeling better. . .
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Went to Dr. but he ordered an antibiotic that pharmacy can't have ready until tomorrow. I didn't know that in time to contact Dr. before he left for the day so my head is still spinning.

Snoods said:
. . .BBM Here's what's always bugged me about that. If someone died in my apartment from an overdose, rough sex, whatever, and I was worried about the police coming to my place because of my scads of child *advertiser censored* and drugs, logically I would get rid of the child *advertiser censored* (computer if necessary) and ditch the drugs somewhere. Then I would call police.

But here's what he did. He instead chose to get rid of the body in a long drawn out all day affair, (in which he was caught in lies about with LE) and KEEP the CP and drugs. Even KNOWING that as the last person to be with Kelly, he is going to be the prime suspect and LE would be searching his place.

Why not get rid of the body, the drugs, and oh yeah the explicit child *advertiser censored*. . .
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I have to admit that puzzles me too. Even if he was innocent (which the cadaver dog hitting on his door seems to make unlikely) you would think he would see the need to at least get the drugs out of the apartment knowing that LE might come calling again to search for clues to Kelly's whereabouts. It almost seems like some weird sort of drug brain burnout.

Snoods said:
. .MKE, a poster here who knows him, has said he thinks he's smarter than police and everyone else, . . .
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He probably is pretty intelligent or at least was before all the drug use. I know someone like that description in many ways (has taught himself some programming too) and he will sometimes read something of the law online and then think he is then something of an expert on that particular subject and usually thinks he is smarter than anyone else about whatever is being discussed. I mention that because it is possible the POI (as named such in MSM) thinks that no search of his residence would be allowed to stand in court. I read in a news article recently that he is trying to get the search declared to be not based on cause and thus get it thrown out. . . . all the drugs and *advertiser censored* videos would be unusable then.

Snoods said:
. . .I've always said he buried her somewhere he knows, perhaps somewhere close to a vacation he took. Also, he used to work in Boston. I believe the body is somewhere between where he lives and Boston, since he used to make that drive. . .
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I came across one of those info sites that said he lived in or near that area too for a time (nearby town to the one you mentioned) so I suppose it is possible.
 
bwt42 said:
Since I don't think she will ever be found, If burial was his means, I think it would be very deep. I've never understood why so many bodies have been disposed of in shallow graves.
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BBM Perhaps time restraints, lack of planning, don't really care if the body is found, want the body to be found?

You may be right about Kelly though, bwt42, you may be right.
 
bwt42 said:
. . . I've never understood why so many bodies have been disposed of in shallow graves.
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All I know is that a quick web search on the phrase 'buried in shallow grave' turned up several pages of results about victims found buried in shallow graves. It seems to be much preferred to deep graves. I can think of several reasons shallow is considered better than deep but the main thing for now is that it is the preferred way for victim body burial and thus I am trying to guesstimate an average time length required for digging said 'shallow grave'.
 
docwho3 said:
How long would it take to dig a 'shallow grave' about as deep as in this news video?
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Body-found-buried-in-west-Detroit-backyard/20180520
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That's considered a "shallow grave?" I guess I'd be a lousy murdered body grave digger because that looks pretty deep to me. Shoot, that would take hours. What do you think? And you're talking one coked up dude with a shovel. And that's without hitting any rocks or tree roots in the particular place he's digging and having to start over.
 
Snoods said:
That's considered a "shallow grave?" I guess I'd be a lousy murdered body grave digger because that looks pretty deep to me. Shoot, that would take hours. What do you think?
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That is one the deep edge of what I would consider a 'shallow grave' but it is described as a 'shallow grave' in the report (it is less than the traditional 6 ft.) so I thought if we went with a time length to dig one like that it would certainly not be more time than that for the real grave for our victim as I doubt he went deeper.
 
docwho3 said:
That is one the deep edge of what I would consider a 'shallow grave' but it is described as a 'shallow grave' in the report (it is less than the traditional 6 ft.) so I thought if we went with a time length to dig one like that it would certainly not be more time than that for the real grave for our victim as I doubt he went deeper.
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The type of soil determines how long it would take. I have buried seven dogs (pets) over the years in wooden boxes around 4' to 5' deep. 2 1/2' wide & 4' long. It would take a couple of hours in clay or about a hour in sand or loam.
 
Sorry, just started reading about this case--was it ever made known what kind of drugs were found at KZ's apartment? (Trying to determine what state of mind he might have been in.)
 
SlothSleuth said:
Sorry, just started reading about this case--was it ever made known what kind of drugs were found at KZ's apartment? (Trying to determine what state of mind he might have been in.)
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Cocaine, marijuana and prescription pills.

Welcome to our group!
 
Snoods said:
Cocaine, marijuana and prescription pills.

Welcome to our group!
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Thank you for the info and for the welcome!

Such a sad case...I used the same dating website a few years ago when I was new to a city. It's scary to think how easily it can go so wrong :(
 
Hey y'all... I am new to this case but wanted to offer some thoughts on digging and other things ...

I have dug a hole for an in ground pond/waterfall. I had to dig a hole about 3 feet deep by 4 feet by 5 feet and it tool ALL AFTERNOON. And this was just in the back yard. You dont want to dig with tree roots etc.

If the suspect was digging at night he would need light(s) and would need to be in a place where lights and someone digging would not be seen.

Is there the possibility that a hole was dug somewhere ahead of time at at leisure?

Burying a body can, actually, preserve more evidence than just leaving it out on the surface (where it will decay faster, get broken up, scattered, etc.)


A lot of times when people drive around "randomly" they actually follow some familiar pattern and don't go as far as they think they do. They tend to loop back, etc.
 
Welcome Carla! Glad you could make it here. :cheerful:
 
The time-digging posts have brought to light that different people in differing conditions require different amounts of time. In this case we have a 38 yrs old man after a night of partying ('. . .At a court appearance for the drug charges, a Milwaukee Police Department detective testified that Zocco had told her he and Dwyer partied together the night before she went missing, drinking, smoking marijuana and doing lines of cocaine. . . ')
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/11/19/where-kelly-dwyer-missing-milwaukee-woman

Bearing in mind that's from the mouth of the POI so maybe it happened that they partied and maybe not. All we know for certain is that she went into that building alive (as vid cams show according to LE per MSM) but never left under her own power.

So how long does it take a 38 yrs old guy that normally works from a computer and who may or may not be 'under the influence' to dig said hole?

I guess I am looking for 2 numbers, the most time it might have taken him and the least time and maybe then we can use those numbers try help establish 2 distance radius numbers from his apartment to her burial place and fit that in with the drive time round trip and factor in car cleaning etc. and maybe . . . just maybe there will only be a handful of places in that radius that would allow uninterrupted work for the time needed and have soil loose enough to dig to further narrow down the search. And maybe there will be some place in that radius that he is already known to be familiar with and so on.

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Named POI link:
'Prosecutors have called him a suspect. Police say he’s a person of interest. Kris Zocco is the man police say was the last person to see 27-year-old Kelly Dwyer before she disappeared last fall. . .'
http://fox6now.com/2014/02/18/man-w...ffers-insights-on-kelly-dwyers-disappearance/

'Kris Zocco, 38, was described by a prosecutor as a "person of interest" in the search for Kelly Dwyer, though he has not been charged in her disappearance. . .'
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...rges-b99131323z1-229857461.html#ixzz2jQOBpvTB


POI Age link:
http://fox6now.com/2013/11/06/kris-zocco-posts-bail-wednesday-released-from-milw-co-jail/
 
Carla Lashelle said:
. . .I have dug a hole for an in ground pond/waterfall. I had to dig a hole about 3 feet deep by 4 feet by 5 feet and it tool ALL AFTERNOON. And this was just in the back yard. You dont want to dig with tree roots etc. . .
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How many hours do you think that was then? (Didn't want to just assume that my idea of all afternoon and yours would be the same.)

Carla Lashelle said:
. . .If the suspect was digging at night he would need light(s) . . .
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Car headlights maybe or flashlights . . hmm if he didn't have enough flashlights and if he could not get headlights on the place then he might have had to buy flashlights somewhere? Maybe a store in the right area would have video of him buying stuff?

Carla Lashelle said:
. . .Is there the possibility that a hole was dug somewhere ahead of time at at leisure? . . .
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Ohhhh I had not thought of that but that sounds premeditated and makes me wonder why set up all that effort? (Not arguing but just puzzling it out in my head.)

Carla Lashelle said:
. . .A lot of times when people drive around "randomly" they actually follow some familiar pattern and don't go as far as they think they do. They tend to loop back, etc.
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You have brought up some good thoughts. Thank you.
 
Carla Lashelle said:
Hey y'all... I am new to this case but wanted to offer some thoughts on digging and other things ...

I have dug a hole for an in ground pond/waterfall. I had to dig a hole about 3 feet deep by 4 feet by 5 feet and it tool ALL AFTERNOON. And this was just in the back yard. You dont want to dig with tree roots etc.

If the suspect was digging at night he would need light(s) and would need to be in a place where lights and someone digging would not be seen.

Is there the possibility that a hole was dug somewhere ahead of time at at leisure?

Burying a body can, actually, preserve more evidence than just leaving it out on the surface (where it will decay faster, get broken up, scattered, etc.)


A lot of times when people drive around "randomly" they actually follow some familiar pattern and don't go as far as they think they do. They tend to loop back, etc.
Click to expand...


Welcome to our group, Carla!

Thanks for the hands on experience! Now we need someone to step up that has actually dug a grave in the dark of the night to bury a murder victim....:floorlaugh: C'mon, we won't tell.....

I don't believe this murder was premeditated. I also think that spur of the moment digging of deep graves would be a difficult thing to do. I brought up the tree roots thing, too. They are everywhere, for people that haven't dug holes before. It would have to be far away from any trees. And random large rocks. I think that's why you DO see so many shallow graves for murder victims.

To answer your other question, he did have daylight hours to do this. He was seen on surveillance camera leaving his condo at 6:15 pm and didn't return until 2:41 pm the next afternoon. So it could have been daylight or night.
 
docwho3 said:
So how long does it take a 38 yrs old guy that normally works from a computer and who may or may not be 'under the influence' to dig said hole?

I guess I am looking for 2 numbers, the most time it might have taken him and the least time and maybe then we can use those numbers try help establish 2 distance radius numbers from his apartment to her burial place and fit that in with the drive time round trip and factor in car cleaning etc. and maybe . . . just maybe there will only be a handful of places in that radius that would allow uninterrupted work for the time needed and have soil loose enough to dig to further narrow down the search. And maybe there will be some place in that radius that he is already known to be familiar with and so on.

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RSBM I steadfastly believe he went somewhere he knew, you just don't take off with a dead body in your car all "skipping to your lou."

I'm guessing it would take him at least 4 hours to dig the grave. That's 16 hours left. He either drove a long-*advertiser censored* way because he knew of a perfect spot, or he made many failed attempts because of the problems cited in previous posts.
 
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